Understanding clearly

[forgetmenot]

Hey E,

So you will always always get my experience filtered through thought. I can’t see a way round it. It seems to me like I’m communicating badly, but I’m not sure how to fix it.

Language/communication can be an issue, and that is why you will find that I will go over and over the same stuff in different ways to ensure that you are looking at what I am pointing at, so that your responses come from looking and not from thinking. Seeing there is no self and actually having the realisation are two different things.

The initial questions I asked was about seeing if there were any expectations as they can hinder the exploration and also hinder actually recognising that the realisation has happened.

I would like us to start with become aware of actual/direct experience.

If you have a ‘real’ apple then you can use that for this exercise.




Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Love, Kay

[Ermintrude]

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No, just sense experience and experience of thought.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

No - the experience is known, but the apple isn’t.

[forgetmenot]

Hi E,

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

No, just sense experience and experience of thought.

For the purpose of clarity, can you please not lump everything under 'sense experience'. It keeps everything clear when the experience be it taste, sound, colour etc are used when that is the experience that is appearing.

However, is an apple actually known?

No - the experience is known, but the apple isn’t.

Great, so the difference between actual experience and thought stories about actual experience is clear?

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

Love, Kay

[Ermintrude]

Great, so the difference between actual experience and thought stories about actual experience is clear?

I think so but please point it out if I'm expressing things wrongly.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

I'm in bed ill this afternoon so it has been interesting labelling sensations this way. Pain = just feeling sensation; stuffy nose = feeling sensation and smell; thoughts about illness, about tomorrow = just thought; fuzzy head = thought and feeling sensation. Wanting tea = thought. Picking up cup = feeling sensation.

I notice that with ordinary things – hearing traffic noise; seeing the room; tasting water – it's easy to label them just sound, visual sensation, taste. With pain and illness sensations, there's more desire to make them mean something – another thought.

Will continue and see how I get on.

Ermintrude x

[forgetmenot]

Hey E,

Sucks to be ill....but you are resting up which is good! :)

Great, so the difference between actual experience and thought stories about actual experience is clear?

I think so but please point it out if I'm expressing things wrongly.

I surely will be doing that! :) If you are answering from thinking and not LOOKING, I will pull you up. I am somewhat of a strict task master.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

I'm in bed ill this afternoon so it has been interesting labelling sensations this way. Pain = just feeling sensation; stuffy nose = feeling sensation and smell; thoughts about illness, about tomorrow = just thought; fuzzy head = thought and feeling sensation. Wanting tea = thought. Picking up cup = feeling sensation.

A great start to breaking down activities into AE!

I notice that with ordinary things – hearing traffic noise; seeing the room; tasting water – it's easy to label them just sound, visual sensation, taste. With pain and illness sensations, there's more desire to make them mean something – another thought.

Yes, nice observation that it is just another thought that desires to make meaning. The belief in the body and that the pain is happening to a 'me' seems to make whatever is happening personal. We will be looking at the body later on.

I would really like for you to look at the questions I gave you in the beginning again and answer them for me please It is good that we both know what expectations, if any, you have about what the realisation of 'no self' means, will bring, will look like etc. The questions about "what is missing" is one I would really like for you to tell me about. Is peace missing because...........? (ie seeking is still happening, emotions are still seen as something that is happening to me etc,).

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

I look forward to hearing further to what you noticed etc breaking activities etc into AE and reading your responses to the questions.

Hope you are feeling better.

Love, Kay

[Ermintrude]

It is good that we both know what expectations, if any, you have about what the realisation of 'no self' means, will bring, will look like etc.

It’s difficult for me to answer because I feel that I have this realisation, but people I respect say that I don’t. So mostly I would like clarity on this.

The questions about "what is missing" is one I would really like for you to tell me about. Is peace missing because...........? (ie seeking is still happening, emotions are still seen as something that is happening to me etc,).

I am not at peace, or enlightened, or anything like that! There is still struggle. I’ve read your disclaimer though and I don’t expect LU to fix this.

To give an example, a few weeks ago my five-year-old son had a week off school. When he returned, his best friend was now friends with someone else and was ignoring him. I watched my son go up to this child and try to join in and be rejected.

Internally, this was not at all ok with me! I had a belief that life was not allowed to be like this, and I wasn’t letting go of it! [thought] Feelings of anger rose up against (of all things) a small child. [thought and feeling sensation]. Memories of me being rejected as a child repeated [thought]. The mind repeatedly sought ways to fix this [thought]. At the same time, I was aware of all this enough to have perspective and not identify with it - but this was not enough to let it dissipate.

