Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

I forgot to address the following from your post which lead me to give you the exercises for you to look to see if you can choose what you are aware of,

I get glimpses of the seamless flow all at once, then it's like I have to go through them again one by one, sound, sensation, colour, thought to get another experience of it all at once.

So, looking at what you wrote, can you choose what you are aware of in any given moment? If it seems that the focus is on thought, did you choose to only be aware of thought?

Have a look and see how many things you can actually be aware of in one moment. If you are just focussing on sound, what else are you aware of at the same time wthout losing focus on the sound? If attention is on thought, is there anything else that you are aware of? Or does what is being focussed on become the main experience in the moment?

Can you actually be aware of thought, sound, smell, taste, sensation and colour all at the one time as an ongoing seamless experience?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

I want you to look at a table. Let’s say your table is the colour brown.

Now, IGNORE the label ‘table’ and you are left with the colour ‘brown’.
IGNORE the label ‘table’ and ‘brown’ and you are left with the label ‘colour’.
IGNORE the label ‘table’ and ‘brown’ and ‘colour’ and what is actually there?
Without any thoughts/labels what is actually there?

Without 'thoughts' & 'labels' there is nothing there. It's thought that creates the so called world with labels, colour, size, shape etc, if all these are stripped and thoughts are ignored then how can it be explained.

Can a feeling choose anything? Whether that ‘feeling’ be an idea or a sensation, can either of those choose anything?

No, a feeling an idea or a sensation can not choose anything, How can they ? they are only labels that point to
experience

So, what’s going on for you with everything we have done so far?

It's been a rollercoaster ride to be fair, there are times when I read your daily questions and 'look' and seeing of the latest exercise is quite clear, other times It comes later. There is a feeling of frustration when seeing is not there, when I can't put it together. As from the last few days there has been a definite dropping away of the seriousness of a 'Me'. The one I felt I always had to defend, to protect from other so called people, what is opening up is an understanding that there is no 'Me' or others to make choices & decisions. I had previously always felt uncomfortable around people as I was always 'wary' of peoples reactions when I stuttered, but what is being seen now is that these other so called people (along with everything else) are running on auto-pilot and there is no one in them bodies to be responsible for what they say or do. So a lightness is arising, like a falling away of the need to resist what is coming. Also I have seen that it is thought that creates 'everything', from a table to a house, to a person, to a planet. If I look at the moon, is it really 250,000 miles away, or is it right here in my experience appearing as colour labelled moon (thought). I also cannot find a link between arising thoughts (stories) and apparent sensations in the body, that I previously assumed were being triggered by the thoughts (stories). I am enjoying this 'seeing' as each new realisation as the exercise is seen through is another small piece of the illusion seen through.

Hope this helps
Love M

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,
I thought I'd respond to your 2nd post separately.

So, looking at what you wrote, can you choose what you are aware of in any given moment? If it seems that the focus is on thought, did you choose to only be aware of thought?

No, I can't. When the focus is on thought, the thought 'I'' shifted focus to thought is another thought, there is no one choosing anything, they are just what is appearing.

Have a look and see how many things you can actually be aware of in one moment. If you are just focussing on sound, what else are you aware of at the same time without losing focus on the sound? If attention is on thought, is there anything else that you are aware of? Or does what is being focussed on become the main experience in the moment?

I was listening to sound (clock ticking ) feeling sensation (pinching my leg) seeing colour (looking at trees from window), no I wasn't aware of anything else.In that moment that is 'All' that is appearing.

Can you actually be aware of thought, sound, smell, taste, sensation and colour all at the one time as an ongoing seamless experience?

No I couldn't experience all of them simultaneously, I could see (colour) hear (clock) feel (legs) but when I tried to smell & taste my breakfast at the same time, only 1 or 2 appeared, the rest disappeared.

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

I want you to look at a table. Let’s say your table is the colour brown.

Now, IGNORE the label ‘table’ and you are left with the colour ‘brown’.
IGNORE the label ‘table’ and ‘brown’ and you are left with the label ‘colour’.
IGNORE the label ‘table’ and ‘brown’ and ‘colour’ and what is actually there?
Without any thoughts/labels what is actually there?

Without 'thoughts' & 'labels' there is nothing there. It's thought that creates the so called world with labels, colour, size, shape etc, if all these are stripped and thoughts are ignored then how can it be explained.

