I Need Guidance

[Noobstorm]

The brain gives it instructions to make it move.

This is something you have learned.
You can't know anything about the brain from experiencing.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say, "The experience was that It just moved" ??

From that point of view yes it just moved.

[vinceschubert]

From that point of view yes it just moved.

So from the same point of view, can an I possibly exist ?

[Noobstorm]

From that point of view yes it just moved.

So from the same point of view, can an I possibly exist ?

No since it's not being thought about.

[vinceschubert]

No since it's not being thought about.

So the I is a product of thought ?

[Noobstorm]

No since it's not being thought about.

So the I is a product of thought ?

Yes.

[vinceschubert]

vince asked; So the I is a product of thought ?
Ali replied; Yes.

So, Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

[Noobstorm]

vince asked; So the I is a product of thought ?
Ali replied; Yes.

So, Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

There is no "me" separate from life.. but this human is "me", just like what I'm typing on is a "keyboard."

[vinceschubert]

There is no "me" separate from life..

What do you mean by this ? Tell more.

but this human is "me"

more info please...

just like what I'm typing on is a "keyboard."

Isn't "keyboard" just a label for that arrangements of plastic and rubber and circuit board and other bits and pieces ?
If you take it apart till all of the pieces are scattered over the floor, do you find any essence of keyboard ?

[Noobstorm]

There is no "me" separate from life..

What do you mean by this ? Tell more.

but this human is "me"

more info please...

I suppose there is no me controlling everything.. but this specific human is my self if that makes any sense.

just like what I'm typing on is a "keyboard."

Isn't "keyboard" just a label for that arrangements of plastic and rubber and circuit board and other bits and pieces ?
If you take it apart till all of the pieces are scattered over the floor, do you find any essence of keyboard ?

Yes it is a label. Once it's taken apart there is no essence of keyboard.

[vinceschubert]

Yes it is a label. Once it's taken apart there is no essence of keyboard.

Would you say that the same thing applies for a self ?

but this specific human is my self if that makes any sense.

What about applying it to human ? Is that just another label ?

I suppose there is no me controlling everything..

Beautiful, does this leave you appreciating the trust that everything occurs as it is needed ?

[Noobstorm]

Yes it is a label. Once it's taken apart there is no essence of keyboard.

Would you say that the same thing applies for a self ?

Yes.

but this specific human is my self if that makes any sense.

What about applying it to human ? Is that just another label ?

Yes.

I suppose there is no me controlling everything..

Beautiful, does this leave you appreciating the trust that everything occurs as it is needed ?

No.

Sorry I am trying to investigate this, and I keep thinking about the certainty of my existence. Anyway, the I label is pointing to the human which is controlling everything. I don't see anything wrong with that....


This human thinks = I (referring to this human) thinks
This human's characteristics = I (referring to this human's) characteristics.

Same thing?

I believe the "self" to be this specific human being which is being aware of.

[vinceschubert]

vinceschubert wrote:

Noobstorm wrote:I suppose there is no me controlling everything..

Beautiful, does this leave you appreciating the trust that everything occurs as it is needed ?


No.

i don't get it, you say that you see that there isn't a self controlling everything, and everything still happened. That would suggest that there never has been a me controlling things, true ?

I keep thinking about the certainty of my existence

Is that a case of thoughts thinking about other thoughts (those that say you Must exist) ?

I label is pointing to the human which is controlling everything. I don't see anything wrong with that....

Nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't claim the Label for the actuality. (the organisms' ability to take care of itself)

I believe the "self" to be this specific human being which is being aware of.

Didn't we establish that both "self" and "human" were just labels ?

[Noobstorm]

vinceschubert wrote:

Noobstorm wrote:I suppose there is no me controlling everything..

Beautiful, does this leave you appreciating the trust that everything occurs as it is needed ?


No.

i don't get it, you say that you see that there isn't a self controlling everything, and everything still happened. That would suggest that there never has been a me controlling things, true ?

Yes, I don't "know" this though.. I haven't taken a step beyond intellectual understanding.

I keep thinking about the certainty of my existence

Is that a case of thoughts thinking about other thoughts (those that say you Must exist) ?

Yes, I is a thought and it is being thought about.

I label is pointing to the human which is controlling everything. I don't see anything wrong with that....

Nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't claim the Label for the actuality. (the organisms' ability to take care of itself)

Okay, thank you for the clarification.

I believe the "self" to be this specific human being which is being aware of.

Didn't we establish that both "self" and "human" were just labels ?

Ok. Just empty labels.

[vinceschubert]

Yes, I don't "know" this though.. I haven't taken a step beyond intellectual understanding.

You can only "know" what you experience for yourself, yes ?
Have you ever had an experience of an 'I' ? or can you only arrive at a deduction of an 'I', a concept of an 'I' ?

[Noobstorm]

Yes, I don't "know" this though.. I haven't taken a step beyond intellectual understanding.

You can only "know" what you experience for yourself, yes ?
Have you ever had an experience of an 'I' ? or can you only arrive at a deduction of an 'I', a concept of an 'I' ?

Sometimes it feels alive.. but maybe I'm just imagining that.