So while I did all the obvious things for a parent - comforted my son, encouraged him to play with other children, arranged some play dates - I also had this exhausting mental stuff going on.

I think it took a couple of weeks before I noticed that thought pattern wasn’t there any more. This is my experience - these struggles do go in the end - whether it takes seconds or months - and being aware and not identifying helps, but they do keep arising over and over again.

[have to go now - will write more later]

[forgetmenot]

Hello E,

Glad to see you are feeling better :)

It is good that we both know what expectations, if any, you have about what the realisation of 'no self' means, will bring, will look like etc.

It’s difficult for me to answer because I feel that I have this realisation, but people I respect say that I don’t. So mostly I would like clarity on this.

So, let's just do the exploration and see if there are any hidden beliefs anywhere that is seemingly keeping the realisation at bay. So, once again I ask that you to put aside everything you think you know or believe you know and just do this exploration with an open and curious mind. Knowing about something is thought while the knowing AS (the appearance) is direct and knowing via thought is not the tool used for this exploration. You always know exactly 'what is' by being directly aware of what is. Shifting from thinking to noticing AE can be frustrating and require some practice. This is about noticing what can be found in your immediate experience, noticing what's going on here now and responding to questions from your immediate experience…this is a key component to this exploration.

The questions about "what is missing" is one I would really like for you to tell me about. Is peace missing because...........? (ie seeking is still happening, emotions are still seen as something that is happening to me etc,).

I am not at peace, or enlightened, or anything like that! There is still struggle. I’ve read your disclaimer though and I don’t expect LU to fix this.

When initial realisation happens, there is a lightness, there is a definite shift in perception of what you are, what life is etc and this brings a sense of freedom/ease and happiness. The happiness does leave after a while, as all experiences do, and this exploration is just a beginning and not an ending, however the shift in perception stays and begins to deepen. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing as not everything gets rewritten in one big hit. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through, however, like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots that need undoing. But if you know that the ‘conditioning’ is not something that you own, then it is easier to clear. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.

To give an example, a few weeks ago my five-year-old son had a week off school. When he returned, his best friend was now friends with someone else and was ignoring him. I watched my son go up to this child and try to join in and be rejected.

Internally, this was not at all ok with me! I had a belief that life was not allowed to be like this, and I wasn’t letting go of it! [thought] Feelings of anger rose up against (of all things) a small child. [thought and feeling sensation]. Memories of me being rejected as a child repeated [thought]. The mind repeatedly sought ways to fix this [thought]. At the same time, I was aware of all this enough to have perspective and not identify with it - but this was not enough to let it dissipate.

Lovely break down of what is happening into AE, and it is the continual LOOKING, and seeing that there is no one who is angry is a key for these reactions to dissipate. However, there is no one who is controlling whether reactions happen or not. Anger is a secondary response as it covers what the actual emotion is because we don't want to feel the emotion that needs to be seen, acknowledged and felt and as childhood memories are appearing those emotions go back to childhood. So there are underlying beliefs yet to be seen, emotions yet to be allowed and felt and perhaps also a belief that it is wrong to be angry which then evoke feelings of guilt, inadequacy, failure etc. All these have to be seen and looked at to see if they are actually happening to a "me". Anger is appearing but there is no you who is becoming angry or who is angry.

The label ‘angry’ is AE of thought and not AE of anger
The sensation labelled ‘anger’ is AE of sensation and not anger
The image labelled ‘me/body/I’ is AE of colour and not AE of anger.
The thoughts about anger are AE of thought and not AE of anger.

Does the label, the sensation, colour or thoughts suggest in any way that they are anger or that they know anything about anger?

What is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts about anger, but can anger actually be found in AE?

So while I did all the obvious things for a parent - comforted my son, encouraged him to play with other children, arranged some play dates - I also had this exhausting mental stuff going on.

Yes, this exhausting mental stuff that is going on, as you know is called suffering. Suffering in practical terms looks like guilt, blame, pride, worry/anxiety, expectation and attachment to outcomes which all belong to the idea of being a person ie a separate self or that there are others who are separate independent entities who are thinking, feeling, saying, choosing and doing.

I tell everyone I guide that throughout our exploration I would like all my questions to be answered, even if they don’t seem relevant. I can tell a lot through answers given to the questions I ask,and by the responses given. It not only tells me what is not been seen, or that no LOOKING is taking place, it also tells what direction to take next.