There is never nothing! Even nothing is experience appearing as nothing! There is THIS/experience appearing exactly as it is. It is only thought that divides it into ‘things’ such as tables, colour etc and then divides it even further by sound that the colour is brown! Look around your loungeroom and drop all labels, all there is THIS appearing exactly as it is. It is only thought that labels it a loungeroom with a TV, couch, etc.

Silence is no different to sound. Only thought says some 'thing' isn't there.
Darkness is just a colour, like any other, no different from light. Thought labels darkness as the absence of some 'thing' but it is no less knowing/known than light is. Empty space is no different to solid matter, it is still a some 'thing', not a lack of some 'thing'. Nothing can be missing and nothing can be empty. All these are ‘made of’ experience and are therefore nothing could ever be missing or empty!

So, what’s going on for you with everything we have done so far?

It's been a rollercoaster ride to be fair, there are times when I read your daily questions and 'look' and seeing of the latest exercise is quite clear, other times It comes later. There is a feeling of frustration when seeing is not there, when I can't put it together.

And when this frustration appears, do you LOOK to see what it is exactly that is frustrated?

As from the last few days there has been a definite dropping away of the seriousness of a 'Me'. The one I felt I always had to defend, to protect from other so called people, what is opening up is an understanding that there is no 'Me' or others to make choices & decisions.

Great to hear that there is an understanding opening up, however, is there also seeing that there is no separate self when you LOOK?

So a lightness is arising, like a falling away of the need to resist what is coming.

Lovely!

Okay, looking at time, there is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Any actual experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Love, Kay

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

So, looking at what you wrote, can you choose what you are aware of in any given moment? If it seems that the focus is on thought, did you choose to only be aware of thought?

No, I can't. When the focus is on thought, the thought 'I'' shifted focus to thought is another thought, there is no one choosing anything, they are just what is appearing.

Yes and when the focus goes to only sound, say, then that is what is happening

Have a look and see how many things you can actually be aware of in one moment. If you are just focussing on sound, what else are you aware of at the same time without losing focus on the sound? If attention is on thought, is there anything else that you are aware of? Or does what is being focussed on become the main experience in the moment?

I was listening to sound (clock ticking ) feeling sensation (pinching my leg) seeing colour (looking at trees from window), no I wasn't aware of anything else. In that moment that is 'All' that is appearing.

Yes, but when you were pinching your leg, how in focus what the sound? Was the sound as clear as it was when you were just focussing on sound? Could you choose which one you were going to focus on and which was going to go to the background?


Just like the drink exercise when you were choosing between drink A and drink B.
1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

When you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

Can you actually be aware of thought, sound, smell, taste, sensation and colour all at the one time as an ongoing seamless experience?

No I couldn't experience all of them simultaneously, I could see (colour) hear (clock) feel (legs) but when I tried to smell & taste my breakfast at the same time, only 1 or 2 appeared, the rest disappeared.

Yes, exactly. So how can it be possible to be aware of the totality of AE all at once at any given time?

If experiencing AE in its totality ie sound, colour, sensation etc, all at once, was the goal of this exploration, then we’d be in a quandary!
Can you see that having “experience of a seamless flow” is just a thought, and having an “experience of a seamless flow” is not the realisation that there is no separate self?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,
I have tried to answer the 2 posts in one here to catch up :)

And when this frustration appears, do you LOOK to see what it is exactly that is frustrated?

When the 'frustration' arises I just think it is linked to the current thought and I ignore the thinking, or I realise it will pass quickly if I don't 'believe' the thoughts. By 'looking' is that to ask the frustration it the sensation is coming from a 'Me' that is frustrated or is it just a sensation ?

Great to hear that there is an understanding opening up, however, is there also seeing that there is no separate self when you LOOK?

When I am doing these exercises there is a seeing that there is no me making decisions, choosing etc, but for most of the day in work there is a sense of a 'Me' still making decisions yes, like a person who reacts to different things in the moment, then now & then there is a questioning of this 'Me', like I'll look at myself interacting with people and I'm questioning 'who' is the one speaking, moving here, if it's not me then what is it ?

Okay, looking at time, there is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?

In AE the 'now' is always experienced in this moment, an arising of sensation, sound, seeing etc that never leaves, it is not moving in time no, it is always constant.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No, in AE there is only one moment. There is a constant seeing, hearing, feeling etc, it never moves to another moment

Any actual experience of one event following another?

