To see what there IS to be seen

[Ben2]

Go for it!

You’ve got this ;)

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

Just replying to say that I'm looking, but I can't answer those questions yet (busy days here...).

I'll be back soon.

Thanks!

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

1: Can it be known how tall the body is?

As my eyes were closed, I lose the referential, so I cannot really know how tall the body is...

2: Does the body have a weight or volume?

The only pointers to weight or volume are sensations. I cannot precise them...

3: In direct experience does the body have a shape or a form?

The same as Question 2...

4: Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

That is though... I can feel the clothing through sensations. These sensations may be seen as boundaries, but these are content of thoughts interpreting the sensations. So, in direct experience, these are sensations (dropping the interpretation of them).

5: Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

The same as Question 4.

6: Is there an inside or an outside?

That's the worst one... Because the "inside" may be interpreted as that "black hole" where the sensations are recognized and thoughts appear. But those are interpretations. So, I cannot precise it... It is like inside is that I described and the outside is all the rest.

7: If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

The body... The "canvas" where all sensations, feelings and thoughts appear.

8: If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

Beyond the body.

9: What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

To this organism and all its functions.

10: What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Sensations. Nothing more.

Looking forward your reply...

Thanks!

[Ben2]

Excellent looking.

A couple of posts ago you said “in my direct experience I find thoughts located inside me.”

Now that you’ve done that last exercise, do you still believe that?

What exists in DIRECT experience?

Ben

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

As I could not precise the inside/outside with the eyes closed, I cannot say that thougths appear "inside". They just appear in the region of the brain.

It's weird, but it's like thoughts are sensations too...

Thanks!

[Ben2]

Does “the brain” exist is direct experience?

Have you ever experienced “the brain” directly?

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

I would say I experience it when I have a headache (or at least I experience "the head"), but that is a sensation too.

So I can't experience "the brain", I only can experience thoughts (wich are direct experience) that appear to it, or at least to this region of the body.

Thanks

[Ben2]

HI Curupira

Excellent looking. It’s important to keep breaking things down in this way as much as you can.

How much are you looking? I’m not sensing much intent or progress from your replies.

How much do you want to see through the illusion? At this point I was like a red hot burning bushfire, ready to give my life to see though the illusion no matter what happens. Usually that’s the level of intent required for it to happen.

How much do you want the truth? Why do you want truth?

Ben

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben.

I'm pretty much looking almost all the time now. Almost all day long.

I'm 101% sure I want to see through the illusion. The reason that I want to see it its simply because it is the TRUTH. I cannot accept nothing less than the TRUTH.

Maybe I'm not showing these feelings to you for some reasons like:

- I'm strictly answering what you are asking, trying not to go beyond it and confuse myself. I have some questions but I remember you saying that I should answer yours so all the others would fall by themselves (something like that). I'm sorry if I misunderstood something...

- I already read something about this shift and every text says that it is effortless. So when I start to "burn", I always "come back" and calm me down...

- All the "looking without the mind" still puzzles me.. The mind still has some doubts about how to LOOK...

All I can say is that I'm beyond the phase of the fear (at least I think I am...), that fear of disappear and so. That's because I know nothing really changes, there is nothing to lose. "Chop wood and carry water".

If I could report some progress (or "side effect"), I've noticed the following:

- Sometimes I see clearly the body acting before the mind. For example: I was looking for my keys, wich I didn't remember where I had put them. The keys were on my desk, in a room behind me. I clearly see the body turning and going to the room and then the thought "the keys are in the desk" popping up... It is very fast, but I could see it...

Waiting for you...

Thanks!

[Ben2]

That’s excellent, really good to hear how much you’re looking.

I find intensity is the key that pushes most of my clients through in the end. I suggest giving it a trial, maybe put some force and intensity behind your looking, as though your life depends on it. Sounds dramatic and it may not be the way for you, but its worth a try. For me I just thought about all the suffering I had caused myself and others and had just had enough at that point. It created this intensity that pushed me through within about 24 hours. We’re all different, but see how you go.

In terms of seeing the body move before the mind, this is a really good sign. Let’s go along with that for a bit.

Rest your arm on a table. Move it upwards off the table. Just observe what happens whe doing this for a while.

Can you find the exact moment that the decision is made to move the arm?

Good luck!

Ben

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

I find intensity is the key that pushes most of my clients through in the end. I suggest giving it a trial, maybe put some force and intensity behind your looking, as though your life depends on it. Sounds dramatic and it may not be the way for you, but its worth a try. For me I just thought about all the suffering I had caused myself and others and had just had enough at that point. It created this intensity that pushed me through within about 24 hours. We’re all different, but see how you go.

I don't find this "rage" anymore... A couple of years ago it would be very easy... :)

Things are much lighter to me nowadays, but I'll try to find something... I'll take sometime with this and report you back.

Rest your arm on a table. Move it upwards off the table. Just observe what happens whe doing this for a while.

Can you find the exact moment that the decision is made to move the arm?

I cannot find it. Not even the thought about it. But this aspect confuses me a bit, because we are used to blame the subconscious for such actions. It is like when we learn how to drive and a couple of months after it is not necessary to think to drive a car.

And, yeah, subconscious is not direct experience. :) I think it is just another "layer" or "veil" created on top of what is real.

But, going "full direct experience", no, there is not any thought about raising the arm after repeating the movement sometimes.

Thanks!

[Ben2]

Yes, that’s right. Let’s always go “full direct experience” ;)

Can you find someone who is in control anywhere that you look?

Is there a person inside your thoughts that can choose which thought to think?

Is there a separate person found in any of the sensations in the body?

See if you can find it!

Ben

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

Can you find someone who is in control anywhere that you look?

I see things happening. But I still see/feel as I can control something. I know that the feeling of that execise (to raise the arm), in direct experience, it is like no one is thinking about the arm being raised, but it is not that intuitive yet for all other actions throughout the day. I'll keep looking.

Is there a person inside your thoughts that can choose which thought to think?

No. Thoughts just appear. Good thoughts, bad thoughts, they all appear. I think we can just try to be more positive to have good thoughts, but we can't choose them. We can try to not put energy to a bad thought but we can't really prevent it to appear.

Is there a separate person found in any of the sensations in the body?

No, not a separate person, just me sensing the sensations. And by "me" I can say that's the whole package (body, sensations, thoughts).

On a side note, I think I should drop the "observer"... I still feel as I'm the one observing all this happening. I don't know how yet...

One thing that happened, that I don't know if it is a "side effect" of this looking I'm doing or not, but I'll tell you. I was talking to my wife then I noticed a fly on the wall by my side (the wall is painted in beige). When I noticed it, I could not see the wall. It was like the fly was floating in a "beige space", not on a wall... This reamained for some seconds...

Waiting your reply.

Thanks!

[Ben2]

Hi Curupira

The key here that I’ve been to focusing on is the word FEEL. You FEEL that there’s someone in control. This is key.

The illusion is caused by the way thoughts have appeared as thouh they are CONNECTED to sensations in the body. Generally these are expressed as tension in the body, or emotions, which are forms of contractions or tensions in specific areas of the body. But without you seeing this for yourself it’s theoretical and pointless information.

So let’s try breaking down some emotions and see how you go.

Have a look for me throughout the day and let me know a frequent emotion that comes up for you. All I want you to do for now is write to me and tell me what thoughts produce the emotion, and where it’s felt in the body.

In terms of the fly thing that happened, visual changes are common throughout the entire process, so it’s definitely a good sign.

Good luck!

Ben

[Curupira]

Hi, Ben!

That's pretty interesting. I'll look for some recurrent emotion.

I'll be back soon.

Thanks!