Tellmewhoyouare

[TellmewhoIam]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?

I understand that the self, or I, is a concept generated by the mind with support of all sensory input of the person and the language brain centers.
I understand that LU is focused in supporting the individual into disattaching from the concept of self and helping her ot him to get a direct experience of reality, without the distortions of the I.

What are you looking for at LU?

Im looking to find support to give the last step. To do the final release. I am finding it hard to get to the other side, I feel I get very close to the point of final disattachment but I haven't yet crossed to the other side. I find a barrier of fear and physical blockage right at the gate.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?

I expect I could get advice on how to get around or be helped into dissolving the blockages I find on the stages where I get closer to the gate. I need support into managing some of the final stages, like the fear. May be I can be guided by some person who has experienced and overcomed strong physical and fear blockages to which I can relate to some extent.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

I am a long term meditation practicioner. I have attended one enlightenment intensive. I do pose to myself the observation of trying to contemplate who am I. I had done that for countless hours, day and night. I have read extensively scientific literature on how the mind works. I have a fairly stable understanding on how people gather knowledge and how the mind emerges from the brain from a neurological perspective.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?

11

[Sarah7]

Hi
I’m Sarah and I’d be happy to speak with you. What would like me to call you?
Have you looked around our site? You know what we do?
Looking forward to speaking with you.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hi Sarah,
Call me Victor. Thank you for reaching out to me. I have read some threads on the forum and I am glad to see that this is the place I have been longing to find for quite a long time till now.
And now, getting the opportunity to talk with someone who can help me, I feel incredibly grateful.
I want to "remove the veil", or "reach home" as some claim to call the discovery of the non existence of the "I".
And I am willing to go to any length to achieve it.
Let's dive in

Hugs
Victor

[Sarah7]

Lovely water! Rightyho then Victor, let’s have a little look and see what’s happening!
So house keeping first:
In general, I will ask questions and you look deeply and respond with 100% honesty.
Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.
Responses are best from direct experience (the physical evidence of seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling, prior to the story or explanation about them). Long-winded, analytical and philosophical or stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. Just listen very closely to the answers that arise in you, and answer to the very best of your ability at that time. Read the article at for more help on distinguishing what is direct experience: http://www.liberationunleashed.com/reso ... xperience/
Please learn to use the quote function.

I want to "remove the veil", or "reach home"

Where are you then if not home?

I’m looking to find support to give the last step.

How do you know you are close? I mean what makes you think that? What will the last step look like? And how will you know you have passed through it?

I find a barrier of fear and physical blockage right at the gate.

You mention a barrier of fear? Do you think fear will end? Or is there a wish never to experience fear again?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hi Sarah,
I've found and read the DE article. It resonates totally with what I explain below:

Right after my registration in the forum I have read several threads of it, installed and started the quotes application in the phone and started to read Gateless Gatecrashers. I have refrained to read about other line of information on this matter, as indicated.

Yesterday evening, while reading some more liberationunleashed content, there was this acknowledgment of life just unfolding on its own and playing one more embodied expression through.. me? or what we could see as me.

Tears flowed down my cheeks. Slowly, during a prolonged period. It felt as if so many castles inside my head fell down. Plenty of new blood circulation ran towards oxygenating my eyes.

The feeling left was rather neutral, but a deep tempered calm through me.

Let's address your questions:

I want to "remove the veil", or "reach home"
Where are you then if not home?

Honestly contemplating the question brought more tears onto my eyes. It feels sort of a purifying process.

I’m looking to find support to give the last step.
How do you know you are close? I mean what makes you think that? What will the last step look like? And how will you know you have passed through it?

I can assert now that there is no action or step to be done, it is just allowing to be life or not allowing.
Not being close or far, it's already here, now. The computer I have in front of me is there, even if I close my eyes to not see it.
There is no passing through it, just recognition of the mental circus I have built and lived in. Now I allow the circus to fold down and light to be instead.
But I can sense how sticky the mind constructs are, I just recognize now when I am inside one and let it pass through me without getting attached to it.

I find a barrier of fear and physical blockage right at the gate.
You mention a barrier of fear? Do you think fear will end? Or is there a wish never to experience fear again?

