Final Seeing

[Metta1]

Hi Kay

However, is a brain actually known?

That was really helpful. To break down the thing into AE step by step. Brain is not known.

The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Seeing is just happening. It cannot be turned off. There is no choice. It is.

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the blank sky?
Can you turn off seeing?

Again there is no choice. What is happening is just happening.

Last question, in this whole exercise, what did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

The chooser is an illusion. There is no chooser. What happens (happening) is what happens (happening).

I will keep on LOOKING at AE until this thing cements.

Thanks so much
Cheers J

[forgetmenot]

Good afternoon, J!

However, is a brain actually known?

That was really helpful. To break down the thing into AE step by step. Brain is not known.

Breaking down everything into AE is always good. Don’t’ believe ANYTHING thought says, without checking its claims against actual experience.

So, with ‘resistance’ or ‘fear’, for example:-

The label ‘resistance’ is AE of thought and not AE of resistance
The sensation labelled ‘resistance’ is AE of sensation and not AE of resistance
The image labelled ‘me/I/body” is AE of colour and not AE of resistance
Thoughts ABOUT ‘resistance’ are AE of thought and not AE of resistance

What is actually appearing is label + sensation + colour + thoughts (about resistance), which are known, however is ‘resistance’ actually known?

Just replace the word ‘resistance’ with any emotion, including fear to see what is actually known and what is just story about what is known.

The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?
Seeing is just happening. It cannot be turned off. There is no choice. It is.
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the blank sky?
Can you turn off seeing?
Again there is no choice. What is happening is just happening.
Last question, in this whole exercise, what did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?
The chooser is an illusion. There is no chooser. What happens (happening) is what happens (happening).

If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?


Let’s look at the idea of ‘separation’ a little further.

Look at this doodle. It looks like there are a lot of things?




Life seems to be a gigantic soup of experience that is grouped, categorised and labelled as things. There seems to be a ‘me’ that is ‘here’ that is experiencing things that are ‘out there’. And all those things ‘out there’ are all individual separate things.

None of it is separated except through thought because all of the images present are just one big canvas. Sounds overlap and intrude on each other, and there is a thought that says “I can separate bird song from car horns. Look! See? I've just named them!” But what is actually appearing is sound, with perhaps an image of a bird and an image of a car, and thoughts ABOUT sound appearing as a bird and car!

And thought appears saying “I can separate a cat from a book. See, I’ve just named them!” But what is actually appearing is colour and thoughts ABOUT colour appearing as shapes/images labelled ‘cat’ and ‘book’.

‘Things’ seemingly appear and there are never not things, but have a LOOK to see what is actually appearing; what actually IS.

What separates things? What makes up the borders? Can we pluck a thing out of the scenery in front of us? If not, is it truly separate or is it thought about variation in observed qualities which makes it so?

The next time you are watching television, look at the screen and see whether you can pluck an object from the scene. Are there objects existing inside the screen or is the image a seamless whole? What is it that makes it seem as though there are separate objects in the picture? Are they truly separated?

I will keep on LOOKING at AE until this thing cements.

Just a couple of things to help you with the cementing of AE :)

Thought labels colours, sensations (cold/hot/pressure etc) and so on as a body - but no actual body is present. Thought does this with *everything* that seems to exist to create the 'person in the world' illusion.




Notice what is actually present, what is actual experience in this image. Thought says it's a cartoon character called Bart Simpson, but all that's actually there is yellow, red, blue, white, black. There is no Bart present in the image at all.

Can you see that Bart is 100% just a story? The body is a story in the same way.

Also notice that the thing which thought claims is your body doesn't even have a head!
Can you see a head or are there only thoughts about a head?

Close the eyes and put a tip of a finger to the top of the head. Now, ignore all thoughts and images about a ‘fingertip’ and ‘head’ and what is the actual experience?




What is a rose? Perhaps a nice red and green flower with a pleasant smell and some sharp thorns?
But LOOK again - all that is actually present are red and green, a nice smell and maybe an 'ouch' sensation. The rose itself is only a story.

Notice that all things that seem to exist are just like the rose. Just fictional stories about experience. Beyond the story, can any of them be found in actual experience to exist at all?

