Help me please.

[WesleySPK]

Hi Mona,

BTW did I say I love you to bits. Thank You Wesley. Thanks for your patience. Thank you Liberation Unleashed.

My pleasure :).

Lovely essay indeed, glad you feel you've lost the weight of 'me' ;). Do enjoy this time, this sounds like a honeymoon sort of period after a clear seeing. It's a good sign that something has shifted experientially rather than it only being an intellectual realization. I recommend just relaxing and enjoying life however it comes, and if things come down and begin to feel heavy again, or if 'Mona' or 'me' steps back into the picture, don't fret. It's normal.

For some, this is a sudden thing and the illusion totally drops, but for many others I think it's more like a huge blow to the foundation of a building, the structure of "me", and it takes time for it to come down. Developing the habit of looking may help this.

I also like to give people I guide a heads up to don't expect suffering to end after the illusion of a separate self has been see through. Seeing there is no separate self does not necessarily mean you accept life as it happens. Trust your intuition and do what you feel is right for you. After finishing LU, you'll have access to a great community of people where you will have options to continue inquiring should you want to, or become a guide yourself, and much more.

I have been generally looking at the intricacy of things happening. In time and in space.

Time and space usually means a linear progression of moments with the Now being squished between the past and future, so...

-How is the past and future experienced?
-How are time and space experienced?
-How fast is the Now moving if it's indeed a linear progression?
-Where does it start, and where does it end?

Hug,
Wesley

[WesleySPK]

Hi Mona,

Still there?

[Mona]

Hi Wesley,

Many apologies for such a delayed reply. It sounds horrible how I never replied since you helped me see clearly. This happened because I had very little privacy over the last week. Terribly sorry to have you made to wait.

I recommend just relaxing and enjoying life however it comes, and if things come down and begin to feel heavy again, or if 'Mona' or 'me' steps back into the picture, don't fret.

Things have been happening just as they always did. These events include, brushing the teeth, being stuck in traffic jams and feeling frustrated, being lazy, reading a magazine, being a jerk, watching telly, going to work, buying a sandwich, feeling jealous, being greedy and overeating, giving to a beggar, paying for parking, walking, picking objects, arguments, answering phone calls, breathing, shopping, making others happy, losing car keys. You get the picture.

But now there is always and afterthought. "Hmm, this just happened. ." So yes Mona is back, in fact she never left. But she isn't real. She never was. So she never came, stayed or left. None. And if she were, she still is the same shit person she always was. Everything is the same. Only now there is a clear understanding that there is no control/Mona over stuff.

Being a jerk happens, deciding against being a jerk too happens at times, then not being a jerk happens, also sometimes being a jerk happens anyway, occasionally being nice happens instead. None of these situations happened because of Mona. They just happened.

What a relief. What a goodbye to a fictitious self.

Developing the habit of looking may help this.

Maybe, what I said above is a form of looking. Please correct me if I am wrong. But then I am not doing the looking. Like I said, it is an afterthought that pops out of nowhere. "Hmm, that just happened." So if this is what you mean by looking it is certainly taking place. But I am not controlling it. It just comes up as afterthoughts. Just like regular thoughts, this too comes up. Sometimes it leads to more thoughts of trying to fix what happened 5 mins ago, for example : "I could have handled this better.." But it is all automated, in its entirety.

I also like to give people I guide a heads up to don't expect suffering to end after the illusion of a separate self has been see through. Seeing there is no separate self does not necessarily mean you accept life as it happens.

Suffering in terms of relationships or profession or other such stuff is of no value anymore now that I categorise it all as weightless, formless thoughts. So far so good. I cannot promise if this is how it will remain forever. But I have been quite neutral/indifferent in the past few days since I last spoke to you. Not dispassionate, but neutral. Maybe peaceful is the best word. Yes life sucked big time in certain situations around me, but I was peaceful. Sorted. Nothing shook me.

Suffering in terms of physical stuff. Yes, I have headaches. I am finding it hard to deal with that. I see it happen. I see there is no control, just like there is none on heartbeats, or thoughts. But pain is not fun. And this has nothing to do with Mona. This is no wordplay. This is physical suffering. It is a part of being, just like I feel my feet on the floor, fingertips on the keyboard, I feel pain. Mona or no Mona.

