self for sale, one careful previous owner?

[gondwana]

The most direct way, the way without a distance, not only to enter this but to end all of that illusion is to see that thought is just a story.

I understand that is the case, but it seems nothing happened yet.

To see that and thereby look at what is left when thought content is abandoned.

I'm not sure I have seen yet then, because I have no idea what is left after thought is abandoned. How do I see that?

And to see, that also that what would do the abandoning, is content.

I think I understand, but to no effect yet.

This is a signpost for us to pull the emergency break. Because we are already way too deep into the land of concepts :-)
...

Ok I probably should have just said "I don't know"! I just wanted to offer some kind of response to make progress.

Are you ready to see that ALL you think is genuine, is not?
Are you really ready to end this illusion and see that the person you think you are never existed in that way?

Yes! I definitely am!!

This is "NO JOKE"!

I am deadly serious about this, don't worry.

If you are not ready for it, that's not a problem. But you must tell me. Are there personal aspects, that you fear you could lose for good? Is there any fear or resistance coming up when looking at what is written above?
We need to be aware of that!

I'm not afraid of that. Sometimes you have to leave things behind to move forwards.

Also if these things are just a story anyway, then there is nothing to lose in the first place.

So I don't feel fear or resistance to what you said. Perhaps just frustration that I don't know how to see what you're pointing at, even though I want to. It's frustrating when someone is showing you something you believe must be true, but even though it should be right in front of your face, you don't see it yet. That is the main thing I'm feeling.

I did not search this long to find the gate, only to turn back again and not pass through it! (Accepting of course, that there is no gate ;-) )

Does the body experience, or is the body experienced?

The body is experienced.



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[Matthew]

I am deadly serious about this

Sounds good!

Ok I probably should have just said "I don't know"! I just wanted to offer some kind of response to make progress.

Acknowledging that you don't know, when in fact you don't know, is the kind of "progress" we are looking for.
Acknowledging "nothing", when looking for something and not being able to find anything, is the kind of "progress" we are looking for.


Since we've started this, you've learned a lot about what looking is compared to thinking.
I want you to use these skillful means now. This is where we exactly need it the most.

Find a quiet spot and a quiet time. Close your eyes, if you wish to.
Bring up the thought "I" and look at it. To bring it up, say it loudly many times or just as a thought.
Ignore the surrounding thought stories about this "I", look at this particular thought exclusively in isolation.
When it's right there in front of you, observe it like a hawk bearing these questions:

Does the thought "I" react?
Does "I" do anything? Can "I" do anything else as to appear as "I"?
Does "I" think?

I'm not sure I have seen yet then, because I have no idea what is left after thought is abandoned. How do I see that?

Can "I" see?

I think I understand, but to no effect yet.

Can "I" understand?


Is it this "I", which is doing the looking right now?
If not, can that what is doing the looking be found? Is there anything, or just more thoughts?
Is there anyone or anything doing the looking right now?

[gondwana]

Acknowledging that you don't know ... Acknowledging "nothing", ... , is the kind of "progress" we are looking for.

Noted!

Bring up the thought "I" and look at it. To bring it up, say it loudly many times or just as a thought.

At first I want to say nothing at all came up. Zero reaction to that. Not sure what that means.

Does the thought "I" react?

No.

Does "I" do anything?
Can "I" do anything else as to appear as "I"?
Does "I" think?

No. It does nothing, it just sits there.

Can "I" see?

No, it's nothing, it's just a thought puppet.

Can "I" understand?

I'll be honest, not sure. For what just came up, I want to say no. But then, what is understanding what you're saying right now.

Is it this "I", which is doing the looking right now?

No.

If not, can that what is doing the looking be found? Is there anything, or just more thoughts?

Well I dunno, there's something there but I can't see what it is. I don't know.

Is there anyone or anything doing the looking right now?

Not sure.

There's an awareness.



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[Matthew]

But then, what is understanding what you're saying right now.

Is "something" a requirement for understanding to happen?
Is a subjective reference point in general a necessity for life to happen?
Does a tree need something to do the growing?
Is "I" required for seeing to happen?

[gondwana]

Is "something" a requirement for understanding to happen?
Is a subjective reference point in general a necessity for life to happen?
Does a tree need something to do the growing?
Is "I" required for seeing to happen?

No! Absolutely not!