Love, Kay

[Metta1]

Hi Kay

Thank you for another great exercise in Looking.

Just replace the word ‘resistance’ with any emotion, including fear to see what is actually known and what is just story about what is known.

I can see it is all just story. I can see I can't believe anything thought/story tells me. This is quite confronting.

If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

A very good point. There is only this awareness that cannot be chosen. It is just appearing. I cannot choose thoughts they too are just appearing. All in experience is just appearing by itself. It is clear but the illusory I is having a hard time accepting this. Again any lack of agency is quite confronting. There is a small refusal to accept this.

What separates things?

Only colour and labels.

What makes up the borders?

Only differences in colour.

Can we pluck a thing out of the scenery in front of us?

Only thought can label something as separate when all is just one giant screen. Body sensations are also part of this screen.

If not, is it truly separate or is it thought about variation in observed qualities which makes it so?

It is only thought, but this habit is quite strong.

Can you see that Bart is 100% just a story? The body is a story in the same way.

Yes I can see this. Just labels.

Also notice that the thing which thought claims is your body doesn't even have a head!
Can you see a head or are there only thoughts about a head?

I cannot see a head, only thoughts create a head.

Close the eyes and put a tip of a finger to the top of the head. Now, ignore all thoughts and images about a ‘fingertip’ and ‘head’ and what is the actual experience?

The AE of this is just sensation. Anything else is a story that thought makes.

Notice that all things that seem to exist are just like the rose. Just fictional stories about experience. Beyond the story, can any of them be found in actual experience to exist at all?

All 'things' are merely labelled. In actual experience there is only colour and thought - labels. What about movement? Thought tells me that if a thing moves it is sentient.

As you can see Kay, the complete lack of agency is quite confronting. I'm not exactly sure what it is that is refusing to fully allow this.

Thanks again.

Cheers J

[forgetmenot]

Hi J,

Just replace the word ‘resistance’ with any emotion, including fear to see what is actually known and what is just story about what is known.

I can see it is all just story. I can see I can't believe anything thought/story tells me. This is quite confronting.

Let’s have a LOOK at ‘fear’ in another way. I want you to ask the questions of yourself as you are LOOKING. You can LOOK at ‘resistance’ or any ‘emotion’ this way.

1. Close the eyes and see the word ‘fear’ in the mind’s eye and ask yourself if the label/word ‘fear’ knows anything about fear. And just be firm with the mind and stay with the word ‘fear’, no matter what other words the mind brings up…and just focus on the word ‘fear’. See the word ‘f e a r’ in your mind’s eye and ask yourself if that word knows anything about fear.

2. With eyes still closed, go to the sensation (wherever it is located in the body) and ask yourself if the sensation itself knows anything about fear? Can a sensation actually know anything about fear?

Have a look within the sensation and behind the sensation to see if you can locate anyone/anything that is in fear.

3. As your eyes are closed…a mental image/outline or an idea of a ‘me’ may appear, I want you to ask yourself if that image/outline/idea can know anything about fear?

And have a look around, still with your eyes closes…and have a look if you can find anything that can be in fear.

Then sit there with the ‘fear’. Just notice the sensation and notice all thoughts and images that come up…but don’t follow the thoughts and images…just be with the sensation. Just notice your breathing and breathe normally. And if the fear intensifies (check your breathing) and do the process all over again...until the fear begins to subside or dissipates. If it doesn’t dissipate totally, that is okay…you can get up and do stuff but just be aware of the sensation but don’t do anything with it….just notice it and love it. And how do you love it…by letting it be. And if you stop noticing it...that is okay too!

Let me know how you go with looking at 'fear'.

If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

A very good point. There is only this awareness that cannot be chosen. It is just appearing. I cannot choose thoughts they too are just appearing. All in experience is just appearing by itself. It is clear but the illusory I is having a hard time accepting this. Again any lack of agency is quite confronting. There is a small refusal to accept this.

How can an illusory (ie non existent) “I” have a hard time accepting anything….it is an illusion! There is a thought appearing about an “I having a hard time accepting this”, but that is a thought about an “I”.

