I Need Guidance

[Noobstorm]

This human organism is the self.

No, the organism is what it is. No organ of self involved.

It is labelled "I."

Yes, the organism is labeled "self" or Ali. If you changed your name does the organism change ?

Thoughts and movements come from the human(self).

No, they come from the organism.

I can't just point to someone and say "you don't exist."

Not unless you want to get put in an insane asylum. But when i look at people now i don't see a self, just a conditioned organism with stories. (the same when i think about 'me') This leads to an outpouring of compassion.
Ali, you are not being asked to kill a self or to change the organism or even to change thoughts (these things will happen without Doing them)
We are simply trying to show you what already exists. To show you how things really work. To expose reality.
It's your stories that obscure reality, then the reactions to those stories become a reality (with suffering)
When you wake up and remember a dream, what happens to your relationship with the characters in the dream?

When I wake up and remember the dream my relationship with the characters are nothing.

If I change my name no the organism doesn't change.

What I'm trying to say is that I know everything doesn't come from a thought. But this thought is representing where it's coming from which is the organism you speak of.

[Noobstorm]

What I'm trying to say is that I know everything doesn't come from a thought. But this thought is representing where it's coming from which is the organism you speak of.

Representing where things are coming from I mean

[vinceschubert]

Yes, it represents the organism. The same as a label or a name, but it is Not IT.
Can you see that for the sake of language/communication self is used and that (perhaps centuries ago) it became confused with reality. It stopped representing the organism and people started to believe that it Was IT ?

[Noobstorm]

Yes, it represents the organism. The same as a label or a name, but it is Not IT.
Can you see that for the sake of language/communication self is used and that (perhaps centuries ago) it became confused with reality. It stopped representing the organism and people started to believe that it Was IT ?

I think so.. people started to believe the description of the organism to be something real.

[Cam-RT]

Hey Noob...

Ya, human being...

Human = The organism.

Being = ??<-----Without all that "thought" what's left??

[Noobstorm]

Hey Noob...

Ya, human being...

Human = The organism.

Being = ??<-----Without all that "thought" what's left??

I always thought human and human being were the same thing.

Anyway, without thought there is only the human there.

[Cam-RT]

Goodmorning Noob..

Anyway, without thought there is only the human there.

So a human, just living life...it's automatic the body does it's job perfectly...No liver required (Not the organ)

So without the body/mind...Do you Exist??

[Noobstorm]

Goodmorning Noob..

Anyway, without thought there is only the human there.

So a human, just living life...it's automatic the body does it's job perfectly...No liver required (Not the organ)

So without the body/mind...Do you Exist??

No, without the body and mind I don't exist.

I'll need to keep looking though.

[Cam-RT]

Hey Noob...

Good, so far we're on the same page...Okay, now in essense your a being, with thoughts, housed inside of a body, and living out life on this planet...Temporarily.

So all these thoughts should be pointing back to something real...Here in real life, but they can't because nothing is there!!

Still with me??

So who is " I " ?

[Noobstorm]

So all these thoughts should be pointing back to something real...Here in real life, but they can't because nothing is there!!?

"I" is pointing to the body and mind and both are real. I need more clarification about this.

[Cam-RT]

Hello Noob...

"I" is pointing to the body and mind and both are real. I need more clarification about this.

" I " is a thought structure...How is " I " Real??

The human body, is an organism...Labeled male/female and has a name for reference Purposes..again just labels.

The "being" within is formless, the brain supports thought...Neither can sustain life, here in real life.

Consider animals for a moment, they live their life's aware of there surroundings and follow instinct throughout their life's to survive, breed and raise their young the same as we do (essentially) as did our distant ancestors before society was created...I'm not saying to go live in cave somewhere. But what I am saying is liberation is a process of unlearning what is learned. THIS is what we are pointing at simply. There is NO SUCH ENTITY AS A SELF. Society has (whether purposely or not), trained us to believe that there is a separate entity that represents a being other than our own.

Does this make sense? or better yet take a look!...Is this true??

So who is "I "?

What IS " I " ??

[Noobstorm]

So who is "I "?

What IS " I " ??

I am a thought. I am a description of the mind/body, and my characteristics are descriptions of this description. In other words, I am a mental construct. A thought doesn't have control over the human body or mind.

[Cam-RT]

Hey Noob, Excellent!!

So are you just saying what you think I want to hear, or does this feel genuine??

Anyway let's see where your at...Please answer these questions and feel free to elaborate as much as you see fit.

1)  Is there a 'me' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2)   Explain in detail what the illusion of self is, when it starts and how it works.

[Noobstorm]

Hey Noob, Excellent!!

So are you just saying what you think I want to hear, or does this feel genuine??

Anyway let's see where your at...Please answer these questions and feel free to elaborate as much as you see fit.

1)  Is there a 'me' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2)   Explain in detail what the illusion of self is, when it starts and how it works.

It is not genuine.. maybe this is only understood this on an intellectual level. I don't feel any different and my perspective is still the same.

1) No, there is no thinker of thoughts or liver of life.

2) At a young age children are taught to identify themselves with thought "I." Then they start forming stories around this thought, and never really questioned it. I didn't even think about what "I" is referring to before I went to this website.

[Noobstorm]

Was there ever?

No, because there is no one controlling this "I" thought.