No, no event ever follows another, all experiences are always 'now'

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

The present moving isn't moving fast or slow, it 'never' moves, it ijust is.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No I can't, for there to be a beginning it would have to be in time, it always is this present experience

How long does the ‘now’ last?

For it to last would mean it was in time, when the now never moves, therefore is not bound by time

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

The 'now' has no start of finish, it is always experienced in this moment.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

It never does, as it never moves, thought divides the now into past

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

In AE the 'past' is a thought/image

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

There is no AE of time, thoughts point to a past, a future but this is just thought, there is only ever now

Yes, but when you were pinching your leg, how in focus what the sound? Was the sound as clear as it was when you were just focussing on sound? Could you choose which one you were going to focus on and which was going to go to the background?

When I was pinching my leg, there was still an experience of sound, but it seemed less noticeable, like quieter, more in the background. Whichever one was focussed on was the one that became more apparent, 'alive' for want of a better word, It still feels like I was choosing there but I can never find a chooser if that makes sense. It still feels like I am choosing to move from sensation to sound etc

When you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

I cannot find a me that chose the sequence of events or shut down the preferences no. There was no experience of a mental function or faculty which chose anything, just a seamless flow from preferences to counting. No i've never witnessed a faculty or mental function in action, or a chooser for that matter.


If experiencing AE in its totality ie sound, colour, sensation etc, all at once, was the goal of this exploration, then we’d be in a quandary!

Can you see that having “experience of a seamless flow” is just a thought, and having an “experience of a seamless flow” is not the realisation that there is no separate self?

Well thank 'F@*k' for that !! 2 hours was spent trying to experience sound, sensation, colour, smell & taste all at once with zero success. Yes a seamless flow is just a thought/idea, and how could an AE of a seamless flow be a realisation of a separate self ?

Hope this helps
Love M

[forgetmenot]

Hello Mark,

And when this frustration appears, do you LOOK to see what it is exactly that is frustrated?

When the 'frustration' arises I just think it is linked to the current thought and I ignore the thinking, or I realise it will pass quickly if I don't 'believe' the thoughts. By 'looking' is that to ask the frustration it the sensation is coming from a 'Me' that is frustrated or is it just a sensation ?

What exactly is it that doesn’t “believe the thoughts” or does“believe thoughts” for that matter? Where is this “I” located and what does it look like?
What exactly is it that can IGNORE thoughts?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it is only through LOOKING that the realisation happens. And yes, this constant looking can become tedious, however, just jumping from A to Z without looking means nothing. It is the actual looking and not finding a separate self that does the job.

LOOKING/Inquire:-
Does the label ‘frustration’ know anything about frustration?
Does the sensation labelled ‘frustration’ know anything about frustration?
Does the colour/image labelled ‘me’ know anything about frustration?
Then have a look everywhere and see if you can find that which is frustrated.
If not, then how can a label, sensation and colour be frustrated? Was a separate self found anywhere or what was actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT a "me being frustrated".

Great to hear that there is an understanding opening up, however, is there also seeing that there is no separate self when you LOOK?

When I am doing these exercises there is a seeing that there is no me making decisions, choosing etc, but for most of the day in work there is a sense of a 'Me' still making decisions yes, like a person who reacts to different things in the moment, then now & then there is a questioning of this 'Me', like I'll look at myself interacting with people and I'm questioning 'who' is the one speaking, moving here, if it's not me then what is it ?

So there is an expectation that the “sense of me” will disappear? And that the idea of a “me” making decisions will also disappear? There has never been a separate self….ever and yet the ‘sense of me’ and the feeling that “I am making decision and choices” and “I control my life” have always appeared. Why would they now disappear because it is seen that they are thought stories?

When you realised that Santa Claus was a myth, other than your perception of Santa and Christmas changing, did anything else change? Did Santa and Christmas disappear? No! Christmas still comes around once a year. Santa Claus yelling ‘ho ho ho’ and ringing a bell still appears on every street corner. Carols are still sung and gifts are still exchanged and turkey is still eaten. The separate self is a myth like Santa, and yet there is still an expectation that things should change. You don’t become a feelingless, thoughtless roboton!

Yes, but when you were pinching your leg, how in focus what the sound? Was the sound as clear as it was when you were just focussing on sound? Could you choose which one you were going to focus on and which was going to go to the background?