Does the illusory Santa Claus actually have problems accepting that it is an illusion? However, when it is seen that Santa is just a character, did the character actually disappear forever? No, it is still seen every year at Christmas time. Nothing really changed, did it? Christmas still comes and goes, gifts are still exchanged, Christmas carols are still sung, snow still falls and Santa still appears. However, what is different is that perception about Santa Claus has changed, he is no longer seen as real.

And is it true that thought is trying to accept something, that it knows something, and that it is having a hard time accepting something? Or are thoughts simply repeating their story, with variations about something trying to accept?

What makes up the borders?

Only differences in colour.

How is it known that there are many different colour/S? If you drop all the different colour labels, what happens?

If not, is it truly separate or is it thought about variation in observed qualities which makes it so?

It is only thought, but this habit is quite strong.

Says thought! However, that is why LOOKING is important. Each time a thought like that appears…LOOK to see for what exactly is the habit is strong for? When LOOKING happens becomes constant, every day, a new habit is formed as LOOKING happens automatically, but you must ‘grow’ the habit by continuously looking day in and day out.

What about movement? Thought tells me that if a thing moves it is sentient.

Start to walk slowly

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking/movement’ be found?

What is the AE of 'others' or so called 'sentients'?

When you watch a show on TV and you see a car moving. Is the screen actually moving, or there is just an appearance of a car moving?

Experience/THIS can be likened to a TV screen. Just like a car on the screen, what the car is made of (the screen) isn't moving. So movement is just a concept....just a thought. It's an idea based on space and objects.

As you can see Kay, the complete lack of agency is quite confronting. I'm not exactly sure what it is that is refusing to fully allow this.

"As you can see Kay, the complete lack of agency is quite confronting. I'm not exactly sure what it is that is refusing to fully allow this" is nothing but a thought and points to nothing other than more thought.

How can thoughts about a "me" be stopped? (Which means the same as to dissolve the sense of being someone)
Is there anything special about "me-thoughts?"
What exactly is the difference between a thought about "me" and a thought about -let's say- Santa Clause, or marmalade?
If you see a difference, please tell me about it elaborately.


Love, Kay

[Metta1]

Hi Kay

Thanks for being so thorough with the looking. I'm feeling a bit like a yoyo. Clarity to fuzzy etc.

Let me know how you go with looking at 'fear'.

Good old thought strikes again. Fear is only a sensation which thought labels. Sensations cannot know about fear, only thought labels. An image can know nothing about fear either. By just sitting with it, it dissipates.

However, the following questions arose. Who/what is aware of sensations? Who or what is sitting with sensations? etc. Are these just thought too?

However, what is different is that perception about Santa Claus has changed, he is no longer seen as real.

This helped a lot. A reminder that nothing will change except a perception.

How is it known that there are many different colour/S? If you drop all the different colour labels, what happens?

There is just a screen with shapes. One big blob.

you must ‘grow’ the habit by continuously looking day in and day out.

What do you say to getting out of the head/thought and just being with what is?

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

Just sensations. Body is just a label to describe.

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

No, just sensations which thought calls 'walking'.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking/movement’ be found?

It is just thoughts about a body. I can't find walking, just sensations. But movement is implied by the change of scenery.

What is the AE of 'others' or so called 'sentients'?

There is colour.
There is a label / thought, person, cat etc.
However, movement is still a challenge unless I see the whole screen. Then it is just appearance of movement within the screen.

When you watch a show on TV and you see a car moving. Is the screen actually moving, or there is just an appearance of a car moving?

The screen does not move, but there is appearance of a car moving.

How can thoughts about a "me" be stopped? (Which means the same as to dissolve the sense of being someone)

Thoughts about a me cannot be stopped. I know the trick is to see through these thoughts but this comes and goes.

Is there anything special about "me-thoughts?"

When it is clear they are just thoughts. When it is fuzzy thought tells me its a problem.

What exactly is the difference between a thought about "me" and a thought about -let's say- Santa Clause, or marmalade?
If you see a difference, please tell me about it elaborately.

