Mumon-kan

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Artst
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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby Artst » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:33 am

Dear Arcturus,
In order to answer this question, I checked various aspects of something that has been called "self".
It's wonderful that you did such a thorough job of checking before answering, Arcturus.

The questions are below. Feel free to take as much time as you need. You don't have to answer all of them at once. If they raise other questions or things to explore, that's fine.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
 
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.  What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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arcturus
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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby arcturus » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:13 pm

Dear Robyn


I have question.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Are these questions about before the dialogue with you started?


Regards,
Arcturus

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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby Artst » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:36 pm

Hi Arcturus,

No, these questions are about now, after you have seen through the illusion of I.

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby arcturus » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:34 pm

Dear Robyn

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

"Self" ,"me" ,"I" --other than thought (=label) does not exist. Those are just thought, happens and disappears. Those are not a real existence. Those does not have any shapes.
Therefore, "self", "me" and "I " as a separated entity does not exist. It was only that illusion that existed.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Separated self illusion is like this --

* Although it can not be seen in the eyes, it has an entity "self" that can be felt as a sense in the body, and there is "self" that lasts until I dies.

* I feel that "self" is necessary for survival.

* By adding knowledge and ability learned from experience to "self", I believe that "self" will be improved further and will be advantageous for survival.

* "Self" has the ability to decide and control something. It seems to me that better "self" can make me better decisions for survival.

* "Self" possesses something and believes that it can possess that something until it releases its ownership.


And, the separated self is functioning as follows --

* I feel that "self" is attacked when "my thought" or "my ability" were criticized from others. Since there is illusion that attack on "self" is directly connected to survival, I have offensive feeling or fear, to the critic.

* Offensive emotions or fear are directed to others who are trying to deprive "my "objects.If things that are directly connected to survival are deprived, such feelings will arise even if there is no "self". It is like an animal deprived of food. However, when "self" exists, those feelings will occur even if what is not directly connected to survival is deprived.

* I believe that I can improve "self", I interpret that "self" got better if thought understand something.

* I believe that other people also have "self". And sometimes I feel superiority compared to their own "self", sometimes I feel a sense of inferiority. If the inferiority complex is strong, I feel that "self" is worthless.

* I believe that "self" is a continuation from the past to the present. Therefore, I think that present "self" have responsibility of past actions. As a result, I keep on feelings of guilt and regret about past actions.


Then, when did the separated self start? --

* When I was a child, I got a sense of security when I felt attachment from my parents. This sense of security satisfies the demand of survival, I began to strongly demand this.

* Since I felt attachment from my parents, I have attachment to may body.

* Since my name was called by my parents when I felt attachment from my parents, "attachment to myself", "name-label", and "I-label" were linked. This is the beginning of the separated self.

*It seemed to me that the separated self stick a label of "My" on things that were given by parents. In fact, those labels happens on its own, and any entity who stick it does not exist.

* There is no problem with the attachment itself. When I see it deeply, the label of "I" disappears and the attachment itself is felt as sweet and warm. It is like love.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It is strange feeling how I was able to believe "self" that can neither be seen nor touched. "Self" is just thought, there is no substance, it does not last. Also, thoughts can not possess something, so "self" never owns anything.

Before starting this dialogue, I was beginning to notice that the separated self is an illusion. I realized that thoughts and feelings happens and disappears, I can not possess thoughts and feelings persistently.

I thought that only the observer is the only entity, "true self". But now, I think that it was an attempt to keep "self". I regarded "true self" as immortal self separated from the world, thought, emotion, body.

And sometimes, I thought that the observer hold thinking and feelings, and as a result would act foolishly.

However, during this dialogue, when I just looked the reality as it is without inference, it seems that the unobservable "true self" may not exist from the beginning. And then, I let go of the concept of "observer = true self",and I just looked.

Then, all things just happens and disappears. There is no continuing existence. Yet, the newly opened "looking" had taste of freedom, tranquility and eternity. It looks like the quality that the looking itself has.

Even now still, a feeling of attachment arises about things necessary for the survival of my body (such as food and money) , and labels of "my things" may occur there. However, in fact there is no owner (= separated self), so it is only a label.

And, I'm still getting nervous, feeling angry, irritated when I was criticized by others. However, there is no self as a subject who is nervous, angry or irritated. Emotions of anger and irritation and etc, just happens and disappears. It is like a landscape.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The last bit is to let go of the concept of "observer". Until then, the illusion of "separated self" has been prolonged by being replaced with the concept of "true self = observer", but when I let go of the concept of "observer" ,there is "just looking".

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

There is no entity that decides the action. Thoughts seem to be choosing actions, in fact, the actions are just happening, without choosing. When thought and action seem to be same, it seems to me that thought decides the action. However it is just illusion.

There is no entity capable of controlling thought, thinking can not control thinking. Therefore, free will and intention seem to not exist apparently.

There is no free will, so someone who can take responsibility does not exist. Everything is in the letting go. Sometimes, It may seem that it looks like I have not let go. However, in fact, the state that seems not to let go of is going on in the letting go.


Robyn, I appreciate you.
These questions gave me the pleasure of "looking".


Regards,
Arcturus

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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby arcturus » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:06 am

I will add an answer for the last question.

Now I am in freedom from free will. Sometimes I think "I have a free will", but that also happens and disappears freely.

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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby Artst » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:16 am

Dear Arcturus,

You have done a wonderful job of answering the questions fully and, in my estimation, beautifully.

I'm going to present your answers to another guide just to make sure I haven't missed anything that needs t'o be addressed. I'll either come back with more questions or you will be invited to a couple of "after seeing" groups.

It has been a true pleasure guiding you, Arcturus.

Sending lots of love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby Artst » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:20 am

p.s. I think you would make an excellent guide, if you're interested. Let me know your thoughts on this. You could begin to learn right away or whenever you feel ready.

Love,
Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby arcturus » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:28 am

Dear Robyn

I'll either come back with more questions or you will be invited to a couple of "after seeing" groups.

I became a "blue member".
Robyn, I appreciate your wonderful guidance.

I think you would make an excellent guide, if you're interested. Let me know your thoughts on this.

I would like to be a guide.
I think it is difficult to guide someone using English, but I am interested in learning how to guide.
I wish I could help the seeker by my mother tongue.
I am ready to learn.


Regards,
Arcturus

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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby Artst » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:53 am

Dear Arcturus,

I'm very glad you would like to be a guide.

Unfortunately, we are only set up for guiding (and mentoring guides) in a few languages.

Would you consider learning to guide in English? Your English is excellent.

Love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby arcturus » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:03 am

Dear Robyn

Would you consider learning to guide in English? Your English is excellent.
I am glad your proposal.

I can learn to guide in English.
Google translation will help me.


Regards,
Arcturus

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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby Artst » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:14 am

Dear Arcturus,

That is wonderful! We are having so many new people come to Liberation Unleashed, we really need more guides.
I think you'll be great at it.

I'll find out the next step and get back to you.

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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Artst
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Re: Mumon-kan

Postby Artst » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:59 pm

Dear Arcturus,

It was a true pleasure guiding you.

I will send you a private message in the next days or two.

Sending much love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life


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