You will have options to continue inquiring should you want to, or become a guide yourself, and much more.

I have only taken a baby step in the right direction. Still a noob in all this, but do let me know if you feel I could be of any help when the guides are all booked and need a hand.

How is the past and future experienced?

Via Thoughts. Full stop.

How are time and space experienced?

Via Thoughts.

Time

So how small is NOW? One second, half a second, a millionth of a second. Even smaller? Smallest unit of time? What is the smallest unit of time? No time at all? So is it Timeless?

Space

Where am I right now? On this planet? In the UK? In my town? In my house? In my body? In my head? In the smallest portion of my head? In the tiniest space possible? How tiny is a tiny space? No space?

So let's say the foot is ‘down there’. Presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths, locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

Remember this?

How fast is the Now moving if it's indeed a linear progression?

It is not moving at all. There is no such thing as movement. Its progression is a belief. If it were moving it would need to cover the distance between A and B. But before getting to B it will have to shift from A to another position in-between. But wouldn't that be a distance too? How will it traverse that distance? What is the length of infinite distances in-between?
A_?_?_?_?_?_?_?_B? How did it get to the first question mark? It didn't. It can not. Because, it will have infinite distances in-between A_?. The end.

And the same applies to physical distances. There is no such thing as movement. Things move in our 'opinions'. In fact things ARE opinions. So much for Time and Space. They are just Thoughts. Things we suppose.

Also all I just said is also just a set of beliefs. This is how 'I' see it. This too is a concept. An opinion.

Where does it start, and where does it end?

This has no start, no beginning, no end. A very loaded word is the only thing that comes to mind. And that word is INFINITY.

Thank you Wesley for everything. I will not delay any more replies.

Hugs
Mona

[WesleySPK]

Hi Mona,

Many apologies for such a delayed reply. It sounds horrible how I never replied since you helped me see clearly. This happened because I had very little privacy over the last week. Terribly sorry to have you made to wait.

That's okay, things come up I understand ;).

I love your description of the events throughout the day. It can be a bit funny for some to see how normal life is still because daily life still goes on, nothing appears or disappears, just some thoughts aren't believed the same as before.

Maybe, what I said above is a form of looking. Please correct me if I am wrong. But then I am not doing the looking. Like I said, it is an afterthought that pops out of nowhere. "Hmm, that just happened."

I think it's best to keep 'looking' simple. Look at your foot, what do you see? Look at the ceiling or the sky, what do you see? Look at 'me', what do you see? Notice what is seen or experienced through the senses, and what is made of thought. I found it useful and pleasant to physically look around at my surroundings, at the room or whatever was there.

'Suffering' can be looked at more later, looking at what is real and what is made of thought goes very far. For now, I suggest letting things settle and allow things to flow just as you seem to be doing. Yes, being a jerk may happen and being nice may also happen.

I'm sorry to hear about the headaches :(. Yes physical pain is not fun to experience. If you feel called to guide, you'll have the means to do so and can find out more about that later.

Also all I just said is also just a set of beliefs. This is how 'I' see it. This too is a concept. An opinion.

:D. Look at 'time', what do you see? Look at space/future/past, what do you see? If you can't see/hear/touch/taste them, than what are they? Where did they come from? How do you know they exist? Looking and questioning goes a long way, indeed that's inquiry.

Thank you Wesley for everything. I will not delay any more replies.

My pleasure :)

Hug,
Wesley

[Mona]

HI Wesley, thanks for the reply.

daily life still goes on, nothing appears or disappears, just some thoughts aren't believed the same as before.

Yes that is what I was trying to say. You said it in a more compact and precise way. Exactly how I felt.

I found it useful and pleasant to physically look around at my surroundings, at the room or whatever was there

Yes this is what is going on. Hands and feet and hair and sounds and sensations. Tasting stuff, touching etc. Labels are dropping. "What are those things?" is a question that pops up. I was washing my face this morning when I filled my hands with water and it overflew. Just raw sensation. Very real. Wordless, immediate awareness without a name. Temperature of stuff is no longer filtered as hot, cold, warm. More like focused, unadulterated experience of sensation. Right there, in that moment. Fan blowing air at my face is no longer FAN-blowing-AIR. It is a felt event. It is nameless, it cannot be described. It can only be sensed. If I come close to explaining what it is like using language, then I would say all this feels like 'energy buzzing' about. Distracting thoughts are no longer taking the centerstage. I am laser focused at times. Happening the most during chewing food I noticed. But they are all same in nature. Just the 'energy buzzing' at different levels. I boiled it down that all touch essentially feels the same. It is just different 'energy buzzing' levels. So yes, I am doing this exercise you suggested in many of your replies. It is very humbling. It is also very liberating. It gives some freedom from the complexities of life. Simple focus on raw sensations.

