Entering into oneness

[Wildlichen]

Hi Sarah,

That's a helpful suggestion, thanks. I've been finding it difficult to turn the spotlight off in recent months and it's been a bit exhausting. Maybe being given permission to will help me let go and relax!

Ok, so part 2 of the exercise. Here are some categories of thoughts that I found:

Discussion thoughts
Commentary thoughts (comments on what is currently happening)
Curious musing thoughts (what is this? What does this mean? )
Thoughts about the process of thinking
Memories
Future plans
Evaluating thoughts (this is good/bad, forming opinions )
There are also emotional responses that come without words attached, such as smiling and feeling a wave of warmth in response to hearing my neighbour's kids playing. Not sure if that counts as a thought.

As for what triggers the thoughts, today most of them seemed to be in response to either current circumstances or upcoming events.

Thanks!
Moss

[poshgeek]

As for what triggers the thoughts, today most of them seemed to be in response to either current circumstances or upcoming events.

Hmmmm, how do future events generate thoughts now?

Exercise
In your next exercise I‘d like you to focus on your commentary type of thoughts. Ignore other thoughts, focus on those that comment on what is currently happening.
First sit and observe what is for a little while. Direct experience. Then start including those commentary thoughts into your observation. How are they connected to direct experience? What are your findings?

Looking forward!

Love, Sarah

[Wildlichen]

Hi Sarah,

how do future events generate thoughts now?

Interesting question. It seems from my perspective as though thoughts about future events pop into or intrude into my awareness of the present. As if some part of me decides that they have priority over present direct experience and urgently demand my attention.

As for the exercise, here are some of the commentary thoughts I noticed:

Evaluating how well or poorly I'm doing at staying with the direct experience
Labeling of emotions eg I'm angry, I'm sad
This is stupid, I don't want to do this
Thoughts about whether I'm following the instructions correctly
Opinions about things I'm hearing or seeing

Many or most of these thoughts appear to come in response to an emotion or feeling in my body - that's the main connection I observed between the direct experience and the commentary thoughts.

Thanks!
Moss

[poshgeek]

Dear Moss, sorry I kept you waiting.

Labeling of emotions eg I'm angry, I'm sad

Exercise
Now please inspect this labeling process. Does it only include emotions or all of direct experience like, hearing, seeing? Even other thought? Is there direct experience without labeling? How are the label and the emotion connected? Are they the same thing? Are they both real? Does the emotion change, if you label it? I'd like you to observe this about 5 times during a day for a few minutes each, and then let me know what you find.

As if some part of me decides that they have priority over present direct experience and urgently demand my attention.

Well that's interesting! Can you describe this part of you to me? What is it? Where is it? How does it look? How does it feel? Does it have other influence than the thinking thing?

Looking forward!

Love, Sarah

[Wildlichen]

Hi Sarah, no worries!

I've found it challenging to focus today, so I haven't done it 5 times.
However, this is what I've been able to observe about the labeling process so far.

Does it only include emotions or all of direct experience like, hearing, seeing? Even other thought?

The labeling happens to it all: what I directly perceive as well as thoughts.

Is there direct experience without labeling?

Yes, there are times of inner silence where there isn't any labeling of the experience. But the labeling seems to really want to happen, and it often pulls me out of the direct experience. So the times without labeling are relatively short, and it takes a lot of effort to stay with the direct experience.

How are the label and the emotion connected? Are they the same thing? Are they both real?

The emotion (or other direct experience ) comes first, and the labeling seems to come a moment later, as a response to it, and often as a way to distance myself from it, or to control the experience by keeping it at arms length. They definitely feel like different things to me.
As for real, I don't know how to define real! The labeling feels like an overlay on the experience, so I guess less real than the original experience itself, although the experience of thinking the labeling thoughts is real in its own way.

Does the emotion change, if you label it?

Hmm, I don't think so. It's hard to say, because I've spent a lot of time relating to my emotions as physical sensations, learning how to help them flow and change,so that often happens automatically at this point. It doesn't seem as if labeling itself helps it change, especially compared to feeling the physical shape of it within my body and allowing it to flow. But it's hard to say for sure.

As for the part of me that demands I think about the future, it feels like a voice in my head that's frequently insisting that there are things to do, things to worry about, that it's not safe to simply be in the pesent. It feels quite harsh and tense, and it seems to affect a lot of physiological responses, not just thinking. It often causes anxiety and adrenal responses such as elevated heartrate, higher muscle tension. It feels like hypervigilence, and the implication of what it tells me is that I'm not safe and have to take action or plan in order to stay safe.

Thanks for all your help!
Moss

[poshgeek]

Exactly! Our mind is also a crazy labelling machine, sticking label tags on all our direct experiences all day long! :D

although the experience of thinking the labeling thoughts is real in its own way.

Definition
Let’s look at thoughts as containers with content. I see a table in front of me. So sooner or later the thought „table, verrry dirty, needs cleaning“ shows up. Now the thought itself is direct experience. But the thought content is of course a label applied after the direct experience of seeing. Does that make sense?