Now I understand fear will be there. The only difference is that now there is no reason for the life expression to be kidnapped into the "I" as it has in the past.

it feels as if a complete new journey has begun.
I laugh from innocent joy.

all the love with you Sarah,

Victor

[TellmewhoIam]

Sarah,

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/reso ... implified/ resumes perfectly what has happened to me.

I did enlightenment intensive...
I used "tell me who you are" contemplation for countless hours...
Now that you and liberationunleashed showed me that there is no Who to find...

..I'm free. I want to jump and run with such rush of energy.

all love and hugs Sarah

[Sarah7]

Hi Victor
If it’s ok with you I’d like to continue digging around just to check everything is clear. I like to be thorough!
So.....
Do you intentionally bring any of these thoughts? Or do they come and go on their own? If you do bring them from where and
how?
Can you send them away, stop them or get rid? Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?
Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?
Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?
Is there is a thought that you can control?

Can thought think? In other words do you actually experience a thought thinking!
What can a thought do – what power does it have?

You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?

Now I allow the circus to fold down.........

Who or what does this allowing? What exactly are you controlling and how?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hi Sarah,
Totally ok for me. My head feels somehow thickened and cloudy today.

Do you intentionally bring any of these thoughts? Or do they come and go on their own? If you do bring them from where and
how?

The thoughts unfold upon themselves, they arise after reading the questions. They feel as somehow made by the same material as the rest of the sensory input. They come and go on their own.

Can you send them away, stop them or get rid? Can you suppress your next thought before it arises? Does it work?

Totally negative for the three questions. The thoughts either pass through or the mind clings onto them, point in which they start to feed upon themselves.

Do you know what you're going to think before you think it? Sit quietly for a moment and try to predict your next thought. Does it work?

I cannot know my next thought, sitting and trying to predict the next thought only agitates and raises a surge of confusion on the thought arena.
The only thing I see regarding the flow of thoughts is that if a thought gets clinged, the rest of the perception gets distorted and separated from the original sensory input. When the clinging releases, there is a restoration of the direct reading of the senses.

Do you plan what you are going to think before you think it?

Absolutely no way such a thing can happen, as there is no me who can plan anything.

Is there is a thought that you can control?

Nop. The only thing that happens is clinging onto the thought or it fading away. The clinging itself is neither an active decision, it's like a reflex reaction.

Can thought think? In other words do you actually experience a thought thinking!
What can a thought do – what power does it have?

A thought can get clinged, moment in which more thoughts start feeding upon it. A thought does not think, the same way than any other sensory input cannot create more sensory inputs on their own.
A thought does not have any power at all, it's just a consequence of life unfolding on its own.

You experience thoughts, but do you experience the content? Is the content real?

No, not at all. Some thoughts can trigger physiological responses and those ones can be experienced as sensory input (example: Salivation when experiencing a thought about an appealing meal)

Now I allow the circus to fold down.........

Who or what does this allowing? What exactly are you controlling and how?

Not attaching to the artificially-made concept of the self brought the "circus" to dissolution, on its own. As closest analogy one could say life washed it away.
When one drops any preconceived ideas and expectations and just takes what is here and now from our senses, the washing up happens on its own. Therefore there is no controlling, no allower, no command center, nix.

Sarah, I'm feeling today sort of sluggish, numb, not very able to hold a sustained line of reasoning for more than a few seconds at a time. I this a mini PTSD after what could have been an approach to DE? Nothing serious, but I wanted to ask you :-)

Thank you again Sarah,
hugs,
Victor

[Sarah7]

Hey Victor

I’m feeling today sort of sluggish, numb.....

Ok let’s explore it. Close your eyes and picture it. What is your direct experience of this specific emotion? List your direct experience. Is it senses? Is it thoughts? Look very closely, what is it made up of? Which comes first the senses or the thoughts?
Do you notice the emotion before or after the sensations and thoughts? How do they interact? You may feel the sensation first, followed by an identification label, followed by an ownership label like ‘I am …, then a story about sentence etc. Look at how thoughts try and take over, try and explain, try and prove, add story by sticking thoughts together and go over story again and again. When you notice these emotions do you also notice a label attached like ‘I,’ ‘me’, ‘I’m’ or ‘my’? Look.