Look at 'time', what do you see? Look at space/future/past, what do you see? If you can't see/hear/touch/taste them, than what are they? Where did they come from? How do you know they exist?

All thoughts, and if I lost the ability to THINK then they would not exist.

Where did they come from?

I was once meditating and my mind ran wild. I thought of the broken hammock in my garden. I could see its image. Then I thought of the red rope in my garage that I will use to tie the hammock to the tree. I saw the images of the tree, the red rope my garage and the drawer in which the rope was kept. This chain of thoughts ended with the thought "I will tend to the hammock tomorrow, I must focus right now on meditation."

I continued to meditate and once again my mind got filled with thoughts. I was now thinking of my mother and how she had not been keeping well at that time. Chain of thoughts ended with "I will worry about that later, I must focus right now on meditation."

A moment later I thought ...

"How did she get here? In my meditation?? How did she get here?"
And then about 10 mins. later a bit deeper into my meditation, I had forgotten about the recent thoughts about my mother, a whispered thought filled the space. "Just like the rope, the hammock, the garage got here."

So to answer your question. Where did they come from?
Just like the rope, the hammock, the garage, my mother - the Time and the Space got here. Popped up as Thoughts. Reinforced by social conditioning. Borrowed beliefs. Concepts. Nothing more, nothing less than mere Thoughts.

How do you know they exist?

How do I know the wall behind me exists? Right now, I cannot see it. I cannot touch, feel it. It only exists in my memory. And memory is nothing but Thoughts. And Thoughts are NO THINGS.

I can question the existence of the wall even if I could see, touch or feel it. Because, 'I' am the one giving it existence in that moment too. I am the one feeling its solidity, I am the one feeling its temperature, its smoothness, its hardness, its colour. If somehow my Mind lost the ability to make sense of it all, I would not be able to tell if it is a wall or a pineapple pie. Mind is at the business end of ALL experience. Subtle or gross. I worked this out some time ago after a lot of contemplation on raw experience of being. But, I could be wrong. Right now, I want to drop all my old beliefs, including the ones I hold dear. All of them, in total. Like I said in the beginning. Whack me on my head if I start babbling. lol

Lots of Love
Mona

[WesleySPK]

Hi Mona,

Sorry for my late response, it looks like the notifications aren't working on my email. Anyhow.

Really great to read your response! I can imagine clearly what you're describing and talking about, and relate to it.

So to answer your question. Where did they come from?
Just like the rope, the hammock, the garage, my mother - the Time and the Space got here. Popped up as Thoughts. Reinforced by social conditioning. Borrowed beliefs. Concepts. Nothing more, nothing less than mere Thoughts.

Yep, thoughts! Which are fine of course, we are not thought-police at LU ;), just want to point to the fact that a thought is a thought, not a me/I.

Mind is at the business end of ALL experience. Subtle or gross. I worked this out some time ago after a lot of contemplation on raw experience of being. But, I could be wrong. Right now, I want to drop all my old beliefs, including the ones I hold dear. All of them, in total. Like I said in the beginning. Whack me on my head if I start babbling. lol

Is this something you can do? Can you drop beliefs?

Hug,
Wesley

[Mona]

Hi Wesley, thx for the reply.

Sorry for my late response, it looks like the notifications aren't working on my email.

Pls don't be sorry. I said 'Help me please' in a desperate moment and you came to the rescue.

--- we are not thought-police at LU ;), just want to point to the fact that a thought is a thought, not a me/I.

True. I cannot be Thought-Free even for a millisecond. But I can be Free-From-Thought. That much I can try I guess. Yes?

Is this something you can do? Can you drop beliefs?

Again the answer is No. But I can try to drop believing in beliefs. Am I on the right track here?

