Are you tracking?

[Jadzia]

The thoughts telling their story is nothing one needs to do something about. Observing them and letting them be is just fine. Who or what is there to care? It is part of life-ing.
There might be some settling of it, there might not be….

Now. The moment which can be felt and be thought about in ten thousand ways. ;-)
No actual experience of past and future, just NOW. Experience exactly as it is.

There still is a lot to explore after our investigation. You can go on exploring on your own but there is the possibility for a further investigation or meeting with others on facebook, too.

Just to be thorough ….. . There are thoughts about past and future:
When does a ‘past’ thought (memory) appear?
Can it be known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?
When does a future thought appear?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?
Is there a difference between a thought about the future or the past (memory)?

There is still an interesting question: Is there an inside and an outside?
Inside or outside of a body?
Is there a difference between the character “I, BirdDog” and another character, like a friend or a tree in the street?

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

Who or what is there to care? It is part of life-ing./quote]
So I get what you are saying here,About no one being here to care. But how do things like suffering play into this. Feelings and sensations that are happening? I get the may not be happening to a BirdDog, or happening to anything/anyone, but they are still happening.

When does a ‘past’ thought (memory) appear?

All thought happen in the now

Can it be known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Not exactly. Just an example, there are plenty of times where I thought I remembered doing something like locking the front door, and even have memory of doing it, just to come home to an unlocked door.

When does a future thought appear?

all thought appear in the now

Is there a difference between a thought about the future or the past (memory)?

No not really, both are thought appearing now.

Is there an inside and an outside?
Inside or outside of a body?
Is there a difference between the character “I, BirdDog” and another character, like a friend or a tree in the street?

Hmmnnn very interesting. So im not sure exactly what would constitute something being either inside or outside of something. Thats as if there is something to be inside or outside of. But what I do know is that there is nothing different between me and a friend. We are both not really inside, because that would imply an outside, but co-existing simultaneously and appearing at the same time in the now, and so in that way we are the same. Then on a different level, I would or could not exist without the things around me like trees and a body and such. What would there be then to perceive
? I like this , not sure if I am going in the direction you are pointing here ? let me know

[Jadzia]

But how do things like suffering play into this. Feelings and sensations that are happening? I get the may not be happening to a BirdDog, or happening to anything/anyone, but they are still happening.

Aren’t feelings sensations labeled by thought?
Sensations arise. No-one owns them.

What about suffering? For example “I suffer from toothache”?
“Suffering” is the label to a sensation. A label which includes more than the label “pain”. It might also include label “unbearable” and other thoughts like “Why me?”, “Darn dentist!”, ”Pain is the last thing I need.” and many more thoughts. A whole bunch of them, strengthening the sensation or maybe bringing up more.

Stripped back there is “tooth ache”, a sensation. What if the sensation wouldn’t be owned? Be an un-owned experience?
Would the sensation still be there? Yes.
Would it be different if the sensation isn’t owned? Yes.

Next time you have pain have a look. Pain is a good though rather tough teacher. You can choose to practice with something simpler first. Any sensation an “I” tries to own will do.

Not exactly. Just an example, there are plenty of times where I thought I remembered doing something like locking the front door, and even have memory of doing it, just to come home to an unlocked door.

Memories (thoughts) are tricky things, aren’t they? ;-)

Then on a different level, I would or could not exist without the things around me like trees and a body and such. What would there be then to perceive

Is a body needed to exist? Is something around needed?

You can try this body exercise – nothing is better than own experience:

Close your eyes. Pay attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images. Answer each of these questions one at a time, from direct experience only:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

Is a body needed to exist? Is something around needed?

No The actual body isn't needed, because plenty of things exist that dont have a body,
But something is needed around us or else there would be nothing to perceive, there would be no this.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No IT cannot

Does the body have a weight or volume?

Maybe, it cannot be known. In looking, all I can AE is the sensation of weight while i'm sitting, or sensations of volume for example the sensation of a rising or falling stomach. With that being said, It cannot be known for sure that the body has volume or weight.

In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?

I have DE of the body through sight. And it appears to have shape and form.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

No I cannot find one in AE.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

I cannot find a boundery

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

The label is just a thought, about sensations that the mind then labels body. It actually refers to the sensations that appear.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The actual experience of of the body is the human experience that we are living. the experience of the body is the experience. but there is a different between the body being the vessel of the experience versus the origin of experience.

[Jadzia]

Good.

But something is needed around us or else there would be nothing to perceive, there would be no this.