When it is fuzzy and a me thought pops up to create separation. There is a me looking /seeing here at something out there. The locus of looking returns back behind the eyes, and things are seen out there. Thoughts about Santa don't create this sense of separation.

I heard on the podcast that this yoyo effect is commonly encountered. When awareness opens wider it is less evident.

Glad you are guiding me through this in and out period.

Cheers

J

[forgetmenot]

Hey J,

This is a long post...take your time with it.

Let me know how you go with looking at 'fear'.

Good old thought strikes again. Fear is only a sensation which thought labels. Sensations cannot know about fear, only thought labels. An image can know nothing about fear either. By just sitting with it, it dissipates.

If you don’t think about it, do you know that this sensation is something called ‘fear’?
Is there any inherent fear in the sensation itself?
Go to the sensation at the soles of the feet. Would you label that sensation ‘fear’? Or is it just a neutral, undefined tingling sensation?

Now compare the sensation of the soles of the feet – which is just neutral sensation – and the sensation in your chest (labelled ‘fear’)…what is the difference between them? A little bit more intense, but apart from that – any difference?

However, the following questions arose. Who/what is aware of sensations? Who or what is sitting with sensations? etc. Are these just thought too?

There is no witness/observer of experience, as there is no division between ‘knowing’ and ‘known’. For there to be an observer and an observed = separation. Can you find a division between ‘awareness’ and ‘awared’ (ie knowing and known)? And can you find any entity that could possibly be aware?

This can be further investigated in another thread on another forum on the LU website once the realisation of ‘no self’ has occurred. However, becoming aware of that which is aware can be helpful as part of the journey to seeing through other beliefs and conditioning/programming about what actually IS ie THIS.

However, what is different is that perception about Santa Claus has changed, he is no longer seen as real.

This helped a lot. A reminder that nothing will change except a perception.

It’s not that nothing will change. The one constant is change, however change can be perceived as good or bad. Once the realisation of no self occurs, there is a shift, which means a change, but it can be a very subtle shift. And once other beliefs start to be seen for what they are, they begin to fall away and therefore others shifts do take place. But if there is an expectation of huge changes and seeing a bright light or that old conditioning will fall away in one foul swoop….well this is what causes problems, as these are expectations that hinder the seeing that the realisation has already occurred! For some it’s a WOW and for others it can be subtle, but there is a change/shift.

How is it known that there are many different colour/S? If you drop all the different colour labels, what happens?

There is just a screen with shapes. One big blob.

Sit and look at the ‘body’. What is there but colour (we are only looking at colour for this exercise)? Can a dividing line be found between colour labelled ‘body’ and colour labelled ‘chair’? Can a dividing line be found between colour labelled ‘chair’ and colour labelled ‘floor/rug’? Can a dividing line be found between colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and colour labelled ‘wall’?

Can divisions, space, distance or separation be found at all between colours labelled body, chair, floor/rug, wall, room? Can a dividing line found between “different colours”, or is there just colour?

you must ‘grow’ the habit by continuously looking day in and day out.

What do you say to getting out of the head/thought and just being with what is?

And what is it exactly that is getting out of the ‘head/thought’? What is it exactly that can or is “being with what is”? What does that even mean? How can you never not be…is there not the knowing of sound, thought, smell, taste, sensation and colour? Are you in control of what you are aware of? Can you control what appears? Can you choose what you are aware of? Is there a ‘head’?

Is there really such a thing as attention and focus? Or is experience always exactly as it is. What is it exactly that tells a story about "now this is in focus and that is out of focus" or “need to pay attention to this or that”?

Can such a thing as ‘walking/movement’ be found?

It is just thoughts about a body. I can't find walking, just sensations. But movement is implied by the change of scenery.

Yes, you’re right, movement is implied. However, where is the evidence that there is a you, who is walking through the scenery?

What is the AE of 'others' or so called 'sentients'?

However, movement is still a challenge unless I see the whole screen. Then it is just appearance of movement within the screen.

Movement isn’t going to stop to show you that there is no movement. Movement is implied. Movement isn’t being denied, it’s just becoming aware that the screen on which movement appears…does not move itself. It never changes, and is never affected by anything, only the appearances change, but those appearances are the screen and are not separate from the screen. If there were never to be appearances on the screen ever again…would the screen disappear? Once again this can be looked at deeper, if desired, after this thread has come to a conclusion.