When I was pinching my leg, there was still an experience of sound, but it seemed less noticeable, like quieter, more in the background. Whichever one was focussed on was the one that became more apparent, 'alive' for want of a better word, It still feels like I was choosing there but I can never find a chooser if that makes sense. It still feels like I am choosing to move from sensation to sound etc

And what would it feel like not to be a chooser?

Are you the author/chooser/owner of thought? Can you predict what thoughts are going to appear?

When you did the choice-awareness exercise, could you choose what you were aware of? So what if thought appears and says “but it still feels like I am choosing”.

Does it matter what thoughts appear and what they say? Does the LOOKING and actual seeing confirm or contradict what thought says?

I cannot find a me that chose the sequence of events or shut down the preferences no. There was no experience of a mental function or faculty which chose anything, just a seamless flow from preferences to counting. No i've never witnessed a faculty or mental function in action, or a chooser for that matter.

Okay, so if there is no separate self “me” found when LOOKING, where does it hide when you are not LOOKING?

If experiencing AE in its totality ie sound, colour, sensation etc, all at once, was the goal of this exploration, then we’d be in a quandary!
Can you see that having “experience of a seamless flow” is just a thought, and having an “experience of a seamless flow” is not the realisation that there is no separate self?

Well thank 'F@*k' for that !! 2 hours was spent trying to experience sound, sensation, colour, smell & taste all at once with zero success. Yes a seamless flow is just a thought/idea, and how could an AE of a seamless flow be a realisation of a separate self ?

I know it’s not the realisation that there is NO separate self, but I am doubly sure I don’t know how it could be a realisation of a separate self??

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hello Kay,

What exactly is it that doesn’t “believe the thoughts” or does“believe thoughts” for that matter? Where is this “I” located and what does it look like?

The believing or not believing in thoughts is itself a thought, No 'I' can be found, only arising thoughts/stories about an 'I', There is a 'Knowing' of these thoughts, but nothing can be found that is separate from the thoughts. It cannot be seen as it isn't there.

What exactly is it that can IGNORE thoughts?

God knows where this illusory 'I' was going with the last post as the ignoring of a thought is another thought of a 'self' that is ignoring thoughts. All 'thoughts' of a separate self that is doing this an that are no more real that the thoughts of a beautiful sunset when the Tv is being watched.


At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it is only through LOOKING that the realisation happens. And yes, this constant looking can become tedious, however, just jumping from A to Z without looking means nothing. It is the actual looking and not finding a separate self that does the job.

LOOKING/Inquire:-

Does the label ‘frustration’ know anything about frustration?

No, it is a sensation that thought labels 'frustration' and says this sensation is what frustration is.

Does the sensation labelled ‘frustration’ know anything about frustration?

No it doesn't, frustration is a story by thought pointing to a sensation.

Does the colour/image labelled ‘me’ know anything about frustration?

No, a colour has no reasoning to decide if it is frustrated or not.

Then have a look everywhere and see if you can find that which is frustrated.

If not, then how can a label, sensation and colour be frustrated? Was a separate self found anywhere or what was actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT a "me being frustrated".

Nothing can be found which is frustrated. There are only thoughts pointing to a 'Me' that is frustrated, what is being seen here is that these thought stories have been pointing to sensation for 46 years and labelling it this an that, frustration, fear, excitement, anxiety etc when in actual fact it's just an amorphous sensation that thought is labelling and creating a story around.

So there is an expectation that the “sense of me” will disappear? And that the idea of a “me” making decisions will also disappear? There has never been a separate self….ever and yet the ‘sense of me’ and the feeling that “I am making decision and choices” and “I control my life” have always appeared. Why would they now disappear because it is seen that they are thought stories?

There will always be sensation/feelings that thoughts create a story around, 'Mark is feeling happy, Mark is feeling fearful etc', this has been seen now, an why would it all of a sudden cease to stop ? Maybe if there was an expectation that when the 'No' self was seen through things would change for the better, but isn't this too just another set of thoughts pointing to
another happier story ? There is no me to control, change, make appear, make disappear or shape any thoughts. Thoughts will always point to AE or to other thoughts, how can I change that when what I am is the 'Knowing' of all of this

And what would it feel like not to be a chooser?

I don't know what it would feel like not to choose, well thought could say it would feel like this or feel like that, but whats the point in taking any notice of thought when it makes things up. Then again, it could feel like experiencing without a story to go with it.

Are you the author/chooser/owner of thought? Can you predict what thoughts are going to appear?

