Seekin truth

[RoseyC]

Wesley,

Is awareness a thing? Do you feel yourself to be awareness?

Awareness is not a tangible thing. I am awareness awareing.

If the brain picks them up, where does it pick them up? Without thoughts, how is 'brain' experienced right now?

The brain (and nervous system) is experienced through sensations and perceptions.

Bingo! Without thoughts. Here and there throughout your day, perhaps you can play with this and just see what is from your senses and what is from thoughts. Try and differentiate these two.

It’s difficult to separate the two.

Well seen! Well, why don't you try to answer this - Is thought content real? Is there any single thing that exists in thoughts that is as real as what can be perceived through the senses?

No, I can’t find anything in thoughts that is real.

For example try this: close your eyes and as vividly possible imagine a cup of water. What does it look like? Is the water cold? Will it be refreshing when you drink it, will it quench your thirst? What will it feel like when the water touches your lips and goes down your throat? Now open your eyes, and if possible go take a drink of water from a cup.

I tried this and there is a huge difference. It also helps with the exercise above - separating the senses from the thoughts.

Thanks a bunch!!!
Rose

[WesleySPK]

Hi Rosey,

sorry busy day will write ASAP

[WesleySPK]

Hi Rosey,

I am awareness awareing.

So there is an 'I' who is 'awareness'? There is two? Where is this 'I' right now, can you locate it anywhere?

The brain (and nervous system) is experienced through sensations and perceptions.

Does this come from your senses or from thought assumptions? Look around you, where is 'brain' in the perception of seeing? Listen to all the sounds happening, where is brain in hearing? Where is the nervous system in the sensation from fingers on the keyboard?

Keep looking and listening until you are 100% sure whether these come from thoughts or from your senses.

It’s difficult to separate the two.

Yes, there have been many many years of the two being jumbled together, but the habit of looking will grow.

Hug,
Wesley

[RoseyC]

Hi Wesley,

This last round of questions was helpful.

So there is an 'I' who is 'awareness'? There is two? Where is this 'I' right now, can you locate it anywhere?

The awareness just is. There is no “I”. It’s all awareness - just one.

Does this come from your senses or from thought assumptions? Look around you, where is 'brain' in the perception of seeing? Listen to all the sounds happening, where is brain in hearing? Where is the nervous system in the sensation from fingers on the keyboard?

Ah, it comes from thought. The brain is not seen. It’s assumed to be working as are the nerves in the fingers.

It’s like we are peeling away the layers of programming!

Thank you,
Rose

[WesleySPK]

Hi Rosey,

Glad the questions are helpful!

The awareness just is. There is no “I”. It’s all awareness - just one.

But is awareness a 'thing'? Or is it more like a verb, an ongoing happening? If it's a thing that exists saying "awareness just is" is a bit like saying 'self just is' or "Santa just is". Where's the proof? It just is...Where? It just is...What?

Ah, it comes from thought. The brain is not seen. It’s assumed to be working as are the nerves in the fingers.

Well seen!

How about decisions, how do they work? Do 'you' decide, for example which coat you're going to put on, or the exact moment you will get out of your bed?

Hug,
Wesley

[RoseyC]

Hi Wesley,

I did not get around to posting yesterday. The questions left me kind of speechless - trying to find the words to describe something.

But is awareness a 'thing'? Or is it more like a verb, an ongoing happening? If it's a thing that exists saying "awareness just is" is a bit like saying 'self just is' or "Santa just is". Where's the proof? It just is...Where? It just is…What?

It is more like a verb. I don’t know what else I can say about it. No, it is not a thing. All one awareness. No real things. Self and Santa are not real.

How about decisions, how do they work? Do 'you' decide, for example which coat you're going to put on, or the exact moment you will get out of your bed?

Decisions, for me, work much like thoughts. They just happen and Later “I” take credit for it :>)

Looking forward to your reply,
Rose

[WesleySPK]

Hi Rosey,

Questions leaving you speechless, though it may seem a bit odd and uncomfortable is exactly what I like to hear ;). After all, you are looking for something which doesn't exist, so in a way this is a mission to fail. But usually we fail while laughing at the humor of it, of not having noticed before.

So, to clarify. Are you awareness? Do you feel that I or me is awareness?