Is there anything special about "me-thoughts?"

When it is clear they are just thoughts. When it is fuzzy thought tells me its a problem.

Where exactly is this “me” that thought tells about problems of fuzziness? Are you not totally aware of that thought? Is that thought fuzzy or is it seen in complete clarity?

I heard on the podcast that this yoyo effect is commonly encountered. When awareness opens wider it is less evident.

It's absolutely normal for this sort of "thought rippling", or “yo-yoing" to happen. I don’t know of anyone who didn’t go through this.

But again, are you not completely clear and aware of the thoughts about yo-yoing and the appearance of yo-yoing, and you are totally aware of thought that say that there is a ‘me’ who is yo-yoing. But can you find this me, or is it just an appearing story about a ‘me’, which you are clearly aware of?

Questions and doubts show up, and they are met by answers and the two "ripples" slowly cancel each other out. Every single question and every single doubt that comes up, you have the answer to. You can test this. Next time you have a question or a doubt, don't share it with anybody and see if the answer shows up in crystal clarity on its own.
Let me know what happens.

Love, Kay
xx

[Metta1]

Hi Kay

I’m in a workshop all day and will keep looking and reply to this post tomorrow.

Cheers J

[forgetmenot]

Thanks for letting me know :)

K

[Metta1]

Hi Kay

I've just been through our whole post and it is now clearer but not clear as yet. When fear arose a whole lot of thought came with it and I got caught up in it and was unable to LOOK without being able to Look at thought. Interestingly at the workshop I noticed the body would talk and make jokes etc without any me deciding to do it.

If you don’t think about it, do you know that this sensation is something called ‘fear’?

When I don't think about it, it is just a sensation.

Is there any inherent fear in the sensation itself?

Only thought labels it as fear, but there is nothing in the sensation itself.

Go to the sensation at the soles of the feet. Would you label that sensation ‘fear’? Or is it just a neutral, undefined tingling sensation?

Interesting isn't it, that if the sensation is in the chest it is labelled fear but in the feet it is just tingling and neutral. It is only thought that makes a story out of it.

Now compare the sensation of the soles of the feet – which is just neutral sensation – and the sensation in your chest (labelled ‘fear’)…what is the difference between them? A little bit more intense, but apart from that – any difference?

There is tension and clenching in the chest while the feet are relaxed. It is the clenching that gives the interpretation thought fear. I guess this is just habit.

Can you find a division between ‘awareness’ and ‘awared’ (ie knowing and known)? And can you find any entity that could possibly be aware?

I'm still working on this one. If I look very carefully and directly there is no division. But not quite at the point where I can say they are the same thing but becoming known.

For some it’s a WOW and for others it can be subtle, but there is a change/shift.

Yes, I have had wow and subtle shifts before. Each time it is different. I called this post Final Seeing because obviously I was missing something for it to retreat each time.

Can divisions, space, distance or separation be found at all between colours labelled body, chair, floor/rug, wall, room? Can a dividing line found between “different colours”, or is there just colour?

I'm really struggling with this one. When the colour changes it appears to have a dividing line. When it all goes to 2D it is easier to see the 'screen' on which the film is appearing but I still see a dividing line when in 3D.

Are you in control of what you are aware of? Can you control what appears? Can you choose what you are aware of? Is there a ‘head’?

Yes seen in this light, my idea was ridiculous. There is just appearances appearing without choice. Just what is. Just an image of a head, thought of a head but these too are just what is appearing.

Is there really such a thing as attention and focus? Or is experience always exactly as it is. What is it exactly that tells a story about "now this is in focus and that is out of focus" or “need to pay attention to this or that”?

Experience is as it is, anything else is just a story. All is appearing as it is.

Yes, you’re right, movement is implied. However, where is the evidence that there is a you, who is walking through the scenery?

Yes, there is just movement. Any thought about a 'me' is just a story. I have to accept that things will always appear as they did before. However, when all is clear the screen becomes very evident but it isn't at the moment. Continuing this part of the investigation after the thread has concluded would be welcome.