No, there is no owner, author or chooser. Again no, thoughts just appear, how can 'I' predict them when I am the knowing of them, how can a knowing change or predict anything ? it just experiences, like thoughts, some point to what is being experienced, sensation, sound, colour etc an some point back to the original thought of sound say, 'This is too loud, high pitch etc' but they are not negotiable in there content, they just are what they are and there is no 'I' to change them.

When you did the choice-awareness exercise, could you choose what you were aware of? So what if thought appears and says “but it still feels like I am choosing”.

Does it matter what thoughts appear and what they say? Does the LOOKING and actual seeing confirm or contradict what thought says?

No it doesn't matter, an opinion of mattering or not mattering is itself another thought. The 'looking' is just looking at what is there, how can a 'looking' confirm or contradict anything ? it is just observing what is the latest thought/story but has no influence over the content.

Okay, so if there is no separate self “me” found when LOOKING, where does it hide when you are not LOOKING?

Ha, it hides in a thought about itself being real and hiding when that separate self is no longer looking. Okay, I see, how can a 'knowing' be a separate self, it just experiences, the separate self is a thought/story which is also being experienced

I know it’s not the realisation that there is NO separate self, but I am doubly sure I don’t know how it could be a realisation of a separate self??

Only thought can create a separate self, which is more yawn yawn 'bullshit'

Love M

[forgetmenot]

Hi Mark,

Then have a look everywhere and see if you can find that which is frustrated.
If not, then how can a label, sensation and colour be frustrated? Was a separate self found anywhere or what was actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT a "me being frustrated".

Nothing can be found which is frustrated. There are only thoughts pointing to a 'Me' that is frustrated, what is being seen here is that these thought stories have been pointing to sensation for 46 years and labelling it this an that, frustration, fear, excitement, anxiety etc when in actual fact it's just an amorphous sensation that thought is labelling and creating a story around.

Yes. Does the the thought “I am frustrated” contain any frustration. Replace that thought with “blahblahblah” and what remains?

So there is an expectation that the “sense of me” will disappear? And that the idea of a “me” making decisions will also disappear? There has never been a separate self….ever and yet the ‘sense of me’ and the feeling that “I am making decision and choices” and “I control my life” have always appeared. Why would they now disappear because it is seen that they are thought stories?

There will always be sensation/feelings that thoughts create a story around, 'Mark is feeling happy, Mark is feeling fearful etc', this has been seen now, an why would it all of a sudden cease to stop ? Maybe if there was an expectation that when the 'No' self was seen through things would change for the better, but isn't this too just another set of thoughts pointing to another happier story ? There is no me to control, change, make appear, make disappear or shape any thoughts. Thoughts will always point to AE or to other thoughts, how can I change that when what I am is the 'Knowing' of all of this

Yes, thought doesn't stop telling you that it's your car, your job, your body, your craving, your preference, your pain, your happiness, your this and your that. Thought does not stop saying something just because it's seen what thoughts are. It's never been any other way. So it is only an expectation that thought will suddenly change its tune.

It seems you are identifying with 'knowing' at the time being? Is this 'knowing' something separate from all the rest?
Noticing happens - how do you know 'knowing' is what notices?
Does 'knowing' have a shape, a location, a weight? Can you point to this 'knowing'?
Is there a ‘knowing’ and ‘known’? What exactly is it that is ‘knowing’?

When you did the choice-awareness exercise, could you choose what you were aware of? So what if thought appears and says “but it still feels like I am choosing”.
Does it matter what thoughts appear and what they say? Does the LOOKING and actual seeing confirm or contradict what thought says?

No it doesn't matter, an opinion of mattering or not mattering is itself another thought. The 'looking' is just looking at what is there, how can a 'looking' confirm or contradict anything ? it is just observing what is the latest thought/story but has no influence over the content.

Well when LOOKING, if thought says that “I am choosing” and when you look for that ‘chooser’, and a chooser is not found. Then is it not the looking that is showing you that what thought is pointing to is a load of old cods wallop?

Okay, so if there is no separate self “me” found when LOOKING, where does it hide when you are not LOOKING?

Ha, it hides in a thought about itself being real and hiding when that separate self is no longer looking. Okay, I see, how can a 'knowing' be a separate self, it just experiences, the separate self is a thought/story which is also being experienced

What is it exactly that experiences? Does the body experience? Does colour experience? Does thought, sound, smell, taste or sensation experience?

