Going back and forth

[amrita]

Hi Etienne,

this sounds very positive,

To be honest it's very liberating and a bit spooky (in a cool way) at the same time. There is something that does not want the illusion to end but it seems to be fading.

What exactly is the "something" that does not want the illusion to end?

I'm going away for a few days and will be back on Tuesday. Please take some time to explore the perspective of life without "I" and compare it to life with an "I" as a central point of reference. I agree it"s very liberating :)

lots of love

amrita x

[etape33]

Hi Amrita,

To be honest it's very liberating and a bit spooky (in a cool way) at the same time. There is something that does not want the illusion to end but it seems to be fading.

What exactly is the "something" that does not want the illusion to end?

Whatever it was it hasn't come back up. I'm aware of a sense of tiredness or resignation.

Please take some time to explore the perspective of life without "I" and compare it to life with an "I" as a central point of reference. I agree it"s very liberating :)

The main thing I've noticed is the difference between getting "sucked in" to a thought that seems to reinforce the I or staying open, where things are (mostly) just happening. I seem to recognize the getting sucked in faster. There is more of a relaxation in the open state and things flow more easily. I'm still aware of a certain reactivity but it doesn't (usually) take over. And if it does it only seems like a few moments before a release is triggered and the space opens up again.

When I do get sucked in to a thought, it's like that is all that there is, like my world is only the thought. Otherwise the world is much larger.

Sending love,
Etienne

[amrita]

Hi Etienne,

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner but I was away in nature and hopefully we can pick up our conversation where we left of.

How are things going with you?

Have you seen through the illusion of an I or a self?

when you say,

The main thing I've noticed is the difference between getting "sucked in" to a thought that seems to reinforce the I or staying open, where things are (mostly) just happening. I seem to recognize the getting sucked in faster. There is more of a relaxation in the open state and things flow more easily. I'm still aware of a certain reactivity but it doesn't (usually) take over. And if it does it only seems like a few moments before a release is triggered and the space opens up again.

When I do get sucked in to a thought, it's like that is all that there is, like my world is only the thought. Otherwise the world is much larger.

How do you get sucked into a thought? And what is it that "sucks" you back out into the open state? In other words how do you disidentify from the content of thought to seeing it as just another thought?

lots of love to you

Amrita

[etape33]

Hi Amrita

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner but I was away in nature and hopefully we can pick up our conversation where we left of.

Lovely :-)

How are things going with you?

Interesting. I'm very aware now that when I close my eyes there seems to be a never ending stream of thoughts and images. My sleeping patterns have been different.

Have you seen through the illusion of an I or a self?

I have seen through that; however I'm not sure where I am now.

How do you get sucked into a thought? And what is it that "sucks" you back out into the open state? In other words how do you disidentify from the content of thought to seeing it as just another thought?

I've spent time today thinking about this and trying to isolate it, but I'm not really sure that I have any control over it. I try to put my focus on the empty space, but soon there are thoughts that seem to fill up the space.

Sending love
Etienne

[amrita]

Hey Etienne,

This sounds very interesting,

Interesting. I'm very aware now that when I close my eyes there seems to be a never ending stream of thoughts and images. My sleeping patterns have been different.

Can you say how your sleeping patterns have been different?

In relation to seeing through the illusion of an I or a self here is the first confirmation question. Answer from your direct experience rather than a theoretical perspective if that makes sense.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Lots of love

amrita x

[etape33]

Hi Amrita,

Interesting. I'm very aware now that when I close my eyes there seems to be a never ending stream of thoughts and images. My sleeping patterns have been different.

Can you say how your sleeping patterns have been different?

I think there used to be more of a routine, but now it happens when it happens.

In relation to seeing through the illusion of an I or a self here is the first confirmation question. Answer from your direct experience rather than a theoretical perspective if that makes sense.

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there are just thoughts and feelings and a body and things happening. There was a belief that there was a separate self, but that was shattered.

Sending love,
Etienne

[amrita]

Hey Etienne,

Nice answer. Here are the next two confirmation questions to see if there is anything more to do here. As always, please write from your actual experience rather than an intellectual place.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Lots of love

amrita x

[etape33]

Hi Amrita,

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Wow, I'm not sure. It's a thought that isn't even experienced as a thought. It's experienced as an unquestioned reality. It's the idea that people are independent entities that have complete control over their fate. It's the idea that there is a being that is separate and needs to differentiate themselves from other beings.

It's taught and reinforced by society. From the viewpoint of the self, others are competition and it has to do things to be valued. It has to work hard, stand out, and achieve recognition for its actions. Looking into the world from the viewpoint of the separate self, the separate self seems true. Once, it is seen to be an illusion, then the viewpoint shifts.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels calm, open, and liberating. Before I was always looking for an answer and some peace. Now there is just (mostly) acceptance. The past few days I've noticed that time feels different. Like that has opened up as well and life is not about getting to the next place or a strict schedule. That's not really it either, but I don't know how else to describe it. My experience is just larger and more open, more peaceful, even though stuff still happens all the time.

Sending warmth and love,
Etienne

[amrita]

Nice one Etienne,

Here are some more questions that may help develop more clarity on this process..


How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Anything to add?

love to you

amrita x

[etape33]

Hi Amrita

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The whole idea of control. I think there was something that kept trying to control things and do something that got in the way. Once that was understood, I could relax and just be.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Decisions are available choices that just happen. I am still aware of intention but I don't know where it comes from. It seems to be just another thought or afterthought.

Free will is an illusion. Things just happen and if there is a will i am unaware where it comes from. Choices are made but there is no separate self that makes them. Control isn't necessary - everything just happens.

I don't know what makes things happen, but they do. Things are in motion, energy arises, objects move. It's wonderful.

I'm not even sure that responsibility makes any sense anymore. If things just happen, who is there to be responsible for them?

Today I travelled from my small town to a very large city, and there was just awareness of the people, the buildings, feelings and emotions that came up, thoughts about everything, the body's reaction to the thoughts, and lots of space.

Anything to add?

Not right now. I'm sure there is more though.

Thanks again
Xx Etienne

[amrita]

Beautiful answers Etienne,

Enjoy the perspective :). As you say there is just energy and spaciousness. It is wonderful! Let's give it some more time but I think our work is done here unless there is anything else you would like to look at.

Lots of love to you

Amrita x

[etape33]

Hi Amrita,

I had tons of questions before but now there is nothing coming up. Like you said, things may come up as life goes on.

Thank you so much for your help and guidance. I really appreciate your support.

Sending love,
Etienne