I

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

. This body and personality feels unworthy, worthy. I look out these eyes so I'm involved with it somehow! I feel the sensation. This intimacy of me experiences this.

Thank you.

Please notice this sensation of looking out of the eyes.

Here is a little exercise. Please have a go at it.

Convemtionally it is sad that 'I see' and it is assumed that it is 'eyes' or 'the body' that is 'me' that is doing the seeing.

So, right here and now, examine this. The words on this screen are being seen. What are they being seen by? What is the immediate experience of seeing actually like? Is it of looking through eyes to see words, is it of a 'my body seeing', or is it simply seeing happening?


Best wishes,

Jon

[springwater]

Hi Jon,

So, right here and now, examine this. The words on this screen are being seen. What are they being seen by? What is the immediate experience of seeing actually like? Is it of looking through eyes to see words, is it of a 'my body seeing', or is it simply seeing happening?

I don't know what they are being seen by really. There is just seeing happening.

Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

. don't know what they are being seen by really. There is just seeing happening.

Good. With such exercises as these its very important to do them exactly as suggested.

So you don't know what the words on the screen are being seen by. That's also my experience, by the way. If I just stop and notice what its like to see and especially who is what is 'doing' seeing, I really don't know. And it does seem to be just happening.

What about hearing then? Sit quietly somewhere and become aware of all sounds, From quiet ones such as breathing to louder sounds such as voices or traffic or nearby machinery. Just notice whatever is heard.

Now, is there just hearing, happening?
Or is it that 'ears hear' or that someone /something labeled 'me' does ' hearing'?

Examine the experience as it happens this moment.

Are there thoughts during this hearing exercise that seem to comment or narrate about what is going on?

Are there any moments where there is just the hearing without any extra labelling or commentary by the mind?

In the hearing can you find a hearer?

Love

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

Now, is there just hearing, happening?

Yes, like the seeing...hearing is just happening.

Or is it that 'ears hear' or that someone /something labeled 'me' does ' hearing'?

I don't know if it's maybe 'ears hear'. I mean someone who is deaf it would be ears don't hear. But no on someone/something labeled 'me' does 'hearing'...it is just happening.

Examine the experience as it happens this moment.

Are there thoughts during this hearing exercise that seem to comment or narrate about what is going on?

There are thoughts of wonderment in noticing this. Thoughts of noticing there's nothing doing this

Are there any moments where there is just the hearing without any extra labelling or commentary by the mind?

Yes

In the hearing can you find a hearer?

Something is experiencing analyzing what's being heard.

Thanks Jon :)
Renee

[JonathanR]

Renee

. Now, is there just hearing, happening?
Yes, like the seeing...hearing is just happening.

Good.

. Or is it that 'ears hear' or that someone /something labeled 'me' does ' hearing'?
I don't know if it's maybe 'ears hear'. I mean someone who is deaf it would be ears don't hear. But no on someone/something labeled 'me' does 'hearing'...it is just happening.

it's important to go by your own experience here.

Can it be known what someone else's experience is like for them, except by inference or thinking?

. Examine the experience as it happens this moment.

Are there thoughts during this hearing exercise that seem to comment or narrate about what is going on?
There are thoughts of wonderment in noticing this. Thoughts of noticing there's nothing doing this

ok. Good.

. In the hearing can you find a hearer?
Something is experiencing analyzing what's being heard.

Ok. Would you say that this amounts to thoughts that appear as the hearing is happening but that the analysis is something extra , something added on to the hearing?

When you say 'something experiences analysing', could you please examine this a little further?

Find out if there is really a something.

Find out if there is 'something' that 'experiences analysing' or is there just analysing happening?



All best,

Jon

[springwater]

Hi Jon,

Can it be known what someone else's experience is like for them, except by inference or thinking?

Right, no.

When you say 'something experiences analysing', could you please examine this a little further?

Find out if there is really a something.

Find out if there is 'something' that 'experiences analysing' or is there just analysing happening?

It's more I want to say that there is something that notices...experiences everything that's going on. Yes, I guess the analysing is just happening like the seeing and hearing...