When sound shows up, is there a 'sound experience' and a 'knowing of sound' experience? Is there experience, and an experience of the awareness/knowing of experience?

Can you find anyone/anything that is different from the experience that is appearing? Is there an inside and an outside of experience?

Does experience itself need taste to know itself, or sound to know itself, or colour, thought, sensation or smell to know itself?


Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,
Hope your well and thanks again for doing this for me :)

Yes. Does the the thought “I am frustrated” contain any frustration. Replace that thought with “blahblahblah” and what remains?

I focused on a sensation for this an called in 'Frustration'. Then replaced the thought 'this is frustration' with 'blah blah blah', the sensation never changed, so does it really matter what thought says about the sensation, it could call it 'love' instead of 'frustration' but it wouldnt change that it's still just a sensation.

It seems you are identifying with 'knowing' at the time being? Is this 'knowing' something separate from all the rest?

A seperation of 'knowing' cannot be found, no Knower of the knowing, only known. Example, the birds singing outside is sound + thought (birds singing), is there a 'Me' knower of the experience (birds singing), no there is just a 'Knowing' that is the experience of sound'thought (birds singing)

Noticing happens - how do you know 'knowing' is what notices?

Knowing does not notice the arising experience, it is the arising experience, not a knower of experience only knowing/known as one

Does 'knowing' have a shape, a location, a weight? Can you point to this 'knowing'?

Knowing is not a thing, it doesn't exist to have a shape, weight or location. No it can't be pointed to

Is there a ‘knowing’ and ‘known’? What exactly is it that is ‘knowing’?

No, there is only knowing/known as one. I couldn't find a knower

Well when LOOKING, if thought says that “I am choosing” and when you look for that ‘chooser’, and a chooser is not found. Then is it not the looking that is showing you that what thought is pointing to is a load of old cods wallop?

Yes it is, it's the looking at the thoughts an checking there content to see if what they are pointing to is nonsense 'separate self' a chooser

What is it exactly that experiences? Does the body experience? Does colour experience? Does thought, sound, smell, taste or sensation experience?

An 'it' that experiences cannot be found, only the experincing of colour, thought, smell, taste, sensation as experiencingexperience

When sound shows up, is there a 'sound experience' and a 'knowing of sound' experience? Is there experience, and an experience of the awareness/knowing of experience?

No there is not 'sound experience' and a 'knowing of sound experience' only a knowing of sound which is the experience

Can you find anyone/anything that is different from the experience that is appearing? Is there an inside and an outside of experience?

Nothing different from the experience can be found, no inside or outside, only appearing as experience

Does experience itself need taste to know itself, or sound to know itself, or colour, thought, sensation or smell to know itself?

Withought experience how can sound, colour, thought, sensation or smell be known, these are known as 'experience', withought them is there is no knowing of them, if they don't arise they don't exist

Took much looking this, not sure if there was good understanding of the questions

Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hello Mark,

Yes. Does the the thought “I am frustrated” contain any frustration. Replace that thought with “blahblahblah” and what remains?

I focused on a sensation for this an called in 'Frustration'. Then replaced the thought 'this is frustration' with 'blah blah blah', the sensation never changed, so does it really matter what thought says about the sensation, it could call it 'love' instead of 'frustration' but it wouldnt change that it's still just a sensation.

Yes exactly! Replacing thoughts with “blahblahblah” brings it back to bare bones to see what IS and not what thought says is.

It seems you are identifying with 'knowing' at the time being? Is this 'knowing' something separate from all the rest?

A seperation of 'knowing' cannot be found, no Knower of the knowing, only known.

Knowing and known = knowingknown - one and the same....no division....no separation. There is no experience AND sensation, for example. There is just experience itself which thought then divides into pieces ie sound, colour, thought etc. There is no knower of experience and of what is seemingly experienced (ie what experience SEEMINGLY appears as). A known can't know, and knowing can't be a known. Known IS knowing. Knowing IS known. Not two.

Example, the birds singing outside is sound + thought (birds singing), is there a 'Me' knower of the experience (birds singing), no there is just a 'Knowing' that is the experience of sound'thought (birds singing)

Yes, there is only knowing/experience appearing AS soundthought

Noticing happens - how do you know 'knowing' is what notices?

Knowing does not notice the arising experience, it is the arising experience, not a knower of experience only knowing/known as one

Yes, lovely Mark! Experience is appearing as sound, but experience does not become the sound. If experience became the sound, then experience would disappear when the sound disappeared and then nothing would exist…not even experience itself!