Decisions, for me, work much like thoughts. They just happen and Later “I” take credit for it :>)

Good observation! Can you give me some examples from your own experience of how they work? Observe closely how decisions are made, and if there's really an 'I' making them, such as which pants to wear, turning left or right, anything really.

hug,
Wesley

[RoseyC]

Hi Wesley,

So, to clarify. Are you awareness? Do you feel that I or me is awareness?

Everything we see and know is awareness. It’s the silent stillness I sense behind it all. All the I’s and selfs, plants, animals, and objects manifest from awareness. We are truly all connected, all one.

Good observation! Can you give me some examples from your own experience of how they work? Observe closely how decisions are made, and if there's really an 'I' making them, such as which pants to wear, turning left or right, anything really.

When gardening the work just flows. I like this state because it feels like I am tapped into something magnificent. I just do. There is no logic and not much thinking at all. I walk out to the gardens without a tool. Stand there. Then I will make many trips to the shed for tools as the ideas come. There’s never a question of what goes where or what should I do next. The plants love this too. I want life to be like this all the time. There is no "i" involved.

When it’s my day to cook thoughts appear about what to cook. Later the how-to of it streams in. I might print a recipe but I always change it, although I don’t think about it. It seems spontaneous. No "i" can be found in this.

I started doing yoga around 1970. I did the same sequence every day for 5 years or so. It was what I needed at the time. It was never forced or strained and I never “decided” to do it that way. Sometimes I would go off and a completely different set of asanas would take over. Even now I continue to find this flow. The yoga just happens.

There are times when I sweat over a decision. Can’t pick the right thing. Even at these times I reach a point of “OK I give up” and the action just takes over. I don’t think I ever really had a choice. I need to let go more and more and let things flow.

I like to go to concerts. When I hear about a concert coming up (an artist I like), I just know I will go.

The above sound like non-decisions lol.

I just realized that I can stop beating myself up over past “bad decisions”. I really never had a choice. Just enjoy what comes.

Looking forward to your reply,
Rose

[WesleySPK]

Hi Rosey,

Thanks for your answers.

Everything we see and know is awareness. It’s the silent stillness I sense behind it all. All the I’s and selfs, plants, animals, and objects manifest from awareness. We are truly all connected, all one.

I'm afraid this didn't answer my question. Are 'you' awareness than? For the time being, forget other things and focus on self/me/I or whatever you like to call it.

I have an exercise for you to look at decisions. Find two objects, perhaps similar objects like a salt and pepper shaker and place them in front of you. Wait for the moment where your hand grabs one of them, and watch like a hawk for the exact moment the decision is made.
-Where is 'I' in the decision?
-Did you know which you would grab before the decision was made?

Repeat this as many times as you'd like and try to play close attention at your sense perceptions as well as how thoughts may play a role. Thoughts may suggest there is someone/something deciding, the question is is there really or is that just a thought?

Hug,
Wesley

[RoseyC]

Hi Wesley,

Thanks for the questions.

I'm afraid this didn't answer my question. Are 'you' awareness than? For the time being, forget other things and focus on self/me/I or whatever you like to call it.

There is no I/me/self so how can I/me/self be awareness? “I” am not awareness. If you are asking what is awareness, then I don’t know what, if anything, it is. It is not a separate thing. I don't know what it is. What am I missing here?

Find two objects, perhaps similar objects like a salt and pepper shaker and place them in front of you. Wait for the moment where your hand grabs one of them, and watch like a hawk for the exact moment the decision is made.
-Where is 'I' in the decision?
-Did you know which you would grab before the decision was made?

There is no I or self in the decision. If there is a decision at all, it is occurring while my hand is grabbing either the salt or pepper.

No, I did not really know before. I may have thought I would grab one or the other, but it did not always happen the way I “planned”.

So the idea that we make decisions is not true.

Thoughts may suggest there is someone/something deciding, the question is is there really or is that just a thought?

Just thoughts, really. I can’t find any decider.

I appreciate you taking the time to do this, thank you.
Rose

[WesleySPK]

Good evening Rosie,

Nice looking :)

There is no I/me/self so how can I/me/self be awareness? “I” am not awareness.

How are you coming to this? Can you provide an example of how it's clear there is no I/me/self?

