In need of direct pointing-out instruction

[Canfora]

What are you expecting to happen? And - if you can see a separate you can't be found - what will experience any difference?

[Aphorism8]

I meant, "as far as I can tell...." Nice typo in that last posting of mine.

[Aphorism8]

There wouldn't be anyone or anything to experience any difference.

[Canfora]

There wouldn't be anyone or anything to experience any difference.

That sounds like a learned nihilistic view. Ok. It would be seen there isn't an entity. Or a thing that is you. But are you saying that what you are doesn't exist or that when you focus you aren't aware of what is going on right now? I suppose you are having a very reach experience right now? Do you expect this experiencing to shut down or to become insensitive to it somehow?

Any reason why you are writing so little? What's going on?

[Canfora]

*rich* experience!

[Aphorism8]

It was just a logical response to the question of what would experience any difference if no entity can be found, while trying to steer clear of "I" language. Actually not at all nihilistic. Clearly something exists!

I do not know what I am or what actually is. But to make any sort of nihilistic claim such as "nothing exists" would seem to me to be false prima facie.

Someone or something is here writing right now.....or at least (trying now to be careful and precise with language) there is seen to be a world......a porch, trees, cars passing on the street, a computer on which typing is happening. None of which, by the way, required the pronoun "I" to express.

And so, the term "I" is found to be a very, very vaguely defined label that does not refer to anything perceptible. And it's even less than that. There are many other concepts that only exist and concepts, but can be rendered far more specifically than "I." For example - Santa Claus. Santa Claus, though non-existent in reality, is far more concrete than "I." Same with unicorns.

And yet, there's some perceived difference. There is no doubt regarding the non-existence of Santa Claus and unicorns.

Wondering if there's some semantic hair-splitting in play here on this end causing a hang-up...... No hesitation in declaring "No entity known as I exists."

However, the statement "I do not exist" does not ring true presently. Similarly, the statement "I am" does ring true. For those three assertions to be logically compatible, "I" would have to mean something very different in statements 2 and 3 vs. statement 1.

But I don't want to go there, because I don't want to make any claims about what actually is or what I actually am; and yet I can't help sort of going there! I feel like I know that I am (not using "I" to mean the non-existing separate self), but I'm not sure it's correct to declare that.

I hope I'm expressing the conundrum halfway decently.

[Aphorism8]

....."only exist as concepts," is what I meant to say in the line about Santa Claus.

[Canfora]

Hello there,

However, the statement "I do not exist" does not ring true presently. Similarly, the statement "I am" does ring true. For those three assertions to be logically compatible, "I" would have to mean something very different in statements 2 and 3 vs. statement 1.

But I don't want to go there, because I don't want to make any claims about what actually is or what I actually am; and yet I can't help sort of going there! I feel like I know that I am (not using "I" to mean the non-existing separate self), but I'm not sure it's correct to declare that.

Usually questions - even when answered to our satisfaction - give birth to more questions. And the kind of questioning you had going on when you were a child is very likely very different than the one that is going on now. It seems there is always something more to learn, to know, isn't it?

Let's say you are struck by lightning and all the answers of the universe are downloaded on you. You are sure the right answer to all questions is 42! https://www.quora.com/Why-and-how-is-42 ... everything

Yay!

Will this immediate experience that you can see going on right now turn into something else? Will groking all there is to know be a evidence that you are or aren't a separate self? What are you hoping knowledge to give you? The end of seeking? Security? A different you?

Take care,
C

[Aphorism8]

Nice Douglas Adams reference!

I guess I am not sure what to do next.

[Canfora]

Maybe you could try answering the questions that are in my last post?

[Aphorism8]

I have to concede.....yes. The point of seeing past the self illusion, at least as it has been represented in a ton of stuff prior to LU, is some sort of "freedom." But increasingly it seems that that whole expectation is unfounded.

And yet, the site is called "Liberation Unleashed!" Set me straight here, if you would!

[Canfora]

If you ask yourself what isn't free and you look around to find the answer, what do you see? What is the immediate answer that pops up?

Have a look.

It's the body that isn't free?
Are the thoughts not free?
How about the sensations? Do they crave freedom?
Is there something else that isn't free?

Do the body, the thoughts, the sensations, the emotions, the identification care about freedom? Other than a story about yourself, can the one that wants freedom be found?

Right now, what can you see - other than a story about what is happening or could be happening or shouldn't be happening - that proves that you are somehow not free?

Is it possible to find this me that thoughts say is looking for freedom?

And yet, the site is called "Liberation Unleashed!" Set me straight here, if you would!

Good question. Maybe liberation from the believe in a separate self? Or liberation from the illusion that you - the illusory you - needs and can be liberated? I suppose that different people would give you different answers - that's what always happens when we ponder about conceptual stuff.

Take care,
C

[Aphorism8]

OK, dropping (or trying to!) all pre-conceived notions, I simply cannot find anything that the term "I" could refer to. There simply isn't anything to be found. Lots of things appear, but no I.

"I" is a concept without any sort of referent in reality. It feels a little weird and mysterious to assert that, but it is what it is.

[Canfora]

So what is doing this exploration? Without an I what remains?
Is anything lost? Is anything found? Does experience change?