Breaking the Addiction to a Separate Self

[Lee0101]

Hi Kay,

It has been a busy past few days.

What is it exactly that is ‘frustrated’?

A 'me' would be frustrated in thought, but in AE, it is just sensation labeled as 'frustration'.

So labelsensationcolourthoughts are known, but is frustration known?

No, an entity call frustration is not known nor does it exist. sensations+thoughts / labels = 'frustration'.

By just sitting and looking at this, it seems like something released.

Lovely! How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

It feels really good to be able to see and watch thought when they appear. Seeing thoughts and labels for what they are makes it much lighter. Thinking there was an actual 'me' and the thoughts being 'mine', has been very painful mentally and physically. When we started our dialogue, I felt like a rope that had continued to be twisted until it started knotting up. Now it seems like the rope has been twisted in the opposite direction where the strands are separating and there is no rope! LOL. Things continue lightening up. I welcome and say 'yes' to what arises. A completely different experience to life.

Did these ‘memories’ actually happen in the past, or are they appearing in this current moment? Where is the proof that there was a ‘last birthday’ and that it happened ‘last year’? Are not the images and thoughts ABOUT a past simply appearing now, in this current moment?

The memories are happening in the current moment. Everything only happens now. Conditioning and habit speak about memories and past.

I want you to think of a time when you ate ice-cream. Or when you ate your last meal and think of what you ate.
When are the thoughts and images about an ice-cream actually appearing? Are they not appearing in this current moment?

Yes, only occurring now. By conditioning, it 'seems' like it happened 'then', but everything happens now. Very subtle...

What exactly is ‘experiencing’ experience? For there to be an experiencer of experience makes for two, which points to separation.

Only experiencing is experiencing experience. haha. There is not an entity or a separate someone experiencing as an 'experiencer'.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found, other than the AE of sound? (‘what can be heard’)?
2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only AE sound?
3) Can an 'I', ‘ear’, ‘body’, ‘person’ be found? Or are these statements thoughts about an 'I', ‘ear’, ‘body’, ‘person’?
What do you find?

1. No, only AE of sound prior to the labels of certain 'things' labeled as the 'heard'.
2. That which is hearing cannot be found, only AE of sound.
3. In truth, 'I', 'ear', 'body', 'person', 'me' cannot be found. The labels are only thoughts after AE. Only sensation or AE is real. Labels that follow AE are thoughts used for communication.

Look very carefully. Where does ‘hearing’ end and sound begin? Can a dividing line between ‘hearer’ and sound be found? Or is there just hearer/sound?

There is no edge or dividing line where hearing and sound begin. There is only AE of 'hearing' (label) in the present moment. AE is continuous and undivided. AE does not stop, only thoughts start and stop as when waking up and going to sleep.

If that is all, and no IIf that is all, and no INHERENT HEARER is found . . . would anything that is suggested as the hearer be anything other than speculation / ideas / beliefs / thoughts etc?
is found . . . would anything that is suggested as the hearer be anything other than speculation / ideas / beliefs / thoughts etc?

No, no INHERENT HEARER at all, only HEAR-ING. Only thoughts create labels that point to AE. Only AE is reality.

It feels so good to be able to confidently write this from AE, and not repeating or 'parroting' this from something I read!

Identifying with thoughts and labels are so habitual, they have seemed to be so real, and 'me' and 'mine.

What is it exactly that is “identifying with thoughts and labels”?

Only a seeming 'me' can identify with anything. The false 'I', 'Me' and 'Mine' 'identifies'.

What a great exercise and post.

Thank you!

Lee

[forgetmenot]

Hi Lee,

What is it exactly that is ‘frustrated’?

A 'me' would be frustrated in thought, but in AE, it is just sensation labeled as 'frustration'.

Yes, and ‘me’ and the contents of the label ‘me’ are simply the AE of thought.

By just sitting and looking at this, it seems like something released.

Lovely! How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

It feels really good to be able to see and watch thought when they appear. Seeing thoughts and labels for what they are makes it much lighter. Thinking there was an actual 'me' and the thoughts being 'mine', has been very painful mentally and physically. When we started our dialogue, I felt like a rope that had continued to be twisted until it started knotting up. Now it seems like the rope has been twisted in the opposite direction where the strands are separating and there is no rope! LOL. Things continue lightening up. I welcome and say 'yes' to what arises. A completely different experience to life.

Wonderful! A good exercise to see what actually IS as opposed to what thought says IS…

For every thought that comes up, and to determine whether it is referring to actual experience or whether it is pure fantasy, replace the thought with “blahblahblah” and check whether what it was referring to remains.

For example, frustration.

Close your eyes (or leave them open) and bring the story about being “frustrated” to the forefront, and notice the sensation and images that seemingly go hand in hand with that thought.

