Selfless Living?

[emptyself]

It has been a fascinating day.

I have not done any formal inquiry. But the inquiry has been in the back of my mind as i went about my day.

But something is happening. I have felt vibrantly alive all day. A great clarity of mind. Very clear about things in my life that were so unclear before. Very positive and optimistic. Feeling way better than I normally do.

Hard to explain given that I have not completed the inquiry.

[Bananafish]

Trust that feeling, but don't try to reproduce it through inquiry.

That feeling might be an ice on the cake (which is beautiful), but our focus is to know what is true, whatever kind of feeling comes along with it ... even the worst ones.

Good that the inquiry is becoming a
part of your life. :). Keep up the good
work, and please keep reporting.

[emptyself]

Thanks Bananafish - I take your point. I was enjoying the new good feelings so much that I was distracted from the enquiry.

I went back to deeper looking today - I seem to go backwards and forwards, but with more clarity each time.

Today i have seen with total certainty that the sense of self and the thinking mind (thought) is the same thing.

This feels really useful because it has massively narrowed down what I need to look at more deeply.

There is no sense of self other than thought. I am clear on this now.

And it felt quite strange because thought obviously isn't real, concrete or permanent.

But it does seem to make choices and as discussed earlier in the thread, have the ability to make things happen - e.g bodily feelings.

So that is where I am at. It may look as if I have gone backwards again but it feels like progress!

[Bananafish]

Good morning, emptyself.

You're doing a great job. :)


If you can, take some time to do the
handraising experiment or lemon visualization
experiment again, and see if you can observe
something new.

Also, apply the experiments to everyday life. Be creative in coming up with your own experiment as well.

[emptyself]

If you can, take some time to do the
handraising experiment or lemon visualization
experiment again, and see if you can observe
something new.

I did these several times again. Something occurred to me. I am not sure how to describe it. But it was of an intuition about time. Only now ever exists. And now has nothing to do with time. Time of course is a product of thought, for past and future can only be known by thought. This being the case, there is no cause and effect, and hence thought can not raise hands or produce sensations. Logically it still makes no sense to me, but that is what sprang into my mind and it felt right some how. This would explain to me the illusion you pointed to.

I am also acutely aware today of thought being what I imagined the self to be. Outside of thought I am not finding a self. And thought really is this ephermeral thing.

[Bananafish]

Hi!


What is your present understanding of thoughts causing something?
Has it changed from a couple of days ago?

[emptyself]

What is your present understanding of thoughts causing something?
Has it changed from a couple of days ago?

Not significantly - but given what I said yesterday about time, it is making me doubt the reality of cause and effect in general. In any one moment I can only know what is there in that moment. Anything else is memory which is thought. I can see this but it is a bit conceptual.

[Bananafish]

Ok.

It's important to check for the change that happened ... especially in case it's
subtle. It might be subtle, but it is still a change, and that suggests what
you're doing is at least going somewhere.

Please keep inquiring, and report anything, even if that's something that
seems trivial.

[emptyself]

Oh dear, I think I have fallen down the snake and ended up at the start again....

With my eyes open, I can easily say, looking is happening, hearing is happening, arm is just lifting etc. There is no sense of a separate self when I do the exercises in that way.

But with my eyes closed it is quite different. Then it seems that there is indeed an invisible presence that can direct attention, initiate thought (which then has effects) and make choices. I can of course see that all of that is a mental/thought happening, including the apparent invisible presence. That same invisible presence can observe and witness thought.

[Bananafish]

Close your eyes and sense that "presence". Describe it with as many details as possible.
Give it a name or two other than "presence." Don't say "I already know what it is".
Observe it anew, as if you were a baby.

[emptyself]

Close your eyes and sense that "presence". Describe it with as many details as possible.
Give it a name or two other than "presence." Don't say "I already know what it is".
Observe it anew, as if you were a baby.

I think I have moved on a little since your last question - I have spent the last few days doing lots of watching.

This is where I am up to:

There is a fundamental presence - we could also call it a knowing of existence - or we could say a "switched on-ness".

This is always there, and it is how anything whatsoever is able to be known. So when we say seeing is just happening, seeing is in that moment inseparable from that knowing. It is a fundamental aliveness and the apparent self is is energised by this aliveness (i should add that this is hard to express because I can see that thoughts can not be a self acting self)

Then there are thoughts. These just seem to happen by themselves. Thoughts and their conceptualisations clearly make up the apparent sense of self. I am certainly seeing that the self is just made up of thought. And thought is inseparable from that knowing. So thought seems to make up a kind of virtual reality in which is looks as if there is a self that is an independent and permanently existing entity. When I look, I only find thought. When thought is absent no self at all is to be found.

What seems like intention is also thought. And thought is just happening.

However, within the virtual reality of thought, thought still seems able to focus on certain thoughts or even generate specific thoughts. Likewise it still seems able to create sensations felt within the body.

I hope this does not sound too confused.

[Bananafish]

within the virtual reality of thought, thought still seems able to focus on certain thoughts or even generate specific thoughts. Likewise it still seems able to create sensations felt within the body.

Yes, that's another story, a virtual reality. Within a story,
a boy can make a broom fly.


What makes it a problem?

[emptyself]

Yes, that's another story, a virtual reality. Within a story,
a boy can make a broom fly.
What makes it a problem?

Either the penny dropped or I went crazy over night. I must have taken the red pill.

I wondered about your question before going to bed (what on earth does Bananafish mean?).

This morning I awoke, lay in bed with something dawning on me.

And then there it was. The absolute utter obviousness of No Self. Not like several weeks ago where I was starting to see. But now utter obviousness. The seeing of the virtual reality created by thought, and the stories within it.

It is an hour and half since this hit me fully. I am still trying to catch up and find explanations and words. Logic seems redundant - it is the language of thought.

I am finally understanding the Zen story of before enlightenment and afterwards - chopping wood - carrying water.

It doesn't seem this can be lost now - it is so obvious. It is like awakening from a dream.

No time to process further right now. Kids to take to school. Work to attend to.

[Bananafish]

Hahaha!!

It always feels great to see this change of the tone in the writings of the one whom I'm guiding. :)
The clarity shines from the passage and it's so obvious!


Any doubts, problems, issues you want to further explore?

[emptyself]

It has been an interesting number of hours:

firstly the elation of finally seeing the obvious and the sense of freedom that brought

then several hours of emotions - crying - heart chakra opening - joy - happiness - sadness - feeling as if every suppressed emotion was trying to get out.

All of this is somewhat dulled now because I am at work and having to focus on other things.

But the seeing is unmistakable - no doubts at this stage. In fact, not really interested right now in trying to understand anything.

I shall have to let it sit a while and see what happens

Needless to say Bananafish, I am immensely grateful - you have guided me to an awakening I doubted would ever happen. Thank you so much.