Where exactly is this “me” that thought tells about problems of fuzziness? Are you not totally aware of that thought? Is that thought fuzzy or is it seen in complete clarity?

This relates to the avalanche of thoughts that arose with the fear. For a while it appeared that I couldn't see when looking coz thoughts took over and obscured everything. I am now just going back to blah blah rather than getting caught up in what thought is saying. I think I also got a bit uptight about everything.

It's absolutely normal for this sort of "thought rippling", or “yo-yoing" to happen. I don’t know of anyone who didn’t go through this.

Whew that is a relief. It is good to be able to go back to simply looking to clear up again.

But again, are you not completely clear and aware of the thoughts about yo-yoing and the appearance of yo-yoing, and you are totally aware of thought that say that there is a ‘me’ who is yo-yoing. But can you find this me, or is it just an appearing story about a ‘me’, which you are clearly aware of?

It is just a story which I got lost in. It is good to know that the getting lost in the story and then being clear again is a normal process and even that is all just appearing.

Questions and doubts show up, and they are met by answers and the two "ripples" slowly cancel each other out. Every single question and every single doubt that comes up, you have the answer to. You can test this. Next time you have a question or a doubt, don't share it with anybody and see if the answer shows up in crystal clarity on its own.

I'm not sure about this. It seems active LOOKING is needed for clarity to show up.

At the moment I am really sitting with this...

no divider between the 'knowing' of thought and the thought (known) itself. And if there is no dividing line then there cannot be an experiencer of experience....there is just experience.

That dividing line seems to be a key. It is weird a part of me KNOWS and another part finds this difficult to accept.

I will keep on LOOKING.

Thanks Kay

Cheers J

[forgetmenot]

Hello J,

If you don’t think about it, do you know that this sensation is something called ‘fear’?

When I don't think about it, it is just a sensation.

Yes, so when the sensation arises, you notice that the label ‘fear’ arises with it. So just notice sensation and notice label and notice the thoughts about it all. Begin to break it down into AE everytime it appears. That is why I give you the breakdown because you can use it when the idea of fear appears and go through the process of breaking it down ‘mentally’ ie breaking it all down to yourself, so that it becomes clearer and clearer.

The label ‘fear’ is AE of thought and not AE of fear
The sensation labelled ‘fear’ is AE of sensation and not AE of fear
The image labelled ‘me/I/body’ is AE of colour and not AE of fear
The thoughts about ‘fear’ are AE of thought and not AE of fear

So, what is actually appearing/happening, what is ‘my’ actual experience in this moment is label (thought) + sensation + colour + thoughts that marry these all together and call them ‘fear’ and thoughts about fear.

The key is to see them as the individual experiences that they are and actually see them that way and ‘label’ them for what they really are ie label, sensation, colour etc.

Now compare the sensation of the soles of the feet – which is just neutral sensation – and the sensation in your chest (labelled ‘fear’)…what is the difference between them? A little bit more intense, but apart from that – any difference?

There is tension and clenching in the chest while the feet are relaxed. It is the clenching that gives the interpretation thought fear. I guess this is just habit.

And isn’t that clenching (contraction) just sensation?

Can you find a division between ‘awareness’ and ‘awared’ (ie knowing and known)? And can you find any entity that could possibly be aware?

I'm still working on this one. If I look very carefully and directly there is no division. But not quite at the point where I can say they are the same thing but becoming known.

And this won’t happen overnight and it won’t happen in the time frame of our exploration. That is why I told you that this exploration is just a beginning and not an ending. There will be many things that you will become aware of during our exploration but won’t actually realise until way after this exploration.

For some it’s a WOW and for others it can be subtle, but there is a change/shift.

Yes, I have had wow and subtle shifts before. Each time it is different. I called this post Final Seeing because obviously I was missing something for it to retreat each time.

No, you weren’t and aren’t missing anything. You have an expectation that isn’t falling into line to how you think it should be.
There is no one there to be sucked into thought. Thoughts say many things and not all they say corresponds to actuality.
Next time you watch a tv show or a movie, notice how you get sucked into the story; notice how emotions come up and judgments appear. Then all of a sudden, there is like a flip back to the room. As if focus zooms out.