Does 'knowing' have a shape, a location, a weight? Can you point to this 'knowing'?

Knowing is not a thing, it doesn't exist to have a shape, weight or location. No it can't be pointed to

Yep…thought tries really hard to describe experience…but what this IS…is indescribable.

Is there a ‘knowing’ and ‘known’? What exactly is it that is ‘knowing’?

No, there is only knowing/known as one. I couldn't find a knower

Nice LOOKING :)

What is it exactly that experiences? Does the body experience? Does colour experience? Does thought, sound, smell, taste or sensation experience?

An 'it' that experiences cannot be found, only the experincing of colour, thought, smell, taste, sensation as experiencingexperience

Is there an experience of colour AND thought AND smell AND taste AND sensation? Does that not point to separation? Is there an AND?

Soundtastesmellthoughtcoloursensation = experience/THIS and experience is aware of itself. Experience does not reside in anything. It is not contained by anyone/anything. Experience is THIS appearing exactly as it is. There is no experience of X as X IS experience.

When sound shows up, is there a 'sound experience' and a 'knowing of sound' experience? Is there experience, and an experience of the awareness/knowing of experience?

No there is not 'sound experience' and a 'knowing of sound experience' only a knowing of sound which is the experience

Experience/awareness/Knowing/consciousness/Isness/God….whatever you want to call it is the What IS/THIS. Sound is not the experience. Experience is seemingly appearing as sound but it is only thought that says sound is sound and not experience itself.

Can you find anyone/anything that is different from the experience that is appearing? Is there an inside and an outside of experience?

Nothing different from the experience can be found, no inside or outside, only appearing as experience

Okay so is thought different to sound, and is colour different to smell, and is taste different to sensation or are they just simply thoughtsoundcoloursmelltastesensation ie experience/THIS.

Does experience itself need taste to know itself, or sound to know itself, or colour, thought, sensation or smell to know itself?

Withought experience how can sound, colour, thought, sensation or smell be known, these are known as 'experience', withought them is there is no knowing of them, if they don't arise they don't exist

Experience is appearing as sound, thought, smell, taste etc. Sound, taste thought etc are not appearing as experience.

Experience/THIS is not a tree, the tree is experience/THIS!
And there is that subtle difference which is so easily overlooked!
All these things will always be experience, but experience will never be one of those things. This includes sound and thought and taste etc

Took much looking this, not sure if there was good understanding of the questions

You did a great job of looking. I have only highlighted a couple of questions as once you have read my responses I want you to LOOK and see what I am pointing at. I don't want you to just take my word for it, but to LOOK for yourself to see if what I am pointing at can be seen. Then once you have LOOKED, please comment or pose questions on what I have written, and we can go from there. Take your time....no rush :)

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

Is there an experience of colour AND thought AND smell AND taste AND sensation? Does that not point to separation? Is there an AND?

Eyes are closed, sound is being experienced (birds singing), sensation is being experienced (legs on bed) taste is being experienced (drinking coffee), thought is being experienced, thought labels the sound as birds singing, the sensation as legs on bed, the taste as sweet coffee, when in actual fact there is no separation of the experience, there is only this, which thought lables, birds singing, legs on bed, sweet coffee, then further lables as sound, sensation, taste. Without any lables there is only the experience of this. Withought thought it is indescribable.

Okay so is thought different to sound, and is colour different to smell, and is taste different to sensation or are they just simply thoughtsoundcoloursmelltastesensation ie experience/THIS.

Withought lables there is only experience/this. If I back engineer the 'This' through what is being experienced then we go experience (sound, sensation, colour, taste, smell, thought) & sound (birds) sensation (legs) colour (white) taste (sweet) thought (image). So to answer the question thought is only different to sound when 'thought' divides it into sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation, thought, then sub-divides, birds, blue, sweet, bitter, cold, image, all thoughts disecting the moment/this

I was a bit unsure if I was understanding the following comments so even though they weren't a 'question' I have highlited them an tried to give a breakdown of how I understand them.

Experience is appearing as sound, thought, smell, taste etc. Sound, taste thought etc are not appearing as experience.