Now replace the thought “I am frustrated” with “blahblahblah”. Look at experience, with thought only saying “blahbahblah.” Is there a “frustration” without thought saying so?

If yes, that thought is referring to actual experience. That’s a “bare bones” thought, with all additional story layers stripped.

If no, then you know that the thought has added “virtual layers.” It’s fantasy, and it isn’t confirmed as actual experience, because what it was saying didn’t remain when the thought was replaced with “blahblahblah.”

You can do that exercise with any thought that appears to see what if a thought is a ‘bare bone’ thought or is a thought that has added ‘virtual layers’ to AE.

Test it out and let me know what you noticed.

I want you to think of a time when you ate ice-cream. Or when you ate your last meal and think of what you ate.
When are the thoughts and images about an ice-cream actually appearing? Are they not appearing in this current moment?

Yes, only occurring now. By conditioning, it 'seems' like it happened 'then', but everything happens now. Very subtle...

Yes, and if colour and taste labelled as “chocolate/vanilla ice-cream” is not the current experience, then those thoughts and mental images are pointing to pure fantasy. Can you see this?

What exactly is ‘experiencing’ experience? For there to be an experiencer of experience makes for two, which points to separation.

Only experiencing is experiencing experience. haha. There is not an entity or a separate someone experiencing as an 'experiencer'.

Experience cannot experience itself. For that to be possible means that it would have to be outside of itself. Experience experiencing implies a subject and experiencing something. There is no separation.

Refer to the hearing exercise to see what I am pointing at.

2. That which is hearing cannot be found, only AE of sound.

Exactly, so is there anyone/anything that is actually hearing sound?

Look very carefully. Where does ‘hearing’ end and sound begin? Can a dividing line between ‘hearer’ and sound be found? Or is there just hearer/sound?

There is no edge or dividing line where hearing and sound begin. There is only AE of 'hearing' (label) in the present moment. AE is continuous and undivided. AE does not stop, only thoughts start and stop as when waking up and going to sleep.

There is AE of sound. For it to be AE of hearing there would have to be a hearer!
Do ears hear?

Yes, experience itself is not divided. It is only thought that divides experience into different categories and then labels it sound, taste, thought etc and then sub categorises those categories.

It feels so good to be able to confidently write this from AE, and not repeating or 'parroting' this from something I read!

You are doing great, Lee!

Identifying with thoughts and labels are so habitual, they have seemed to be so real, and 'me' and 'mine.

What is it exactly that is “identifying with thoughts and labels”?

Only a seeming 'me' can identify with anything. The false 'I', 'Me' and 'Mine' 'identifies'.

Hmmm….Have a look at this. How can an illusion identify with anything?

What is the AE of “Only a seeming 'me' can identify with anything. The false 'I', 'Me' and 'Mine' 'identifies'.”

With love, Kay

[Lee0101]

Hi Kay,

For every thought that comes up, and to determine whether it is referring to actual experience or whether it is pure fantasy, replace the thought with “blahblahblah” and check whether what it was referring to remains.

For example, frustration.

Close your eyes (or leave them open) and bring the story about being “frustrated” to the forefront, and notice the sensation and images that seemingly go hand in hand with that thought.

Now replace the thought “I am frustrated” with “blahblahblah”. Look at experience, with thought only saying “blahbahblah.” Is there a “frustration” without thought saying so?

If yes, that thought is referring to actual experience. That’s a “bare bones” thought, with all additional story layers stripped.

If no, then you know that the thought has added “virtual layers.” It’s fantasy, and it isn’t confirmed as actual experience, because what it was saying didn’t remain when the thought was replaced with “blahblahblah.”

You can do that exercise with any thought that appears to see what if a thought is a ‘bare bone’ thought or is a thought that has added ‘virtual layers’ to AE.

Test it out and let me know what you noticed.

This was a good exercise. Everything describing AE is blahblahblah. The only accurate thing to do is to look at AE and remain silent. Referring to or using any word is thought.

I want you to think of a time when you ate ice-cream. Or when you ate your last meal and think of what you ate.
When are the thoughts and images about an ice-cream actually appearing? Are they not appearing in this current moment?

Yes, only occurring now. By conditioning, it 'seems' like it happened 'then', but everything happens now. Very subtle...

Yes, and if colour and taste labelled as “chocolate/vanilla ice-cream” is not the current experience, then those thoughts and mental images are pointing to pure fantasy. Can you see this?

Yes, I can definitely see this. At one time I used to think that thoughts were the problem, and the mind needed to stay silent. I have seen that it is not possible for the thoughts to stay silent all the time, nor is it an 'enemy'. There's nothing wrong with the fantasy as long as it is seen as that. If we did not use descriptive thought or fantasy, we would only remain silent.