Observe how it happens.
Is it different from being sucked into mind movies?
At which point is there a decision to snap out? Is there one that makes that decision or does it simply happen, effortlessly?"

Can divisions, space, distance or separation be found at all between colours labelled body, chair, floor/rug, wall, room? Can a dividing line found between “different colours”, or is there just colour?

I'm really struggling with this one. When the colour changes it appears to have a dividing line. When it all goes to 2D it is easier to see the 'screen' on which the film is appearing but I still see a dividing line when in 3D.

Only because you think there are many different colours. They may seem different, but what makes colour red, different to colour blue. If you completely ignore the label red and blue are they not simply colour?

Look at simple objects - food, chairs, stones, the TV remote etc. See that there are only colours, sensations - hardness, coolness, heaviness, whatever. Keep at it until the object in itself is seen clearly to be a story.

Then move onto a character reading the news on TV.
Really see that there are only colours and sounds.
See clearly that the person is only a story.

Move onto a dog or a cat.
See that there are only colours, a 'woof' or a 'meow', sensations of softness, furriness. Does the animal itself actually exist?

Move onto strangers in the street. Watch them walking around.
See clearly again that there are only colours and sounds.
That's all that's *actually* present.
See that the people are only a story.

Look at ‘yourself’ in a mirror. Do you actually find anything there other than colours?
Try to find ‘your’ body. Can you find it? Or can you only find experience?

And then move onto friends and family members.
Same exercise once again - but perhaps trickier because of the emotional stuff that comes with family.
If a person appears in a night time dream was there ever anything there except experience? Was there a person, or was there only ever a 'dream character' - just colours, sounds and sensations?

Let me know how you go.

Love, Kay
xx

PS: You are doing really well :)

[Metta1]

Hi Kay

Thank again for wise words. It is getting clearer all the time.

The key is to see them as the individual experiences that they are and actually see them that way and ‘label’ them for what they really are ie label, sensation, colour etc.

I'm doing this more and more now. I can see that mental image is a big factor for me.

And this won’t happen overnight and it won’t happen in the time frame of our exploration.

This comes and goes. Sometimes it is very clear and other times it isn't. But I can sometimes see that there is no separation between what is experienced and the awareness of that experience. These things are not two.

notice how you get sucked into the story

Yes flip flop.

Observe how it happens.
Is it different from being sucked into mind movies?

I haven't been able to specifically notice when it happens as yet. The story takes over and it is ages before I notice. I will try it with a tv show / movie tonight.

Only because you think there are many different colours. They may seem different, but what makes colour red, different to colour blue. If you completely ignore the label red and blue are they not simply colour?

Aah yes. I see this now. Different colour but just colours never the less.

I am still working with the rest of it so can't respond as yet.

Will keep looking and report back tomorrow.

PS: You are doing really well :)

Whew. That is good news. There is so much to see and keep seeing. So very very helpful. Thank you again so much.

Cheers J

[forgetmenot]

Good evening J!

The key is to see them as the individual experiences that they are and actually see them that way and ‘label’ them for what they really are ie label, sensation, colour etc.

I'm doing this more and more now. I can see that mental image is a big factor for me.

Can you control what mental images appear. If a mental image appears referencing something in the past or something that may or may not happen in the future….when is that mental image actually appearing?

For the sake of you being able to perceive mental images differently, I am going to make an artificial distinction between 'mental image' and 'visual sight'.

Visual sight = the image that seemingly appears in the ‘outside world seen through the eyes’. Mental image = images that seemingly appear ‘inside a mind’ and is not the image of the current picture seen by the eyes, but rather just a reappearing image from ‘memory’.

Since both definitions are about the body seeing and having experiences, neither of these definitions are true. These 2 definitions are about time and space. So in reality there are no such things as 'mental image' and 'visual sight'. There is only image/colour. Only thought labels them as 'visual' or 'mental'.

And this won’t happen overnight and it won’t happen in the time frame of our exploration.