Love
Mona

[WesleySPK]

Hi Mona,

Pls don't be sorry. I said 'Help me please' in a desperate moment and you came to the rescue.

:) I know the place.

True. I cannot be Thought-Free even for a millisecond. But I can be Free-From-Thought. That much I can try I guess. Yes?

Can you give me an example of what being free-from-thought would look like?

gain the answer is No. But I can try to drop believing in beliefs. Am I on the right track here?

I can't say for sure, but how does a belief drop? How exactly did you stop believing in 'me', if you did? How did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Give 'trying' the benefit of the doubt. Right now, if you are able to try and drop a belief than try and drop a belief. What happens?

Hug,
Wesley

[Mona]

Hi Wesley, thanks for the reply,

Can you give me an example of what being free-from-thought would look like?

In every situation. But, for example - Like say washing the dishes is washing the dishes not arguing with the boss in your head. Washing dishes is 'swish swish' not 'How can he talk to me like that. Next time I will show him'.

Or being stuck in a jam is just being stuck in a jam. All the mental blah blah about past or future won't help. It is just feet on the pedals, feet off the pedals, hands on the wheel, some ambient sounds.

Or having tea but being insane in your head about a lot of rubbish like boyfriend should pay you more attention or how you do more for people than they ever do for you. I mean how bad having tea is. It is after all just sip, sip, sip. Why not keep it that simple!!!

If a sprinter thought of what he will wear in the winning ceremony then s/he'd lose the race. Isn't it? Or say if a scorpion thought of his annoying aunt he'd not be able to deliver that perfect killing sting. ha ha ha

Thoughts are seamless. They never stop. But at least I can be aware of them being mere Thoughts and not bother with their content. This is where it goes pear shaped.

... how does a belief drop?

The belief itself doesn't drop. It just gets seen through. Or sometimes gets replaced by new beliefs. Then those new beliefs get seen through. And so on. I am actually getting a bit confused while writing this reply. Because, a belief can only be completely dropped till a Fact takes its place. But there is no knowing what is a Fact and what is a Belief.

What is a Fact after all? The only actual fact in all this is that I exist, here and now. Not as Mona, not as a girl, not as a daughter, not as a person but I definitely exist. Delete all Ego/Mind/Body Self, I still exist. Remove everything, and I mean everything, I still exist. Rest is all disputable. Help me here please.

How exactly did you stop believing in 'me', if you did?

Oh 'me' is Thought based. Simplify everything and we are left with just points where the body is felt. Bare minimum. Past/Future removed, all ego related stuff removed and there is just here and now. Here and now is just 3-4 points were the body is felt and Thoughts. Both subtle elements. Both have no explanation. So there goes the 'me'.

How did you stop believing in Santa Claus?

Ha ha. Yes. I used to hear you people say 'Look'. And I actually did not know what it meant. Honestly, I started looking. I mean LOOKING. Like stare at a spoon for hours. lol lol lol or keep gazing at a lamp without blinking. Please don't laugh. That is how silly I can be.

I just kept looking. Then I read somewhere "Look for yourself. Where are you?" I was like I am here and I went to the bathroom mirror. You know where this is going. aaahahahaaa

Then I read, "Look for the one that you call me." I was sooo confused, although I knew you guys are trying to say something very important. But I did not know what you meant. And what I was doing wrong.

Then one day I caught myself saying "My entire body is aching today." In that moment I knew what you mean by "Look for the one that you call me." I thought I have to look for the one that says Me, Mine, I and the one that seems to own the Body and Mind. Hmmm.

I did not know how to do that. Then I read "Were you needed to go to the toilet and use it and wash those hands?"
At first I did not get this. But a few moments later I knew what to do. I went to the kitchen to make tea. I made my tea with utmost attention to what was happening.

It was all Sensory Input - Action - Thought in all permutation and combinations. The Thoughts were popping up without a Thinker, the Actions were all automated. EVERYTHING was automated. Thoughts were results of Thoughts, Actions were result of Thoughts. Sensory Inputs were result of Actions. Thoughts were results of Actions. Actions were results of Actions, you get the picture. I was NOT NEEDED. There was no I. NEVER.