For sound, taste, thoughts etc to appear as experience they would have to be separate from experience, they would have to exist as objects, when in actual fact they are appearing as experience which thought then labels sound thought smell etc

Experience/THIS is not a tree, the tree is experience/THIS!
And there is that subtle difference which is so easily overlooked!
All these things will always be experience, but experience will never be one of those things. This includes sound and thought and taste etc

Again, if the tree was experience/this it would point to separation, a subject and an object, when there is only experience which thought lables tree.
So there is only experiencing/this, it is thought which divides experience into all its various constituent parts, there is not even sound and colour and smell and sensation and taste it is all one experience arising as 'this'

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

Experience is appearing as sound, thought, smell, taste etc. Sound, taste thought etc are not appearing as experience.

For sound, taste, thoughts etc to appear as experience they would have to be separate from experience, they would have to exist as objects, when in actual fact they are appearing as experience which thought then labels sound thought smell etc

Experience is seemingly appearing as sound ,taste thought…only because thought divides experience/THIS/knowing into these categories. So no, in actual fact they are NOT appearing as experience.

Colour IS an appearance, and an "appearance" is just another word for THIS (or 'experience') exactly as it is.
Thought IS an appearance, and an "appearance" is just another word for THIS (or 'experience') exactly as it is.
Sound IS an appearance, and an "appearance" is just another word for THIS (or 'experience') exactly as it is.
Smell IS an appearance, and an "appearance" is just another word for THIS (or 'experience') exactly as it is.
Taste IS an appearance, and an "appearance" is just another word for THIS (or 'experience') exactly as it is.
Sensation IS an appearance, and an "appearance" is just another word for THIS (or 'experience') exactly as it is.

Colourthoughtsoundsmelltastesensation = experience/THIS
Experience/THIS is not aware of itself as lots of little pieces knowing themselves.

Experience/THIS is not a tree, the tree is experience/THIS!
And there is that subtle difference which is so easily overlooked!
All these things will always be experience, but experience will never be one of those things. This includes sound and thought and taste etc

Again, if the tree was experience/this it would point to separation, a subject and an object, when there is only experience which thought lables tree.
So there is only experiencing/this, it is thought which divides experience into all its various constituent parts, there is not even sound and colour and smell and sensation and taste it is all one experience arising as 'this'

Experience/THIS are one and the same, so experience can’t be arising as THIS when it is THIS. Experience/THIS SEEMS to appear as sound, thought etc but when you LOOK there is only experience/THIS exactly as it is, which thought divides into sound, thought, taste etc.

Let's do this with a visual

Look at this doodle. It looks like there are a lot of separate things…right? Let's say that the doodle is experience/THIS.



‘Things’ seemingly appear and there are never not 'things', but have a LOOK to see what is actually appearing.

What separates things? What makes up the borders? Can we pluck a thing out of the scenery in front of us? If not, is it truly separate or is it thought about variation in observed qualities which makes it so?

The next time you are watching television, look at the screen and see whether you can pluck an object from the scene. Are there objects existing inside the screen or is the image a seamless whole? What is it that makes it seem as though there are separate objects in the picture? Are they truly separated?


Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

What separates things? What makes up the borders? Can we pluck a thing out of the scenery in front of us? If not, is it truly separate or is it thought about variation in observed qualities which makes it so?

Looking at the doodle, it is all one. Thought then divides the one with colour, yellow & black, it then further divides the colour into shapes and names them cat, cup, hand, book, tree etc so in experience/this it is only one which is being divided into different 'things'. The same goes with the experience of now, thought divides it into a bedroom, tv, wall, ceiling, laptop, body, colour, sensation, hands typing, sound, birds singing etc when there is only experience/this which is being divided by thought.

The next time you are watching television, look at the screen and see whether you can pluck an object from the scene. Are there objects existing inside the screen or is the image a seamless whole? What is it that makes it seem as though there are separate objects in the picture? Are they truly separated?

Watching the Tv there is only a flat whole image which thought then divides into separation, people moving, colour, red, blue etc all is one whole, like the now which is being divided into a bedroom with its diffferent parts. When I close my eyes an focus on this moment, there is like an 'aliveness' that thought is dividing into sensation (legs arms body) sound (birds singing) colour (blackness) when there is only the experience of this moment and never another moment, just thought separating 'this'.

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

Okay, no questions left around that. We looked at time earlier...so now let's look at the idea of memory.

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened.
That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

What is memory exactly? – please don’t go to thought explanation, but just let a memory be there, and look at it…

What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say… but what actually is.

Love, Kay