This comes and goes. Sometimes it is very clear and other times it isn't. But I can sometimes see that there is no separation between what is experienced and the awareness of that experience. These things are not two.

When I look at a fan, I see a fan, I don’t immediately see that the fan and I aren’t separate! I have to stop and look. There is a knowing that there is no separation, but if I want to really become aware of it, I have to stop and look. What I am trying to say is that I hope you aren’t expecting to become ‘one’ with everything. What does that even mean and how would that look?

Only because you think there are many different colours. They may seem different, but what makes colour red, different to colour blue. If you completely ignore the label red and blue are they not simply colour?

Aah yes. I see this now. Different colour but just colours never the less.

Yes, they appear as different colourS, but are just colour – no division, not plural.

I am still working with the rest of it so can't respond as yet.

That’s okay, you can do them at your own pace. You do not need to report to me about what you notice etc. It was just a deeper AE exercise :)

PS: You are doing really well :)

Whew. That is good news. There is so much to see and keep seeing. So very very helpful. Thank you again so much.

You have LOOKED diligently everytime you have gotten an exercise, and at what I am pointing to and when you haven’t been clear you have said so. You have done very well and are doing very well.

What I would like you to do now, is just go back and read your entire thread from the beginning to the end. Redo exercises if you feel drawn to do so. When you have finished reading, just let me know how you went, what became clearer, and ask any questions that arise while you are rereading your thread, or ask questions about anything that is not clear. No need to rush the reading...take your time.

Love, Kay

[Metta1]

Hi Kay

Thanks for being so thorough.

There is only image/colour. Only thought labels them as 'visual' or 'mental'.

This was very helpful. It took the life out of mental images. Just colour - yeah!

What I am trying to say is that I hope you aren’t expecting to become ‘one’ with everything. What does that even mean and how would that look?

No I don't have that expectation. However, it is becoming clearer that everything is just awareing/experiencing.

What I would like you to do now, is just go back and read your entire thread from the beginning to the end. Redo exercises if you feel drawn to do so

I will go back through the whole post and note any questions that arise and any new seeing.

Talk in a few days.

Cheers J

[forgetmenot]

Hey J,

There is only image/colour. Only thought labels them as 'visual' or 'mental'.

This was very helpful. It took the life out of mental images. Just colour - yeah!

Yay! :)

I will go back through the whole post and note any questions that arise and any new seeing.
Talk in a few days.

Terrific, I look forward to hearing from you :) You will probably have a few giggles as you go through it!

Love, Kay

[Metta1]

Hi Kay

Thanks again for your help. I have been through the whole post. Gotten stuck on some occasions. And just kept looking, and looking and looking again.

So in reality there are no such things as 'mental image' and 'visual sight'. There is only image/colour. Only thought labels them as 'visual' or 'mental'.

This was really helpful - taking the labels visual and mental off just image helped make it clearer that there is nothing 'special' or important about mental images - just images.

Next time you watch a tv show or a movie, notice how you get sucked into the story; notice how emotions come up and judgments appear. Then all of a sudden, there is like a flip back to the room. As if focus zooms out.

Observe how it happens.
Is it different from being sucked into mind movies?
At which point is there a decision to snap out? Is there one that makes that decision or does it simply happen, effortlessly?"

It is clear now that I am sucked into the story usually by having thoughts/judgements about it. Then the screen reappears by itself. All happening without intention or decisions.

Nothing has 'shifted' as such but there is a deep silence here. The silence is louder than anything else - sounds, sights, thoughts, sensations. It is like a gap has appeared but I couldn't tell you what that gap is. I can't even say that there is no 'me' here or that there is a 'me' here. I don't even know what a 'me' is apart from a thought.

Earlier today there was a lot of sadness which were just sat with. Or should I say there was a sensation with the label/thought sadness. It passed.

I have also been experiencing quite strong body sensations again which were just looked at. Most of it is easing now.

Thank you for the reminder that this is just the beginning. During our thread I have also been using the 'Deep Looking' practices which seem to have 'loosened' things up a bit.

Not sure how to proceed from here other than continue looking interspersed with 'Deep Looking'.

Thanks a million

Cheers J