I look forward to hearing how you went with breaking down activities throughout your day into AE and we will then move on.

With love, Kay

[Ermintrude]

Really busy day today I'm afraid - I will reply properly tomorrow.

Ermintrude x

[Ermintrude]

Sorry - probably shouldn't have started this at the weekend - I knew I was going to be busy. I haven't ignored your questions and will answer them all properly tomorrow when I have some time again.

E x

[forgetmenot]

That's okay...thank you for letting me know. I look forward to your post.

Love, Kay

[Ermintrude]

Hi Kay,

I'm back again to answer your questions.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

I've been doing this on and off for the last couple of days now. I don't manage it all the time – sometimes I'm too busy or forget.

If I remember I'm supposed to be doing it [thought] and then look at experience to label it, at first it seems like there is just experience everywhere. Then I run through the senses and kind of sort it out – visual sensation, sound, taste, smell, feeling sensation, thought.

On the other hand, sometimes something is the main focus of my attention and I start there – usually pain or discomfort [feeling sensation] or thought. Labelling seems like a relief then because it takes a step back from the content (like pain or discomfort or planning or remembering or solving) into just sensation or thought.

Yesterday was very busy, so one time I got to do this relatively uninterrupted was when I was driving home and my son was asleep. At one point on the journey, I noticed I was humming a tune. I could hear myself – just – over the noise of the car [sound], there was throat sensation [feeling], and also the mind was providing a complete backing track! [thought] At some points I stopped humming physically but the music continued mentally until I started humming again. It sounds strange, but I had to really pay attention to see whether I was hearing, feeling or thinking sometimes because it was so blended together.

How will life change? 
How will you change? 
What will be different?
What is missing?

I think I've covered these? But in case I haven't – I am happy just to see where this goes. Anything in the direction of less struggle and more joy is good.

Does the label, the sensation, colour or thoughts suggest in any way that they are anger or that they know anything about anger?

I'm not actually angry right now :) So I'm having difficulty checking.

As far as I recall though, the experience of anger was mostly physical sensations – tension in various places - and thoughts that kept repeating/obsessing rather than going away.

The label “anger” wasn't anger in any way, and I don't recall visual sensation being involved much. The thoughts – verbal or non-verbal - had angry content, I suppose. That is, I recognise certain kinds of thought content as being characteristic of anger.

There was no “anger” thing I could find in thought or feeling. Thought itself was not anger. The physical sensations aren't anger themselves.

What is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts about anger, but can anger actually be found in AE? 

Well, it wasn't thoughts about anger so much as thoughts with angry content and the way they persisted.

Anger can't be found in AE right now, because I'm not angry. But I think (is this too much theory?) that it's not a direct sensation – it's more a kind of recognisable pattern. So it couldn't be found directly in AE any more than an apple could.

Ermintrude x

[forgetmenot]

Hi E,

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

If I remember I'm supposed to be doing it [thought] and then look at experience to label it, at first it seems like there is just experience everywhere. Then I run through the senses and kind of sort it out – visual sensation, sound, taste, smell, feeling sensation, thought.

Great. So you are becoming clear to what actual experience is and noticing the thoughts about AE?

On the other hand, sometimes something is the main focus of my attention and I start there – usually pain or discomfort [feeling sensation] or thought. Labelling seems like a relief then because it takes a step back from the content (like pain or discomfort or planning or remembering or solving) into just sensation or thought.

LOOKING is not the same as seeking. Seeking is always towards something that is not present, or trying to get away from something that is present. Looking is investigating what is present; it's for no reason other than itself. It's done for its own sake. If you're expecting something from LOOKING, then you're not LOOKING, you're seeking for what you expect LOOKING will give you

At some points I stopped humming physically

The AE of humming is sound

but the music continued mentally until I started humming again.

Then music continuing mentally is thoughts about sound

It sounds strange, but I had to really pay attention to see whether I was hearing, feeling or thinking sometimes because it was so blended together.

Yes, exactly! That is why these exercises are given, so that you become aware of AE and notice how artfully it seems to come together into a story about a “me” humming.

Does the label, the sensation, colour or thoughts suggest in any way that they are anger or that they know anything about anger?

I'm not actually angry right now :) So I'm having difficulty checking.