Definition
Let’s sort all things into three categories: real things (objects like table. can be touched), virtual things (like university. language constructs. important for communication. usually consisting of real objects (like teachers, tables)) and imaginary things (like batman, unicorn).
So "real" means anything, that I can experience through DE (direct experience). For the purpose of this inquiry, do you agree?

it feels like a voice in my head that's frequently insisting that there are things to do. … It often causes anxiety and adrenal responses such as elevated heartrate, higher muscle tension. … the implication of what it tells me is that I'm not safe and have to take action or plan in order to stay safe.

Exercise
So what is „it“ EXACTLY? No more excuses. Physically, where is it? A ghost? A person in your head? Only a voice of a person in your head? Is it your voice? Where does it go when it doesn’t speak? How does a personless voice exist?
Sit with these questions and figure out what „it“ is exactly.


Love, Sarah

[Wildlichen]

Hi Sarah,

Yes, I understand and agree with those definitions.

So, the voice. It doesn't have any physical location. It's not really my voice, or the voice of anyone I know. It seems to pop into and out of existence, appearing under certain conditons. It almost seems like a computer program : under condition x (for example, sitting quietly and doing nothing ) run program y (voice that tells me I should worry about what's going to happen later). I think the computer program analogy feels appropriate because the content of what that voice says is quite predictable, as is the emotional tone. There's never any original thinking associated with it, it's the same old stuff each time.

So I guess "what it is" is a program, or habitual thinking, that isn't me (or anyone else), that has no volition or conscious choice, just a repeating pattern that simply happens under certain circumstances.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

Moss

[poshgeek]

Ok, it looks as if these voices are thoughts too, popping up without you summoning them.
You have explored your thoughts for a while. Would it be fair to say that you have no control whatsoever over your thoughts?

Exercise
Now study your emotions. How do these work? How are they triggered? What do they trigger? Are they connected with the thoughts?

Love, Sarah

[Wildlichen]

Hi Sarah,
Sorry I haven't replied - I have the flu. HopefullyI'll be better tomorrow.
Moss

[poshgeek]

I hope you get well soon.

Love, Sarah

[Wildlichen]

Hi Sarah,

Thanks for your patience.

Would it be fair to say that you have no control whatsoever over your thoughts?

It seems to me that I don't have any control over the content of the thoughts that arise. The only control I have is how I react to those thoughts and how much attention I give them.

Now study your emotions. How do these work? How are they triggered? What do they trigger? Are they connected with the thoughts?

It seems that emotions are triggered in reaction to thoughts. And also trigger thoughts (rationalising thoughts, interpreting thoughts). They also frequently trigger physiological responses and physical sensations.
They definitely seem to have some kind of connection to the thoughts, but I'm not sure if it's directly causal (thoughts trigger emotions or vice versa) or if it's more of a loose association.

Thanks!
Moss

[poshgeek]

Hi Moss, I hope you're feeling better.

It seems that emotions are triggered in reaction to thoughts. And also trigger thoughts

Exactly. Emotions and thoughts triggering emotions and thoughts triggering emotions and...
Can you find a beginning in this stream? Is new input needed or is this system self-sustaining?

Love, Sarah

[Wildlichen]

Hi Sarah,
Thanks! I'm feeling better than I was.

In answer to your question :

Can you find a beginning in this stream? Is new input needed or is this system self-sustaining?

It doesn't need new input. It keeps on generating itself, regardless of whether there are new experiences or not. So yes, it seems self sustaining to me.

I'm finding this process quite difficult - not more difficult than before I started this conversation with you, but just generally difficult over the past few months. Everything feels groundless and there's nowhere to hide. I can't trust in my thoughts or emotions or my perceptions of what happens around me because it all changes all the time. The physical world feels no more real than my internal world, and just as mutable. The meaningless of everything is becoming more and more apparent, but that often leaves me paralysed - when I take the judging of everything, and it's all meaningless, why choose one thing over another?

I feel like I'm losing my mind a bit... which I guess is the point. But my mind keeps looking for a place to run to and hide from the emptiness and I'm finding it very difficult to just be with it right now.

Thanks for all your help.
Moss

[poshgeek]

Dear Moss, I feel that this process has been going on for a while. You seem tired. I can relate. Please just don’t give up on our conversation. We‘re getting closer. Self want‘s to keep you from seeing.

Hmmm I wonder if you could take a little brake now and then by going into direct experience. I propose u do this several times a day: a few minutes of direct experience not when sitting still but when active. Really feel the walking when you walk. The water when you shower. The wind in your hair when outside. This could bring back some trust into what’s real.

Exercise
Sit and explore your self. That sense of being. Of living. Describe it to me the way it presents itself now.

Hang in there, Moss <3

[poshgeek]

Moss please don’t give up. You’re doing really good. It’s gonna get better once you’re through this!