How do you know there are thoughts and feelings?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hi Sarah,

What is your direct experience of this specific emotion? List your direct experience. Is it senses? Is it thoughts? Look very closely, what is it made up of? Which comes first the senses or the thoughts?

It is an actual pressure feeling on the neocortex area of the head. Then a thought appears that labels it. And the pressure gets reactivated. And then the thought, and the loop goes on and on.
Then I realized the labeling is done in the form of a judging voice, a labeling voice, that goes on as "..I'm blocked, I"m blocked.."
I tried to observe that voice, and it ceased in the most part. The feeling on the forehead remitted a bit as well.

How do you know there are thoughts and feelings?

This question is totally killing me (not on the physical form). It entails dropping everything.

I will post the reply for now, but my no means this last question is answered. I will work on it right now, as long as it takes.

Hugs,
Victor

[TellmewhoIam]

Hey Sarah,

I continue.

You asked me:
How do you know there are thoughts and feelings?

And I'm really struggling here.
Of course there is no point in making a rationalized answer, I needed to BE the answer.
Therefore I wanted to feel all the inputs that the body and mind provide, just as they are. Unfiltered.
I relaxed some parts of the body that were artificially tense, all right, the sensory input was flat and clear, at least OK.
I continued with the mind, just letting all that was there to be seen. And there were some parts that I managed to let be, as in the body part. Some expectations were getting on the way, I abandoned them. Some thoughts, distractions, urges, were getting in the way too. There is some remaining gripped emotional block that's is not easing.
It's about dropping, dropping everything. And seeing. But I have not yet given answer to your question.

Tomorrow I will continue the path that your question has opened.

Hugs,
Victor

[Sarah7]

Nothing to do Victor. Just watch, notice and look. Ok! :)
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hello Sarah,

Nothing to do Victor. Just watch, notice and look.

And so I did. Just notice. Notice all. And slowly, as the identification with the "I" was easing away, a wave of non verbal information started to build up in my head.
I must say a TSUNAMI of information was comming towards being experienced!
Instinctively I pushed back, at several attempts that I managed. Out of pure fear.
My heart rallied vigorously on the last attempt, hitting hard inside my chest. I was that_close to let go.It was very intense.

But Sarah, with total conviction I can say, this is where I have to go. I should cross that point. Be washed over by the tsunami.
Like a new person going to his/her first bungee jumping, I hesitated on the edge of the abyss. Fearing death itself.

Tomorrow I'm back right into it.
Sorry if I'm being a bit melodramatic, it's only the poet part on me getting out on the writting :-)
You brought me here to this point with your warm advice, I can say the most tenous part is done.

Hugs,
Víctor.

[Sarah7]

Good morning Victor

I hesitated on the edge of the abyss. Fearing death itself.

Ok so is story building here?
Where is the fear coming from? What is fearful?
Explore the fear. Is it future based? Is it story? Is it sensation? Pick apart that fear. What is it made up of?

What if you never left home? What if there is no jumping required? What if you already are what you were looking for?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[TellmewhoIam]

Hello Sarah,
Thank you for putting up with me.

Ok so is story building here?

It was only a simil to describe the feeling that was taking place.

Where is the fear coming from? What is fearful?

When opening for the Truth, the fear appears when non verbal emotions come to be experienced. Those previously hidden emotions are the ones raising the feeling of fear and blockage.

Explore the fear. Is it future based? Is it story? Is it sensation? Pick apart that fear. What is it made up of?

The fear is totally present, at the very running instant. Is not a story, there is no verbalization attached. It is a sensation of dread of the imminent Truth. It is made up of an emotion, an emotion of avoidance.

What if you never left home? What if there is no jumping required? What if you already are what you were looking for?

There was not intentionality on what I described. It arised out of neutral noticing, watching.
But yes, emotions, fears, avoidances, dreads, ... all would be experienced, and life would go on.

It could be that simple?

Thank you for being there.
Victor