So think of a story that seems to create anger and have a LOOK. We all have stories that automatically take us to anger, be it injustices seen in the world, cruelty etc.

As far as I recall though, the experience of anger was mostly physical sensations – tension in various places - and thoughts that kept repeating/obsessing rather than going away.

The obsessing looping thoughts is the suffering! The sensation is not the suffering. The underlying primary emotion is being covered by the anger, which is a defense mechanism to keep at bay the feelings we don’t want to feel as it brings back other so called ‘painful memories’, and this is what creates the looping. What needs to happen is to see what the primary emotion is and to acknowledge it, see the original story that goes with it, which is usually something that harks back to childhood, and allow the sensation/feeling to be in the body, giving it all the room that it needs without wanting it to be different or to leave.

The label “anger” wasn't anger in any way, and I don't recall visual sensation being involved much. The thoughts – verbal or non-verbal - had angry content, I suppose. That is, I recognise certain kinds of thought content as being characteristic of anger.

The body/I/me seemingly acting out in anger is what I was referring to. Throwing up of the arms, pacing, being jerky in movement, feeling the warmth of anger in the body etc which SEEMS to characterise somebody being angry, but that doesn’t make it so. The image labelled as body/I/me is AE of colour and not the AE of a person who is angry.

There was no “anger” thing I could find in thought or feeling. Thought itself was not anger. The physical sensations aren't anger themselves.

No, exactly. So anger is not known. A sensation appears which is labelled ‘anger’ and there are thoughts that describe anger and there are thoughts that appear to have an angry content about the story that SEEMED to create the anger, however, is anger actually known or is there only thoughts about a “me who is angry”?

Without thought, how is it known that thought have an angry content? Can thought content actually be angry?

What is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts about anger, but can anger actually be found in AE?

Well, it wasn't thoughts about anger so much as thoughts with angry content and the way they persisted.

Sorry, that I wasn’t clear. There are thoughts about anger (what anger is) and then the thought story that seemingly created the anger that cause the suffering and not the supposed anger itself.

I am going to give you an example of what I mean and I want you to look at your story about your son in this way and let me know how you go and what you find.

Let’s say that a thought appeared saying “I am so sad and lonely because I don’t have any friends”. And of course there is deep sadness and feelings of loneliness that appear with the thought.

Okay, so you LOOK to see if you can find anyone that is “sad and lonely” and you find no one/no thing. The AE of sad and lonely is thought that overlays sensations and thought.

So, take it one step further.

What does “I am so sad and lonely because I don’t have any friends” mean to you?

It could mean that you think people don’t like you, that there is something wrong with you.

And question that. What does people not liking you mean to you?

It could mean that you think you are unloveable and therefore there is something wrong with you.

Can you find anyone who is unlovable?

Then question that. What does being unlovable mean to you?

It could mean that you think you are not good enough.

Can you find anyone who is not good enough?

Then question that. What does not being good enough mean to you?

It could mean that you are unworthy and perhaps even inherently bad.

So then have a look to see if you can find anyone/anything that is unworthy or inherently bad.

And you keep going until there is no more meaning left. By doing this you are questioning each belief as it appears to see that there is no one to be found who is any of these ‘things’.
So it's not the story of not having friends that makes you feel sad and lonely, it is the belief that you are not good enough that is the thought that creates the suffering.

Anger can't be found in AE right now, because I'm not angry. But I think (is this too much theory?) that it's not a direct sensation – it's more a kind of recognisable pattern. So it couldn't be found directly in AE any more than an apple could.

Yes, lovely! The story about ‘anger’ appears with all the seeming actions, words etc that go with anger. However, what is actually appearing is simply sensation + thought as anger is not known.

Love, Kay

[Ermintrude]

Hi Kay,

Great. So you are becoming clear to what actual experience is and noticing the thoughts about AE?

Yes

The AE of humming is sound

For me, the AE of humming is feeling sensation (vibration in lips and mouth etc) and sound.

So think of a story that seems to create anger and have a LOOK. We all have stories that automatically take us to anger, be it injustices seen in the world, cruelty etc.

Anger’s not a big thing for me actually. I wrote about it because it was unusual. I notice it a few times a year. Injustice and cruelty makes me feel... sadness? Compassion?

If I think to myself (right now) “So and so is a terrible person! I hate them! I’m so angry” - it doesn’t actually make me angry - it’s just words. Even if I make an angry face, I don’t feel angry! So something is missing.