When you close your eyes and go into meditation you are able to experience something, aren’t you? Do you need something around of you to perceive something – to perceive LIFE/THIS?
For there to be a perceiver of the perceived equals separation. Is there separation?
Where does sound end and hearing begin? Remember, the sound exercise with the clock? Perhaps it is a good time to revisit this exercise.

I have DE of the body through sight. And it appears to have shape and form.

What happens if you close your eyes? Is there still a body?
Aren't "shape" and "form" labels? What tells about a label?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
The label is just a thought, about sensations that the mind then labels body. It actually refers to the sensations that appear.

Word/label refers to thought. A sensation is the AE of sensation. Thought points to sensation and labels it 'body'. Whatever thought labels a sensation, a sensation is a sensation.

Let's have a look at and see if labels actually have a one-to-one correspondence with reality:

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?
Is the colour red experienced, or is the colour green experienced as the label suggests?
Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’?
Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here and now (red colour)?
Is green-ness inherent attributes of the experience of the colour red, or is green just a word label on the experience of the colour red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?
Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

The actual experience of of the body is the human experience that we are living. the experience of the body is the experience. but there is a different between the body being the vessel of the experience versus the origin of experience.

What is human experience in AE? Who or what is “living” it?

Label 'body' is known as AE of thought
Image/colour 'body is known as AE of colour
Sensation labelled 'body' is known as AE of sensation
Smell labelled 'body' is known as AE of smell
Taste labelled 'body' is known as AE of taste
Sound labelled 'body' is known as AE of taste.
So is a 'body' actually known or only thoughts about a 'body' is known?

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

Heyyy so Im thinking i was intellectualizing on that last post. looking back I see what you are saying.

What happens if you close your eyes? Is there still a body?
Aren't "shape" and "form" labels? What tells about a label?

Well I know that if I close my eyes and touch my hands together I feel the sensation of my hands. So im not seeing how me opening or closing my eyes would change if the body exists. yes it is the thoughts that labels sensations as the body is feeling them.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

The AE is the sight of the word, and the thought that comes that says green.

Is the colour red experienced, or is the colour green experienced as the label suggests?

The color red is seen in AE. There is no AE of the color green. just the AE of thoughts.

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’?

Not sure what you mean by one-one? but because i put a label on it does not mean they are actually here in reality.

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here and now (red colour)?

Yes something else. The thoughts suggest alot of stuff that is not happening now.

Is green-ness inherent attributes of the experience of the colour red, or is green just a word label on the experience of the colour red?

Green is a word label.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?
Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

No, the word labels would not have an effect on reality. they are just thoughts, the contents of the thoughts are not based on the here and now in reality. only the fact that the thought is happening.

What is human experience in AE? Who or what is “living” it?

The human experience is the sensations, thoughts ect. There isn't necessarily a who or what living it. But its how life happens. How life is expressed through the body, or appears to be through the body. An expression of sorts. But not actually the body because that is a label, I see that. but its easy to use this label here. Do you think that is far off?

[Jadzia]

There still seems to be some confusion with body and seeing. It is tricky, we are so used to claiming a body. Let’s work this out together.

What happens if you close your eyes? Is there still a body?
Aren't "shape" and "form" labels? What tells about a label?
Well I know that if I close my eyes and touch my hands together I feel the sensation of my hands. So im not seeing how me opening or closing my eyes would change if the body exists. yes it is the thoughts that labels sensations as the body is feeling them.

Eyes closed, sensations arise. They are noticed in AE and labeled by thoughts. So far ok, right?
If you touch your hands together, do you really feel hands or do you just feel a sensation?
Do you see/feel hand? Or is it an image/colour labeled by thoughts as hand?
How can it be known that there is something existing called hands?

Can a body “feel”? Or is there a thought “I or the body feels this and that”?

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?
The AE is the sight of the word, and the thought that comes that says green.

AE of the sight of the word? There is only AE of thought/word. Yes, a thought appears saying that the word is 'green', however what is the actual experience? Is the word actually green or red? Is the word pointing to what actually is or fantasy?

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’?
Not sure what you mean by one-one? but because i put a label on it does not mean they are actually here in reality.

Yes and to get even more clear: Does the word point to what is actually appearing or does it point to something that doesn't even correlate (match up) to what is actually appearing ie the colour red/word GREEN?