I picked a cup - Result of seeing the cup and Thought about wanting tea. Sensation in mouth when one needs hot tea.
I picked the kettle - Meanwhile the other hand had reached for a teaspoon. hahahaa
I had filled the kettle with water while I was thinking "Hmm... that just happened on its own." The kettle was already switched on before I could wonder how I had put the teabag in the cup on autopilot.
I looked at the kitchen floor (sensory input) and while the kettle boiled I found myself reaching for the mop.

By now I was extremely focused. Noticing hand movements, how the mop passed from hand to hand and made its way back. The kettle had boiled and the water got poured into the cup the teabag was dipped and removed while the other hand threw it in the bin and the first hand had already opened the fridge door. Wow.

I now thought, "Hmm.. this is all happening on auto pilot. I will prove everything wrong and NOT shut the fridge door".

"I will prove everything wrong and NOT shut the fridge door"

"That was a Thought you fool. It just popped up. As a result of a prior Thought." Aaahahahaaa "Now go climb a tree".

By now I was crying. Crying like there is no tomorrow. With my nose running and all. I eventually cried my heart out.

if you are able to try and drop a belief than try and drop a belief. What happens?

You are right. I have been fooling myself. Drop something that doesn't exist? I can spend a million years trying that and I won't get anywhere. Also. How can an 'I' that doesn't exist drop anything.

Thanks a bunch Wesley.
Lots of love
Mona

[WesleySPK]

Hi Mona,

Thoughts are seamless. They never stop. But at least I can be aware of them being mere Thoughts and not bother with their content. This is where it goes pear shaped.

Okay I understand better now, thanks for giving these examples. Very vivid and easy to follow.

What is a Fact after all? The only actual fact in all this is that I exist, here and now. Not as Mona, not as a girl, not as a daughter, not as a person but I definitely exist. Delete all Ego/Mind/Body Self, I still exist. Remove everything, and I mean everything, I still exist. Rest is all disputable. Help me here please.

Hmmm, remove everything whatsoever and "I" still exists? If it's not as Mona, not as a girl, not as a daughter or a person, than as what exactly? What is this 'something' that exists? Other than the various processes that go on - breathing, thoughts, emotions, the personality, the leg, the sounds, the sensation in the back. Where is 'I' in any of this?

Ha ha. Yes. I used to hear you people say 'Look'. And I actually did not know what it meant. Honestly, I started looking. I mean LOOKING. Like stare at a spoon for hours. lol lol lol or keep gazing at a lamp without blinking. Please don't laugh. That is how silly I can be.

It's okay I too have had my fair share of time spent looking at objects for long periods of time ;).

I did not know how to do that. Then I read "Were you needed to go to the toilet and use it and wash those hands?"

Ahh perfect, I love this! Haven't heard it before. So, Mona, is 'I' needed for existence to continue? Is 'I exist' necessary for all the sounds, colors, thoughts, conversations, sensations, to go on?

I picked a cup - Result of seeing the cup and Thought about wanting tea. Sensation in mouth when one needs hot tea.
I picked the kettle - Meanwhile the other hand had reached for a teaspoon. hahahaa
I had filled the kettle with water while I was thinking "Hmm... that just happened on its own." The kettle was already switched on before I could wonder how I had put the teabag in the cup on autopilot.
I looked at the kitchen floor (sensory input) and while the kettle boiled I found myself reaching for the mop.

Yep!! For me, waking up and taking a shower is infinitely a different experience (and yet the same) as before LU. I would be thinking "okay, this is the beginning of the day and I have to concentrate, be mindful, not get lost in my thoughts, oh no I'm getting lost in my thoughts." When really the whole process of taking a shower, making breakfast, or anything is happening on it's own without effort.

By now I was crying. Crying like there is no tomorrow. With my nose running and all. I eventually cried my heart out.

Mmm this is beautiful.

You are right. I have been fooling myself. Drop something that doesn't exist? I can spend a million years trying that and I won't get anywhere. Also. How can an 'I' that doesn't exist drop anything.

:) bingo.

Mona, I think we are just tying up some loose ends here. If you can, I'd like you to focus on that "I" that is the remaining fact of existence.

Hug,
Wesley

[Mona]

HI Wesley, thanks for the reply.

What is this 'something' that exists?