The body/I/me seemingly acting out in anger is what I was referring to. Throwing up of the arms, pacing, being jerky in movement, feeling the warmth of anger in the body etc which SEEMS to characterise somebody being angry, but that doesn’t make it so. The image labelled as body/I/me is AE of colour and not the AE of a person who is angry.

Can I ask about this? My AE of the body is almost all feeling sensation. Unless I look in a mirror, there’s hardly any visual sensation component. Things like “Throwing up of the arms, pacing, being jerky in movement, feeling the warmth of anger in the body” would be mostly feeling sensation, no?

Without thought, how is it known that thoughts have an angry content? Can thought content actually be angry?

So... recognising something is thought, right? If the first thought is “I wish he didn’t exist!”, then there might be recognition [thought] that that was an angry type thought. So without the recognition [thought] it wouldn't be known.

We’ve talked a bit about verbal thoughts perhaps because they are easy to write about. A lot of thoughts are non-verbal though – feelings perhaps? It feels like maybe there is an initial flash of anger [thought]. I'm not sure how else to describe it.

I am going to give you an example of what I mean and I want you to look at your story about your son in this way and let me know how you go and what you find.

OK.

It sort of boils down to “It's not ok for life to be like this. It's messing up all my plans. It's not ok for my son to be rejected by a friend. I need to protect him. I need to control things so that he is happy and accepted. It's impossible to fix this. I need to fix this!”

So, what does it mean?

It means that there's a belief that “I” need to control things. If only I get everything organised, then it will be fine.

So is there an “I” who controls things? Well, no, there isn't. So what does controlling things mean? What does getting things right mean?

It's a thought that “The way to be happy or make my son happy is to divide the world into good things and bad things, and keep the bad things away and only have the good things”

Would that work? Is that even possible? Is there anyone who can do that?

It's kind of appealing because it's my job to feed him healthy food and not broken glass etc, so there's some truth there. But keeping all bad things away completely? Not possible. Exhausting to try. Causing the struggle. Not bringing happiness.

So what are these “good” and “bad” things? What does it mean?

Just thought labels for stuff. Does there need to be this division? If I dropped it, how could I care for my son? Would I endanger him?

Are the thought labels true?

Well, no, they aren't true exactly. Just thoughts. But useful sometimes.

[Well, that veered off in an unexpected direction. I'm not sure that's what you were getting at as I didn't really go into self-belief directly. Let me know if you want me to do it differently]

Ermintrude x

[forgetmenot]

Hey E,

The AE of humming is sound

For me, the AE of humming is feeling sensation (vibration in lips and mouth etc) and sound.

Yes, sensation labelled as ''humming' is AE of sensation and not AE of humming. I was making the distinction between the actual sound of humming which is AE of sound compared to the ‘mental’ humming which is thoughts about sound.

If I think to myself (right now) “So and so is a terrible person! I hate them! I’m so angry” - it doesn’t actually make me angry - it’s just words. Even if I make an angry face, I don’t feel angry! So something is missing.

No, nothing is missing. If ‘anger’ doesn’t appear often then it doesn’t appear often. There is no you who is in control of what appears or doesn’t appear. Anger also appears as frustration, annoyance, impatience, irritation, exasperation, resentment.

And it is not about getting rid of anger, it is to see what anger actually is, and the best way to see that is when it is actually happening.

How is it known that the face is looking angry? Can you see your face? Or is it just an idea appearing that your face is appearing angry? How is it known that you have a head? Can you see your head?

The body/I/me seemingly acting out in anger is what I was referring to. Throwing up of the arms, pacing, being jerky in movement, feeling the warmth of anger in the body etc which SEEMS to characterise somebody being angry, but that doesn’t make it so. The image labelled as body/I/me is AE of colour and not the AE of a person who is angry.

Can I ask about this? My AE of the body is almost all feeling sensation. Unless I look in a mirror, there’s hardly any visual sensation component. Things like “Throwing up of the arms, pacing, being jerky in movement, feeling the warmth of anger in the body” would be mostly feeling sensation, no?

Yes, that is right. We will be looking at the body a little later on. I was referring to the physical gestures that are labelled as angry gestures. So if you see someone who is ‘angry’, what seems to confirm that is the physical gestures. Like kids having temper tantrums. However, in AE the body is AE of thought, as thought overlays colour and calls it a body. (Referring to ‘others’ bodies). The body that is labelled as ‘self’ is still AE of thought as thought overlays sensation + colour + smell etc and calls it a body.

