Thread for Matias

[Matias]

I think that i undarstand well the text, but there are doubts about the traduction, i am searching this text in spanish, for more clearity

[Matias]

I know that what i will say it is not totally correct. Because if i dont understand wrong, in the reality there is no some thing perceived, that collapset. But i think that this text say that there is only the perceived, and not any more. I am right?
It seems really true for me, because that experience that i tell you about some years before.
But the mind say: that it is not posible, the perceived need some that perceive them. What do you think about this? can we work on this?


Thanks?

[Matias]

I know that what i will say it is not totally correct. Because if i dont understand wrong, in the reality there is no some thing perceived, that collapset. But i think that this text say that there is only the perceived, and not any more. I am right?
It seems really true for me, because that experience that i tell you about some years before.
But the mind say: that it is not posible, the perceived need some that perceive them. What do you think about this? can we work on this?


Thanks

[Matias]

Ilona, a question, there is some group of Liberation Unleashed for persons that are before "crossing the gate", persons in the same situation as me. Would be good to talk with people with the same confusions that i have and maybe can talk about this thing and investigate.

[Ilona]

Hm, I don’t think that confused people will help to clarify confused ideas.
What I can suggest that would be helpful is a Skype session with me. We can spend some quality time together and you can clarify for yourself with my guidance. How does that sound?

In the seen there is only seen- when eyes are open there are colours and shapes. Where is the seer? What colour or shape is the perceiver? Is there one perceived by vision?
Or are there just colours that are here?
When sound is heard, what sound is the perceiver? Is there one? Or just the sound that is heard?

Which perceiving channel informs about perceiver?
Is imagination = perceiving?

Is perceiver actually present or imagined?

Hope this helps.
Much love.

[Matias]

I send a message but it was not send.

Hm, I don’t think that confused people will help to clarify confused ideas.

Maybe not for clarity, but to make friend o know people in the same way that i am, and that have the same problems that i have. I am really distanced of my friends because they think that what i think is shit, and in some sense i too feel that what they think is wrong, they are trying to make themselves importants or comparing themselves, protecting some concept about themselves, and i am in the middle, it´s not confortable. People that is in "pregate" seems more open that people in nondual groups, that the mayority want to make you think what they think.

What I can suggest that would be helpful is a Skype session with me. We can spend some quality time together and you can clarify for yourself with my guidance. How does that sound?

That sound really good too.

In the seen there is only seen- when eyes are open there are colours and shapes. Where is the seer? What colour or shape is the perceiver? Is there one perceived by vision?

No, the seen doesn´t see... There is no perceiver perceived. But there is the strong sense that i am here perceiving.

When sound is heard, what sound is the perceiver? Is there one? Or just the sound that is heard?

No, the sound dont perceive. The sound is heared.

Is imagination = perceiving?

No, imagination don´t percive.

Which perceiving channel informs about perceiver?

I cant be precise in this. It is like a innate knowing that i am here, is really hard to say how i know that i am here.

Is perceiver actually present or imagined?

The sense of self seems like the most true, it feels like i can doubt about everything but the last thing that i can doubt is about the thing that i exist. But i know that can be true in this thing that "i dont exist" because that experience that show that.
But i think that it can be true, and i want to get to the end.


Keep looking, i know that this has to be true.


Thanks.

[Matias]

Maybe what i has to question myself is if exist something more that the perceived.

[Matias]

The point that there is to perceiving doesnt mean that there is something separated from the perceived perceinving them.
If there is hearing, doesn´t mean that there is something separated from the sound?

[Matias]

The point that there is perceiving doesnt mean that there is something separated from the perceived perceinving them?
If there is hearing, doesn´t mean that there is something separated from the sound?

[Matias]

I was seeing your exercise of seeing the label university. With countries it is the same, no? We think that Argentina exist, but Argentina like the other countries it is just a name, it is only mental, there is no real limits, Argentina exist only in our minds... there is only territory and the name Argentina and we think that that territory is Argentina. This is the same with the "I"?

[Matias]

?

[Ilona]

Yes, it is same with the I. A concept, that it is useful. But where is the I?
Where are the borders of the I?
Is it imagined or actual?
What is here without the I?

Keep writing!

[Matias]

Where are the borders of the I?
I was looking at this pointer, it is not easy to say where i am or what i am, or what are my limits. But i was observing this everyday feeling of being behind of the face(Sometimes the sense of location is not behind the face) seeing something outside and separated and distanced. And for one moment was like... "mmm, there is no face, nothing that divides...


I will write again with the others answers. If you want to coment something of this will be good.


Thanks.

[Matias]

Where are the borders of the I?

I was looking at this pointer, it is not easy to say where i am or what i am, or what are my limits. But i was observing this everyday feeling of being behind of the face(Sometimes the sense of location is not behind the face) seeing something outside and separated and distanced. And for one moment was like... "mmm, there is no face, nothing that divides...


I will write again with the others answers. If you want to coment something of this will be good.


Thanks.

[Ilona]

Nice! There is nothing that divides experience into experienced and experiencer. Good stuff
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