I have no clear cut answer for that. Honestly, I don't know. Maybe, as awareness. Something that is self aware. No particular doer but there is awareness. Yes, there is just awareness. That is it.

Where is 'I' in any of this?

There is no 'I' as such to put it more precisely. But there is existence. As awareness perhaps. There is no denying there is awareness. Nothing is outside awareness that could be called 'A' is aware of stuff. But there is Awareness. So Awareness is all there is. No entity that is aware. So all there is, is Awareness. This is really weird but that is how I see it now. It defies all Subject/Object, Cause/Effect theories yet it is the only explanation.

So, Mona, is 'I' needed for existence to continue?

Life lives itself WITHOUT a person. A person is just a cluster of ideas. Other people are clusters of ideas too. This realisation left me on my kitchen floor in foetal position saying "OMG this is it, OMG this is it, OMG this is it..." for about 15 mins.

How can a non-existent 'I' be needed to do anything?

"okay, this is the beginning of the day and I have to concentrate, be mindful, not get lost in my thoughts, oh no I'm getting lost in my thoughts." When really the whole process of taking a shower, making breakfast, or anything is happening on it's own without effort.

You helped me see that ALL OF IT IS AUTOMATED. Including the "I should be mindful" bit. Aaahahahaa What a game.

Mona, I think we are just tying up some loose ends here. If you can, I'd like you to focus on that "I" that is the remaining fact of existence.

Ohh. You think I want to cling to some 'Subject' like entity? Hmm. Nah. I don't know. I feel existence is there. But, someone existing isn't. There is just existence. Just like, typing happens but no person does the typing, existences happens but no person does the existing.
What do you think?

Hugs
Mona

[WesleySPK]

Hi Mona,

There is no denying there is awareness.

When you say 'there IS awareness' does this make it an object, is it a thing? Or is it more like a happening, a verb, a process? If it's an object, where is it? What are it's characteristics?

Ohh. You think I want to cling to some 'Subject' like entity? Hmm. Nah. I don't know. I feel existence is there. But, someone existing isn't. There is just existence. Just like, typing happens but no person does the typing, existences happens but no person does the existing.
What do you think?

Right existence is happening, you need only to notice a sensation or any other sense perception to verify that it's happening. But that there is any 'subject' or 'awareness' existing as a thing, this is what I want to look at.

Does it seem like there is awareness behind the eyes? If so, may I suggest you finding the proof for there actually being something there - other than a sensation + a thought saying awareness is there?

Again it all comes down to what is coming directly from raw sense information and what is assumed from thoughts.

Hug,
Wesley

[Mona]

Hi Wesley, thanks for the reply,

When you say 'there IS awareness' does this make it an object, is it a thing?

It's not an object. 'Phenomenon' is the word that does more justice.

Or is it more like a happening, a verb, a process?

Yes it is a happening, a verb, a process. Just like heartbeat is not an object it is an event.

If it's an object, where is it? What are it's characteristics?

It is not an object. Just like thoughts certainly happen but they are no objects. Awareness happens. The characteristics are none. Stuff happening is the only Characteristic. Awareness happens just as stuff happens. Maybe there is no awareness, there is just stuff happening. But since stuff happening is seen and felt in real time... ohh my head hurts. Experience is happening. But the word Experience suggests duality. It is a two way process. But there is no two, and I know that. WTF. Help!!!!

To give you an idea where I am at ... I thought Awareness is not an Entity, it is just a process. But now I wonder if even that process exists. What I call Awareness is just 'Experiencing life unfolding'. But then there will be two - Life unfolding and Awareness of Life unfolding. That doesn't sound right. It doesn't sum things up well. It is either Life unfolding or Awareness of Life unfolding. It cannot be both.

Does it seem like there is awareness behind the eyes?

Assuming there is a 'being' in this body behind the eyes, witnessing stuff happen is a very water tight illusion. But, I know that it is just an illusion. Very clever illusion but it is just a trick. Let us say, 'feeling' like being a person 'happens'. But a 'person' never happens. So no, there is nothing behind the eyes. Experience is happening, experience of feeling like a person behind the eyes is happening, experience of replacing the word 'person' with some cool spiritual word is happening. After all, no matter what we call it, a fictitious self is a fictitious self. Rest is all just Life living itself. Even if it includes a Satori. It would be Satori just happened. Nothing more nothing less. Just like washing dishes just happened.