2. That which is hearing cannot be found, only AE of sound.

Exactly, so is there anyone/anything that is actually hearing sound?

No, there is no particular anyone nor anything that is hearing sound.

Look very carefully. Where does ‘hearing’ end and sound begin? Can a dividing line between ‘hearer’ and sound be found? Or is there just hearer/sound?

There is no edge or dividing line where hearing and sound begin. There is only AE of 'hearing' (label) in the present moment. AE is continuous and undivided. AE does not stop, only thoughts start and stop as when waking up and going to sleep.

There is AE of sound. For it to be AE of hearing there would have to be a hearer!
Do ears hear?

There was no intention of a 'hearer', that would be suggesting a particular 'someone'. Even the word 'sound' is thought, and not AE. Like I described words being a 'clunky' medium in an earlier post. It seems when we start getting this granular, all words are thought.

Identifying with thoughts and labels are so habitual, they have seemed to be so real, and 'me' and 'mine.

What is it exactly that is “identifying with thoughts and labels”?

Only a seeming 'me' can identify with anything. The false 'I', 'Me' and 'Mine' 'identifies'.

Hmmm….Have a look at this. How can an illusion identify with anything?

The illusion cannot identify with anything. It is just a matter of communication. An illusion (descriptive word) cannot truly identify with another (descriptive word).

It is getting to a point where I want to send you blank posts as I sit with AE, and no words! LOL

Thank you,

Lee

[forgetmenot]

Hello Lee,

As always, a pleasure to read your posts.

This was a good exercise. Everything describing AE is blahblahblah. The only accurate thing to do is to look at AE and remain silent. Referring to or using any word is thought.

Yes, so this exercise is the litmus test, so to speak. Never believe what thought says, always check it against AE.

Yes, and if colour and taste labelled as “chocolate/vanilla ice-cream” is not the current experience, then those thoughts and mental images are pointing to pure fantasy. Can you see this?

Yes, I can definitely see this. At one time I used to think that thoughts were the problem, and the mind needed to stay silent. I have seen that it is not possible for the thoughts to stay silent all the time, nor is it an 'enemy'. There's nothing wrong with the fantasy as long as it is seen as that. If we did not use descriptive thought or fantasy, we would only remain silent.

Nicely said! Nothing wrong with fantasy as long as it is seen as that!

There was no intention of a 'hearer', that would be suggesting a particular 'someone'. Even the word 'sound' is thought, and not AE. Like I described words being a 'clunky' medium in an earlier post. It seems when we start getting this granular, all words are thought.

Great! And yes, the word ‘sound’ is thought, but we still need to communicate in this lovely story called life!

It is getting to a point where I want to send you blank posts as I sit with AE, and no words! LOL

Haha! That is excellent!

Well to me you seem pretty well cooked, so to speak! Do you have any questions at all, does anything need clarifying or are you happy to answer the final questions to this exploration?

With love, Kay

[Lee0101]

Hi Kay,

You're guidance has been so very important and enjoyable. I can't express how much I appreciate you and this forum.

Well to me you seem pretty well cooked, so to speak!

Haha, it feels like it.

Do you have any questions at all, does anything need clarifying or are you happy to answer the final questions to this exploration?

Everything seems clear. I don't think there are any questions at the moment. I am happy to answer the final questions to the exploration.

Thank you,

Lee

[forgetmenot]

Hey Lee,

You're guidance has been so very important and enjoyable. I can't express how much I appreciate you and this forum.

Thank you! It takes two to tango and it is always such a pleasure to guide when the other is willing to be open and LOOK...so thank you to you too!

Okay...final questions.

Can you answer the following questions with some detail please, and answer what's true for you , rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

With love, Kay

[Lee0101]

Hi Kay,

Here are the answers to the questions. I got a little long-winded.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

After receiving your guidance, it is clearly seen that there is no separate anything in addition to a 'self', 'me' or 'I'. Using 'I', 'me' or 'mine', is just a communication tool.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of the separate self is assuming that thoughts that arise, actions of the body are 'mine' and the body itself is ‘me’. The idea that there is anything that is separate is an illusion. From my experience, thinking that I am a doer of actions and an individual, have caused mental and physical pain. Thinking that I am a localized entity, and resisting what is happening is like shoving the totality into a bucket and putting the lid on. That is why there has been so much mental and physical tension. All of these tensions have been a signal that seem to say “ You are resisting yourself, be free, be as you are.” There is absolutely no separate entity, and especially a ‘me’. This looking has definitely cleared up the misapprehension.

3) How does it feel to see this?