So the idea that we make decisions is not true.

Okay, so there's no 'I' to be found making decisions. Does this mean there's no deciding/decisions?

Hug,
Wesley

[RoseyC]

Hi Wesley,

How are you coming to this? Can you provide an example of how it's clear there is no I/me/self?

That is a tough one. As we have talked about, thoughts just are, there is no thinker. Things just happen, there is no decider. What we call the “self” is just thoughts. Feelings are chemical reactions. There is no self feeling. Sensations and perceptions are responses of the nervous system. There is no self sensing or perceiving. It’s just physiological responses. Etc.

Okay, so there's no 'I' to be found making decisions. Does this mean there's no deciding/decisions?

I would have to agree with that. There is no deciding, so how can there be decisions? Things just happen. Only our thoughts interpret it as an “I” making choices.

Rose

[WesleySPK]

Hi Rosey,

Feelings are chemical reactions. There is no self feeling. Sensations and perceptions are responses of the nervous system. There is no self sensing or perceiving. It’s just physiological responses. Etc.

What is a feeling? How does 'chemical reactions' show up in the experience of a feeling?

-Notice a sensation, where is 'nervous system' in the experience of a sensation?
-Try a perception, like seeing. Where is 'nervous system' in seeing?

Is it actually possible to directly experience chemical reactions and the nervous system?

We'll leave decisions aside for now.

Hug,
Wesley

[RoseyC]

Hi Wesley,

What is a feeling? How does 'chemical reactions' show up in the experience of a feeling?

A feeling is a physiological response to a thought. Here’s an example: Yesterday a friend was in an accident. There were thoughts about the event and possible outcomes. The body went into fight or flight mode which included pounding heart and shaking hands. More thoughts: labeling the responses as sadness and fear.

In this case a chemical reaction is the the response of the body to thoughts that we label as feelings.

Notice a sensation, where is 'nervous system' in the experience of a sensation?

There was a sensation of heat and burning of the hand while cooking. There was an automatic response of jerking the hand away from the hot pot. The nervous system was involved in sensing the heat (nerves in hand) and moving the hand. The nerves in the hand registered the burn and the brain sent a signal to move the hand. While this was happening there were thoughts about pain.

Try a perception, like seeing. Where is 'nervous system' in seeing?

Cells in the eyes send chemical or electrical signals to the brain cells.

Is it actually possible to directly experience chemical reactions and the nervous system?

Not sure what you mean by “directly experience”. The body will respond to certain events such as a burn or news of an accident. There is a direct experience of pain and then there are thoughts and labeling which could be called indirect.


Thanks, this is becoming clearer.

Rose

[WesleySPK]

Hi Rosey,

Before answering the questions below, I'd like to clarify something you asked:

Not sure what you mean by “directly experience”

It's important for this inquiry to work that you are looking at your direct experience, and that is quite simply what you see/hear/smell/taste/touch. That's it.If it is not coming from one of these, it is thought-content. Is this true? Is it possible to experience something other than through the senses or as a thought-content?

This inquiry is in a simple way just looking at what is really here to be experienced here and now through the senses, and what is a thought. In many cases, a thought refers to a real thing which can be seen/heard/smelled/tasted/touched.

Let's try an exercise. Find a cup and place it in front of you, with some water or something you can drink. Look at whatever liquid is inside the cup, notice it's color if it has any, the shape of it in the cup, as many details as possible. Now close your eyes and think of the water or whatever liquid is inside it. Is it cold? Hot? What would it feel like touching your lips? How about drinking it, will it be quenching? Imagine yourself drinking it.

Now open your eyes and take a drink of that liquid. What's the difference between the real water and the water of your thoughts? There is the water of your thoughts and there is the real water (or whichever liquid it is).

'Nervous system' 'chemical reactions' 'brain cells' etc, there is the real object and there is the thought about it. We want to see whether these are being experienced through your senses or whether it actually is assumed from thought. To see what i'm talking about, here is another exercise i'd like you to try:

Take your hand and cover an object out of sight in the room. Now, how do you know it's there? That there is something behind your hand, is it coming from sensory information or is it from thought? Try and avoid any thought explanations, just look and see how this all works right now.

Hug,
Wesley