If so, may I suggest you finding the proof for there actually being something there - other than a sensation + a thought saying awareness is there?

No, thoughts are not needed to be aware. Awareness doesn't depend upon thoughts. It is present already. That is what I mean when I say Awareness is undeniable.

But Awareness/Experience without any one being Aware or an Experience is happening. I don't THINK it is happening, but it is happening. There is awareness of Raw Sense Information. Raw Sense Information is not empty of Awareness. There is nobody Aware. But Awareness is certainly happening.

Love
Mona

[WesleySPK]

Hi Mona,

Experience is happening. But the word Experience suggests duality. It is a two way process. But there is no two, and I know that. WTF. Help!!!!

:D, words tend to do this. If there is duality than there should be a division point. Where is it? Where does experience happen exactly, and what is it separate from?

But then there will be two - Life unfolding and Awareness of Life unfolding

Two what exactly? Concepts? Things? If there are these two things, than where is the division point between 'life unfolding' and 'awareness of life unfolding'?

It is either Life unfolding

Unfolding? From where does it unfold?

Rest is all just Life living itself.

It cannot be both.

What is 'it' you refer to? Can 'life' be found anywhere? Where is 'life'? And can you explain to me exactly how it 'unfolds' or 'lives itself'?

experience of feeling like a person behind the eyes is happening

Break this down, there is not a direct experience of "feeling like a person". This has to be a sensation + a thought "feeling like a person". Zoom in as close as you can to where exactly that sensation is, and does that sensation know anything about 'being a person'?

'Life' - what is the difference between this and 'Germany'? Can you locate 'germany' in its totality? If we drove to Germany, and crossed 1 foot over the boarder and I pointed to a tree and said "germany?" is it true? So can you locate 'life'? If I point to a shoe, is that 'life'? How about a bird, is it 'life'?

Hug,
Wesley

[Mona]

Hi Wesley, thanks for the reply,

If there is duality than there should be a division point. Where is it? Where does experience happen exactly, and what is it separate from?

There is no division point. It is just the word Experience that doesn't do justice to the actual event. The experience is there without an experiencer. The word Experience is not appropriate. But then there is no word to describe a phenomenon of this nature where there is no Cause to an Effect. English isn't my first language, so maybe there would be some specific word/phrase to fit this. My English isn't very good.

Two what exactly? Concepts? Things? If there are these two things, than where is the division point between 'life unfolding' and 'awareness of life unfolding'?

Again it is just the semantics. Although, you know and I know that it is all just concepts. Linguistics for ease of communication. Language is limiting. I always say "Words are the crypts of Reality." Words are dead. They have nothing to do with Reality as it is. Yet words happen. They are not separate from all the rest. Just like Thoughts are a part of this big bundle of 'Happenings'. Within Thought, thoughts of separation happen. But the Actual Separation never happens. It never did, it never will. It includes Thought. It is all inclusive. As I am typing this, I am realising ALL distinctions manifest as Thought.

Unfolding? From where does it unfold?

No idea. Maybe just like Time unfolded, The Hammock and the Rope unfolded, My Mother unfolded, The space unfolded, The Boss unfolded, it appears the rest unfolds the same way - In the Thought. That is the explanation of unfolding (popping up).

But I have no answer to the 'Where' bit of your question. It just pops up, as thoughts. It is there when it is there, it is gone when it is gone. Where it comes from or where it goes to, I have no clue.

When a thought is around, it is HERE and NOW. No idea about where it travels from or departs to. I hope I did not sidetrack on this reply.

What is 'it' you refer to? Where is 'life'? And can you explain to me exactly how it 'unfolds' or 'lives itself'?

All that HAPPENS. Whatever that goes on. The sum total.

Can 'life' be found anywhere?

If by 'life' you mean 'All-That-Happens' then yes it can be found. Right here, Right now. Typing is happening. And so is the screen, so is the ambiance of this room. So is anticipation of future, or past or other objects outside of field of vision. All this is happening right now. As thought. As sensory input.

OMG OMG OMG OMG hang on a min. I am going to be dramatic again. I just said it is all happening as Thought. Tell me I am wrong.

I think I will go take a break and reply to the rest of your message later. Be back soon.