Very freeing. Really seeing that life is just ‘lifing’, and that there is really nothing personal going on, seems to give life its control back. Even though life has not lost control at all, the seeming individual control and doership is going away. That ‘individual control’ and ‘doership’ was a ‘no’ that caused so much tension. Now, there is ‘yes’. There is a curiosity and a “what’s next” enjoyment to life that I have not seen in a very long time - probably since childhood.

What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

Before I started the dialogue, there were physical knots manifesting that needed to be released. These knots were manifesting due to the seeming separate self, and trying to control. As the separate self’s last stand, and protecting itself from being seen as illusion, there was a lot of mental and physical tension.

Now, after being methodically guided to LOOK, and seeing the difference between AE and story, all of it can be accepted with humor and compassion. As I wrote in a previous post, it is still true now:

“It feels really good to be able to see and watch thought when they appear. Seeing thoughts and labels for what they are makes it much lighter. Thinking there was an actual 'me' and the thoughts being 'mine', has been very painful mentally and physically. When we started our dialogue, I felt like a rope that had continued to be twisted until it started knotting up. Now it seems like the rope has been twisted in the opposite direction where the strands are separating and there is no rope! LOL. Things continue lightening up. I welcome and say 'yes' to what arises. A completely different experience to life.”

Please report from the past few days.

Over the past few days, there have been instances of tension and agitation at work and at home, but these are now seen as something just rising and not ‘me’ or ‘mine’. I feel that this has been one of the most important thing seen. Normally, I would have looked at this as: “Since I am on the spiritual path, I should not have any tension or bad thoughts.” , and a big resistance or ‘NO’ would be fighting with these feelings or thoughts and fortifying a ‘me’. LOL. What BS! This seems like a major breakthrough. Seeing the illusion for illusion, pulls the teeth from the paper tiger! haha. And, it’s all ok, how wonderful to be able to say that.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Really being able to discern between AE and story or fantasy. There was something about what you wrote that blew something out:

“Resistance is impossible, how can what already is be resisted and be resisted by what exactly? It is impossible to change what is already appearing! It is only an appearing thought that says “I am resisting xyz". Thoughts are actual experience (AE) and either point to actual experience or to thought stories ie fantasy. Actual experience is everything, except the "content" of thought, because thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience.”

“Again, gratitude for pointing out that thoughts are experience, but the labels and content within are not experiences. Just labels. I have never read that or been told that. What a bomb. After reading all of these a few time, I laughed and laughed. Thoughts built upon thoughts about thoughts... As I'm typing this, a stunned and bewildered feeling is going on. Not in a bad way, but light. These responses felt like strong, needed medicine.”

This seemed like you lovingly put a grenade in my lap, and gave me a pat on the head. That statement started the momentum of SEEING.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

Does not exist. Decision, intention, free will, choice and control belong to fantasy or a seeming ‘me’.

b) What makes things happen? How does it work?

Everything is just happening. I don’t know how it works.

c) What are you responsible for?

I am not responsible for anything. The ‘you’ in the question suggests that there is an individual or separate ’I’ or ‘me’ that is a doer. If everything is left to life to live itself, all will work out well and the way it is supposed to.

d) Give examples from experience.

By watching or allowing things and events to just happen without a sense of doership, everything just happens. While at work, when there is nothing to do at the time, it is allowed to be rest time with nothing to do until there is something new to do. In the past, I would have paced the floor looking for something to do and think: “I should be doing something.” , just to stay busy. By allowing things to just happen, the stress has reduced dramatically. It seems like this will gradually increase in all areas of life.

6) Anything to add?

Nothing other than heartfelt gratitude for you, Kay and this forum of ‘seekers’ and ‘guides’. This has been the greatest gift received.

Thank you.

Love,

Lee

[forgetmenot]

Hello Lee,

What an absolutely beautiful post to read....my heart felt gratitude for having the privilege of reading it! I had laughter, gratitude and happy tears appear! Thank you!

I am now going to ask a couple of guides to read the thread to make sure I have covered everything and that everything is clear. They may or may not have extra questions for you. This may take a day or two but I will be back in contact when I hear from them.

Once again, thank you for such a beautiful post. I am so very happy for you. My role was only to point...you did the hard work of looking and you were so very willing to do that.

With love, Kay

[forgetmenot]

Hi Lee,

Congratulations, and welcome through the 'Gateless Gate'. There are no further questions for you. It has been an absolute pleasure to walk with you and point the way. Thank you for being so open and willing to LOOK!

Keep an eye out for an email notification from the forum about a PM (private message) inviting you to join our Aftercare group on Facebook. The PM also details other resources available to you. Your username will change from green to blue, which indicates that you have had the realisation of there being no separate self.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions etc, via the forums PM system, or via Facebook if you decide to join our groups there.

Love, Kay