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[Matthew]

Here's another pretty good explanation for looking by forgetmenot:

"LOOKING is not the same as seeking. Seeking is always towards something that is not present, or trying to get away from something that is present. Looking is investigating what is present (ie actual experience); it's for no reason other than itself. It's done for its own sake. If you're expecting something from LOOKING, then you're not LOOKING, you're seeking for what you expect LOOKING will give you."

Where exactly is "I" in seeing?

[gondwana]

Where exactly is "I" in seeing?

It is not involved or necessary to look and see.



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[Matthew]

During an extensive dialogue with another client yesterday, it became perfectly clear that..
Yes! This is all "deadly serious" and profound and fundamental and such. And it IS serious in terms of there being hardly a more game changing insight.
What it leads to, however, the result is nothing serious. Not at all!
It is something joyful, playful and humorous. Upon seeing the humor in all of this, she started looking and seeing for the first time. Maybe we all should use this result as the path every now and then.

Let us try it:

Remember the time when it was great fun engaging in roleplaying as a kid.
Maybe you've been a cowboy, maybe a police officer or Batman.. Whatever!
Then there were friends and family telling: "Hey, you are really good at playing Batman!"
"You are making up the best Batman!"
"Yes, I know. You are ACTUALLY Batman!"

Imagine an innocent child falling into this most forgivable error of taking the role as literal and believing it to be real.
Believing that YOU ARE actually Batman. "Well if the child is happy with being Batman, let him be"
Imagine by constant reassurance you'd have believed until this very day that you are actually Batman. Until someone came and told you: "Hey! Wake up! You are actually not Batman!"
-> Resistance. "Yes, I am!" "I have been that and have been called by this name my whole life!"

As you can tell, it is exactly the same with your current role. No matter if it is more credible than Batman. No matter if it seems to make more "sense" within the framework.
There is no difference. It is just a role and you have never been any of it, never been any of the thousands of facets it has been playing out as.

This has never been more than a childlike innocent fallacy.
This has never been less than the unpersonal entirety of experience in which all this play happens.

[gondwana]

It is just a role and you have never been any of it, never been any of the thousands of facets it has been playing out as.

This has never been more than a childlike innocent fallacy.
This has never been less than the unpersonal entirety of experience in which all this play happens.

Ok, this makes a lot of sense. I've seen the reactions in some others' guiding sessions and they reacted with laughter and relief on realising the truth.

I can completely see why it would just be a light and amusing moment to finally see the game that has been played! I totally buy into that.

I don't feel anxious at the end result at all, and you're right we should not take the process so seriously.

So if I'm not me, then who am I?




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[gondwana]

Who or what!



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[Matthew]

I could simply tell you, what "you are" in reality. Or better said: What there is. What is left when the illusion about a separate self has dissolved. When there is no notion whatsoever about "I". When ALL forms of identification are transcended. But I want you to SEE it.
Telling a story about this would be of no benefit, it would only give rise to a new belief, as it happened countless times.

So if I'm not me, then who am I?

We already had a very close look at this "I".
We saw that it does not react, it does not think, it does not see and that it cannot understand.

If you again have a close look at "I"..
Can it be anything else than "I"?
Can it ever become anything?

Are you that "I"?


Do the same with 'Tim'.
Bring up this word=thought and have a close look at it.

Can 'Tim' be anything else than 'Tim'? Can 'Tim' do anything else than to appear as 'Tim'?
Can 'Tim' ever become anything?

Are you 'Tim'?

[gondwana]

But I want you to SEE it.

Ok makes sense!

Can it be anything else than "I"?
Can it ever become anything?

No and no, it is just a thought character/story.

Are you that "I"?

No.

Can 'Tim' be anything else than 'Tim'?
Can 'Tim' do anything else than to appear as 'Tim'?
Can 'Tim' ever become anything?

No! It appears to be just another thought puppet, a character story.

Are you 'Tim'?

No.



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[Matthew]

Is there an impression that there is a someone or a something on a path to grasp something, which is not yet seen clearly?

[gondwana]

Is there an impression that there is a someone or a something on a path to grasp something, which is not yet seen clearly?

No, I didn't get that.

It was more like just a puppet without any intelligence looking back at me.



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[Matthew]

Oh sorry for the confusion.
This was a general question. About the general situation.

Are you under the impression that you are on a path to grasp something, which was not yet seen clearly?