Without thought, how is it known that thoughts have an angry content? Can thought content actually be angry?

So... recognising something is thought, right? If the first thought is “I wish he didn’t exist!”, then there might be recognition [thought] that that was an angry type thought. So without the recognition [thought] it wouldn't be known.

Yes, without thought how would even anger be known? Are thoughts themselves angry or know anything about anger? Anger is a description that tries to describe AE but AE is indescribable. Everything that you think, say, write is thought. Thought makes the distinction that they are different by breaking down thought into verbal, written and thought.

What is the AE of these type written words?
What is the AE of verbal words?
What is the AE of thought?

We’ve talked a bit about verbal thoughts perhaps because they are easy to write about. A lot of thoughts are non-verbal though – feelings perhaps? It feels like maybe there is an initial flash of anger [thought]. I'm not sure how else to describe it.

Unless the feeling has an actual sensation, then it is an idea and all ideas are thoughts. They can come as ‘mental’ images, or what thought describes as words. If thoughts were expressed via the tweeting of birds or an unknown language, how would you know what they meant? What meaning is given to thoughts are only just thoughts about thoughts.

It sort of boils down to “It's not ok for life to be like this. It's messing up all my plans. It's not ok for my son to be rejected by a friend. I need to protect him. I need to control things so that he is happy and accepted. It's impossible to fix this. I need to fix this!”

I have tweaked what you wrote, to help you put it on track. I am not saying this is what is happening to you, but this is how to ‘work’ it, so to speak.


It sort of boils down to “It's not ok for life to be like this. It's messing up all my plans. It's not ok for my son to be rejected by a friend.

So, what does it mean? Why does that bother me?

It bothers me because I am unable to protect him, unable to control things so that he is happy and accepted.

And what does that mean to me...why does it bother me that he is unaccepted?

It means that he is not likeable and if he is not likeable then he will be forever unhappy and alone and everyone will see that he is an outcast.

What does that mean to me? Why does that bother me?

That other kids, parents and teachers will see that he is an outcast and see me as a bad mother because it is my job to make sure that he is a nice person and is likeable and acceptable; so that he can be happy and belong, therefore it is my fault and I am a bad mother.

OR

My son will blame me for his rejection and unloveablity because I didn’t nurture him correctly. (These point to guilt about not being a good mother…failing as a mother).

Why does that bother me that others think this?

Because others (including partner) will think less of me and I will be disliked and rejected and this makes me a misfit, an outcast, a reject. (And we hide this inner stuff)

OR (If it is not a concern about others and what they think)

My son will grow up blaming me for being a bad mother and reject me, which makes me unloveable and therefore bad.

The whole mask built around being a ‘good mother’, is threatened because your son was rejected by his friend at school. So the “truth” is you are bad.

Feelings of guilt points to one’s own idea of self worth and is no longer covered up by defense mechanisms and it becomes your ‘direct’ experience. And the reaction is anger and the looping story, which hides the unwanted feelings of rejection, being unloveable and therefore being inherently bad, (as the blame is pointed outside to someone/something else) that were felt somewhere at other times in childhood, which are still playing out now.

But bringing it back to guiding. Taking it one step further because although it seems the suffering is derived from the story about your sons rejection which is really about your story about being unloveable...the suffering is because you are identifying as a mother, which is identifying as a separate self. Believing you are the one who is in control, is the sayer, feeler, thinker, chooser and doer.

In guiding to seeing 'no self', I don’t generally don't go this deep into it. This has come up and as a means to show you how to look deeper. If this type of digging is wanted it is something that is undertaken after the realisation of there being no self.

So now that the breakdown of the story is done, then it is to LOOK and see what it is exactly that is feeling rejected, unloveable and is bad and LOOK for that which is identifying as a separate independent self ie person.

What I want to move onto next is looking at the nature of thought.

Love, Kay

[Ermintrude]

But bringing it back to guiding. Taking it one step further because although it seems the suffering is derived from the story about your sons rejection which is really about your story about being unloveable...the suffering is because you are identifying as a mother, which is identifying as a separate self.

Oh woah woah woah! That’s not it at all!

I don’t want my son to be rejected by his friends, because rejection is PAINFUL and I know because I have experienced it. I love my son and don’t want him to feel that way. And because he had been happy and now he wasn’t.

I honestly don’t believe either he or I are unloveable! Where did that come from? I mean I do sometimes feel like a bad mum but not in this case.