What is human experience in AE? Who or what is “living” it?
The human experience is the sensations, thoughts ect. There isn't necessarily a who or what living it. But its how life happens. How life is expressed through the body, or appears to be through the body. An expression of sorts. But not actually the body because that is a label, I see that. but its easy to use this label here. Do you think that is far off?

Here you have to really look.
Human experience is sensation, thoughts? How can a label be something, do something or experience something?
Shapes, human, animal, plant ect, are nothing more than different patterns of colour/images. Without thought how can it be known that there is a human, an animal, a plant?
Is there human experience, animal experience ect or is there just experience?
Is there awareness split into “human”, “animal”, “plant” ect awareness? Or is there just awareness?

Life seems to express itself through a body but can body be found in AE? If body is a label how can life express itself through a body?
And does life express itself through something or as something?
Through something implies there is life and something else – this points to separation! There is no separation.

Where does feeling end and sensation begin? Where is the dividing line/boundary between what is seemingly 'felt' and the sensation itself?

Here is an exercise that looks at the idea about body sensation and sight and could help you to become more clear.

- Close the eyes and hold up one of the hands. Pay attention only to the felt sensations ‘of the hand’.
- Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
- While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.
Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…

Normally we believe that the sensation is coming from the sight, the ‘object’ seen (hand). Right?
But actually, is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

Could it be that both the ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?
Could it be that they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

You can repeat the exercise with all of body parts. For the head you can use a mirror.

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

I agree with you. im starting to get confused. I think it would be helpful to focus on a just a few questions at a time to try to stay focused. I find myself jumping all over the place. what do you think?

[Jadzia]

Thank you BirdDog - I already started wondering if these long answers with the tons of questions aren't too much to focus on. So, they are. Good to know.

Ok, we already covered a lot of ground together. This meant opening a lot of doors, pointing into a lot of directions, some of which you might want to have a closer look later on. You don’t have to be 110% sure of each and everything we covered right now.
So shake the confusion off and let's get back to basics and see where that leads us. OK?

But here is one thing:
Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?
Is there any confusion about this answer?

Please take your time with this question and write a longer text if you like. And only Direct Looking!!

Love,
Jadzia

[Jadzia]

OOPs. The last sentences turned out too short. "And only Direct Looking!!"

Please remember to only rely on what you found out or find by Direct Looking.

[BirdDog]

Mnk yes and thank you. I am able to see that there is no and never has been a separate self.

I feel that with too many questions its hard to focus on one thing, because sometimes the questions will overlap ya know.

[Jadzia]

Everything overlaps - everything is connected, ya know. :-)

So, you are able to see that the separate self is an illusion. Wonderful. How does it feel?

I'd still like to know since you mentioned human experience in an earlier post:
What is human experience?
Is there human experience, animal experience ect or is there just experience?
How is it known one is human?

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

Yes i definently see the interconnectivity and how deep that really runs!!!

It feels relieving at times to know i dont have to run on the rabbit wheel lol. It definently feels good :)

What is human experience?
Is there human experience, animal experience ect or is there just experience?
How is it known one is human?

I just mean this essentially. what I meant was the experiences around touch, taste ,smell, feel ect. and how those are grouped together to create this. I really dont know if there is an "animal experience" because im not a animal like a dog or cat ect. But they do have senses so maybe they experience this! i bet they do. It is not known one is human. that is just a label. Why confine this to one word?

[Jadzia]

Beautiful!

Interconnectivity –just Awareness, Life, This, God. Whatever name one likes to use. Oh yes, that runs deep.
And getting off the rabbit wheels has it’s merits. ;-)

Why confine this to one word?

Isn’t that beautiful to see? There is so much freedom to be found when labels are recognized for what they are - something with no meaning other than thoughts “try to point to”.
Male, female, old, young, interesting, boring – the whole bunch of it.

Do you have any questions?

Are there any doubts or confusion left concerning the illusion of self?

When you look back to the time before this dialogue, are there other changes you notice? Around friends, work, whatever? Some changes might be very subtle.

Love,
Jadzias

[BirdDog]

Yeasss the interconnectivity is great.

AS far as if I have any more questions. I would like to take a day to think about it if thats ok.

When you look back to the time before this dialogue, are there other changes you notice? Around friends, work, whatever? Some changes might be very subtle

Yes I do notice some changes. Its honestly hard to remember what it was like before the dialogue is that normal? I do notice no longer getting caught up in things that arent happening now such are worrying as much about the future and dwelling in the past. As well as how i view other people has changed. Recognizing that others are in the illusion. As well as other subtle changes