How do you do this? What's the general technique for this from LU?It's easy to believe in the thinking. It's also relatively easy to check if the thinking is aligned with what is going on at the moment or is creating an illusion - when you know how to do this - but this takes some practice.
^ This is really all of the most painful sufferingWhat has changed is that there used to be a constant worrying about if the self was a bad self compared to other selves, that running commentary that used to bring so much suffering has been largely neutralized.
There is no control over when the thought cloud layers come in, they are just the habitual and predictable responses to stimulus.Oh, yes. You can play with this. See if you have any control over the thought layer clouds.
This is all of the continual suffering too, thinking I need to push thoughts around with other thoughts. its like Alan Watts said, that is like trying to smooth disturbed water with your hand. To just accept these waves as they come without trying to solve them would make them just like the waves lapping at the shore; not a harm to anyone.It is possible that, after seeing how you can't control thoughts, no matter how hard you try, you can just let them be without thinking that you should be doing something about them (like if you are listening to a annoying radio station).
Yes, thinking more is never helpful in cutting through thought.
J: Should the self and control illusions be further examined, say in an every day routine?
C: If you have doubts yes. Absolutely. Unless that by examined you mean to think harder about these subjects. Thinking more will not be helpful. You have to look to see what is really going on, instead of relying in thinking.
I don't have doubts, but I think a practice of examination would be great as a core routine. Can you give any recomendations? How have other LU people done this?
Ha! The idea that a veil must be lifted and poof is just another thought floating through the experience. If given a whole lot of attention and importance it too could become the foundation for a thick cloudy thought layer of trying to lift the illusion.Effort may be necessary. It seems to me that you are still expecting something to change, like if a veil could be lifted and voilá, no more illusions. Eventually this idea that you have to dissolve the rest of the illusions will stop bothering you and you will reach the next level: dealing with daily life, without expecting something special to happen (like the dissolution of the illusions). This, of course, is just my point of view. There are many people in groups connected with LU doing further investigation to dissolve the rest of the illusions and they seem to think they are getting results, so it's highly possible that may point of view is very biased. Different people, different outcomes.
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The present moment has this amazing quality that an imaginary moment doesn't has: it's real :)
You seem to have got what we point to really fast. Keep writing until you feel sure that you saw the illusion. What I would like to ask you next is to give me one example or two of situations that let you know there isn't a you in control of a slice of life. So, can you please have a look and describe what you see in your present experience that makes you say there is no controller? Thanks.
I love the present moment! It has so much depth!
In the present, I look at my body and search for the point where I feel there is a controller of experience, and eventually that search dissolves in to a crystal clear experience of reality where movements, sounds, feelings, thoughts are spontaneous and there is no perceived separation between the body and its surroundings. The mind had conceived of this metaphysical separation as kind of a volume-less protective coating of nothingness separating the body and its environment, or between the controller (visualized as a point of light in the heart) and the outside environment (including the body). Either way it felt like there was an impenetrable boundary between the "me" and "outside". When looking for this boundary it is evident that it does not exist. The body, the chair it rests on, the feeling of the head, the air behind it, are all one, parts of the same painting. In this painting there is the imagined idea of separation.