But the noticing and the cognizing...something is noticing...something is aware of what's happening. There is some intimacy in this.

I'm leaving tomorrow for a week trip and will not be able to get to our conversation I don't think. I'll be back on Nov. 8th.

Thank you,
Renee

[springwater]

Jon,

But please respond so I can contemplate some more!

Thank you so much Jon,
Renee

[springwater]

Jon,

Awareness seems to just be happening too. But there isn't a what or a who that is aware that I can find. But what perplexes me is the intimacy in this. The intimacy in this I don't know how to say it. There is intimacy in whatever is allowing seeing hearing aware-ing...like love.

Thank you very much Jon,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hello Renee,

. But the noticing and the cognizing...something is noticing...something is aware of what's happening. There is some intimacy in this.

Well from experience it does seem that there is noticing, cognising or awareness going on. Would you say that this much is true?

And in language we are more or less forced to speak in terms of a 'something' that 'notices'. But can a one that does noticing be found in the experience of noticing?

There can be thoughts ABOUT 'something' , an entity or self, or whatever it is that is imagined to be doing the noticing. But is it possible to find that one?

You're doing very well now.

Have a wonderful break and I look forward to hearing from you in a week or so.

Best wishes,

Jon

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

Hope you had a great time?

Listen. I am also off for a few days starting 10 November until 12th, so please write to me if you can on 8th or 9th, so that we can exchange a couple of posts before that happens?

Thanks,

Jon

[springwater]

Hi Jon,

Well from experience it does seem that there is noticing, cognising or awareness going on. Would you say that this much is true?

I don't understand the question but I would say yes from experience there is noticing and congnizing and awareness going on.

And in language we are more or less forced to speak in terms of a 'something' that 'notices'. But can a one that does noticing be found in the experience of noticing?

There is something intimate in this noticing...in what's aware...I am perplexed by this...this intimacy. Can I find a 'one', no, but I am this intimacy, this love (I don't know how else to say it! :)

There can be thoughts ABOUT 'something' , an entity or self, or whatever it is that is imagined to be doing the noticing. But is it possible to find that one?

Yes there are thoughts about someone doing the noticing. But when I look there is just noticing...from this intimacy...arghh this is killing me...it is not a 'one'. It is this intimate something...I don't know!!

Thanks,
Renee

[JonathanR]

Hi Renee,

Yes there are thoughts about someone doing the noticing. But when I look there is just noticing...from this intimacy...arghh this is killing me...it is not a 'one'. It is this intimate something...I don't know!!

Ok. So you can't find someone doing the noticing but there is an intimacy?

BUT there are thoughts about 'someone doing the noticing'?

Could it be that there simply isn't the 'someone' that had been imagined? Just thoughts ABOUT a someone, a 'me' that is assumed to personally be doing the noticing?

Could it be that there are such thoughts of about 'me' but that the intimate noticing just happens, regardless of what thoughts have to say?


best wishes,

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

Could it be that there simply isn't the 'someone' that had been imagined? Just thoughts ABOUT a someone, a 'me' that is assumed to personally be doing the noticing?

Could it be that there are such thoughts of about 'me' but that the intimate noticing just happens, regardless of what thoughts have to say?

Yes, it could be there are just thoughts ABOUT a someone personally doing the noticing. And yes, it could be there are thoughts about a 'me' doing it but the intimate noticing just happens regardless of the thoughts.

So that leaves me with this intimacy and not knowing

Thank you,
Renee

[JonathanR]

So that leaves me with this intimacy and not knowing

How does this feel?

Say more please?


Thanks

Jon

[springwater]

Jon,

So that leaves me with this intimacy and not knowing

How does this feel?

Say more please?

I feel afraid not knowing because that might mean no control.
No control. No 'one' there.

This feels freeing and unnerving. There seems to be safety in control.

What is recognizing all this...I know we talked about it. The intimate noticing just happens. Is there something behind this? I want to know what this intimacy is. What's behind it.

Have a great trip. Look forward to connecting when you return.

Thank you,
Renee