Falling into

[Cloudberry]

All happening as you said.
Relaxing weekend although mood was quite stormy and negative. Never mind that. Looking has been interesting. Sat in stillness this morning watching thoughts. Seems that what needs to be looked at is the subject and not the thought objects. Example. Future based thought scanning ahead to something imagined in the workplace later today. Usually the perception is I am thinking of the future. I can see this is a future thought. Now what is being seen is the subject that is looking at the thought is also just a thought. A thought based character if you like living out in a thought created reality. There have been a couple of moments where this is seen and it's been funny. There is still a hope or expectation or desire of you will for this to be permanently seen but I guess drop that and keep looking. Keep looking at the subject, keep looking at the looker.

Does this seem ok?

This needs to be seen and not understood conceptually as the conceptual understanding is more thought. That's the joke. This can never be understood by the thinker as the thinker does not exist.

It feels like this is the right avenue of investigation

[Matthew]

Does this seem ok?

It is amazingly accurate!

It feels like this is the right avenue of investigation

Absolutlely!

Keep looking at the subject, keep looking at the looker.

Yes. Keep looking at the apparent subject, at the apparent looker.
That's what Direct Pointing is all about.
To make the client look at the "place" where a subject is assumed.
From many different angles until it is at some point perfectly clear that a "subject" can never actually be found.



So yes. Just keep looking.
On the one hand on basis how looking unfolds itself and on the other hand on basis of the pointers given here.

here is still a hope or expectation or desire if you will for this to be permanently seen

What needs to see this permanently?

[Cloudberry]

Challenging week at work. Felt like I wanted to be alone, quiet, peaceful. Instead it's been busy noisy and chaotic. Still a low mood hanging around. Likely fueled by story and emotions dancing together.

Finally got a little time to sit and open. Just realized the need to want peace and quiet was just a story, more thinking.

Will Continue

looking at the apparent subject, at the apparent looker.

Just wanted to to touch base as it's been a few days

Thanks for being there.

[Cloudberry]

Replying to your pointer

here is still a hope or expectation or desire if you will for this to be permanently seen

What needs to see this permanently?

Upon reflection it's just a though story. Still learning to see this identification. It can seem so real. But just another thought. A lifetimes habit.

Thank you for showing me the way.

[Cloudberry]

I've woken up at 2am after 3 hrs sleep and am wide awake. Things feel different. Very present. The "noise" of thinking seems much quieter and slips away quickly. Strong sense of nowness, stillness, here-ness.

I checked mail to see if a reply from Matthew and there was a realisation of who is checking, who needs to know. It was just thought wanting to check, wanting to carry on the story of looking. It's difficult to put into words. You mentioned the old radio playing in the restaurant kitchen in the background, its like that. Thought about how will I be able to be with other people, work colleagues who just prattle on non stop about future, past, stories, schemes, anywhere but here. There has already been a couple of comments about how quiet I am and am I ok :-)

That said. Just another story.

Just here, in kitchen, tea, cat on lap, breath, sound of silence and ticking clock, creaking house, subtle thought stream trickling in background.

So. Is there a me? Well, I'm very present so definitely here. The story of Rob seems very different though. There's just here and now. There is still thinking ahead but it's quieter, much quieter.

Sorry for rambling but wanted to share with you.

Be well

[Matthew]

It is great and truly heartwarming to read those accounts, thank you for that!
You can share anything, that comes up. Anytime.
And it there is nothing to share anymore, then it is also good.
It is all unfolding just well.

And there is no need to pose many great questions right now.

So. Is there a me? Well, I'm very present so definitely here.

Sure. There is presence. There is experience.
But is there a "me" in the centre of experience?
Is there a separate "me" outside of life being in charge of life?

[Cloudberry]

There was this juicy insight yesterday.
There was awareness of a thought about the future, this week thought, something needing to be done that felt so real and part of my life in the future. This insight arose that rather than this being true about the future and my future and painting ahead my future, all it was was a thought arising and more to the point a thought arising NOW. That's all it was. A thought arising NOW.

This was a wonderful insight that was not just known cognitively but known right through the body. Wisdom.

But is there a "me" in the centre of experience?
Is there a separate "me" outside of life being in charge of life?

That said. Today there has just been identification with thought and me. Or at least it feels like thoughts are real and well, me I guess.

As this is written I'm asking myself "what identifies with the thoughts" the answer must be more thoughts right?

It's a kind of a relapse. But it's ok because it's opportunity to see and look into it.


So when there is time to look and space to look then it can be seen there is no solid me. When at work and vhslled it feels like the thoughts are me.

Going to go for an evening walk

Cheers

Rob

[Matthew]

Wisdom.

Indeed.

As this is written I'm asking myself "what identifies with the thoughts" the answer must be more thoughts right?

Can a thought identify?

feels like thoughts are real

What makes a thought appear as "real"?

[Cloudberry]

Thanks for the pointers

Can a thought identify

No. It's a story about identification.

What makes a thought appear as "real"?

Another thought.?

[Matthew]

Exactly.
Whatever it is. Whatever the apparent issue might be.
Always look for the assumed subject in the situation.

The "I" in any circumstance.

"I am not so clear today"
"What is not clear?"
"Nothing. There is nothing which could be unclear"

"I wish I had a deeper realisation"
"What needs a deeper realisation?"
"No one"

"I am so unhappy today"
"What is unhappy?"
"No unhappy thing can be found in experience"


By that you actively help the old structures to burn down, to fall away.
It goes deeper and deeper and deeper.

How deep will it go?
No idea!

But at some point there should be a crystal clarity, that there is simply no little "me" inside the head or somewhere.
I really feel that we have arrived at this point. Haven't we?

[Cloudberry]

Yes, the assumed sense of "I" or "Me" yet when looked for cannot be found.

Yrs, the

assumed subject in the situation.

The "I" in any circumstance

.

Feels do familiar and real yet when looked for it cannot be found. So simple.

But at some point there should be a crystal clarity, that there is simply no little "me" inside the head or somewhere.
I really feel that we have arrived at this point. Haven't we?

Yes. There is no I to be found, never was and never will be.

Every time I've looked I've found nothing, no-one.
There is just a stream of unfolding experience to which the "I" thought attaches via narrative giving the illusion there is a "Me" that all of this is happening to.

The expectation of there needing to be a big pop or a bigger experience is just another story.

It's all just a big story, there is just what is happening right now.

What a relief actually

[Cloudberry]

Upon looking this morning.

Nothing huge has changed and there is no altered state or bliss or rapture.

There is still a me narrative persisting as a habit but the difference now is it is known as just a thought.

Me thoughts still persist but they are known as being just a thought or thoughts or a story.

Subtle but huge at the same time.

[Matthew]

Me thoughts still persist but they are known as being just a thought or thoughts or a story.

Very good.
By that, they will become quieter or not.
Doesn't really matter since they are seen for what they are.
No one is bothered by an appearance of the letter "I".


Is "I" responsible for anything?
Was it ever?

[Cloudberry]

Is "I" responsible for anything?
Was it ever?

This is an interesting area and question. The immediate impulse is to say yes. Volition, planning, actions, I related things, everything, talking, writing, anything that affects the I.

Then coming at it from the perspective of seeing I as just a thought then I isn't responsible for anything.

So the habit is to say yes, the new way of seeing is to say no.

[Cloudberry]

"I" is only responsible for keeping itself alive.