Guide request - forgetmenot

[Nunes]

Morning Kay!!

Yes! Yes and Yes! There is nothing that I want more in life than seeing what is! I mean that!

But at the same time I have to be honest when I am not clear so that these doubts go away once and for all! I know I have to LOOK for this to happen!

I am ready

all my Love
CLaudia

[forgetmenot]

Okay....so put aside what you think you want and what you think you know and everything else...and just be here with an open willingness to LOOK diligently with curiosity to what is being pointed at. If you are not sure what I am pointing to...just say so and I will find another way to point. There is no time frame for things to happen...realisations happen when they happen and becoming frustrated, wanting to jump the gun isn't going to make it happen any sooner. Careful LOOKING is they key.

‘Looking’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual down to the actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

So...we will go back to square one and start again. We go back to LOOK at what actual experience actually is. I only want you to focus on becoming aware of actual experience....nothing else. It doesn't matter if you think you already know this...put that aside and just LOOK. Take your time and LOOK.

So throughout your day, label daily actitivies SIMPLY colour, sound, smell, taste, sensation or thought. So do this when you are making breakfast, eating lunch, putting your shoes on, brushing your hair, typing on the keyboard, watching TV, cooking dinner... just simply notice actual experience. H

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

The colour labelled 'cup' simply= colour
The smell labelled 'coffee', simply = smell,
The sensation labelled 'warmth' (of the coffee cup), simply = sensation.
The taste labelled 'coffee', simply = taste
The sound labelled 'tinkling' (spoon stirring the coffee), simply = sound
Thoughts ABOUT cup, coffee, spoon, making a cup of coffee and drinking the coffee etc, simply = thought.

Here is a suggestion on how to go about your day and taking absolutely EVERYTHING at face value.

You're in the kitchen and you hear a song playing from the other room. Of course, it’s only thought that says that, isn't it? So take that thought for face value. Then look again, that song isn't coming from anywhere is it? In fact, it is not a song at all, is it? Only thought says it’s a song. In reality it’s just sound. So, stick with that, discard everything that isn't obvious and apparent.

When sitting in a café enjoying a coffee. Do the same. Look around and thought will say that you are looking at other people drinking coffee. But that is only thought that says that, isn’t it? So take the thought at face value ie as the AE of thought only. LOOK again. What thought points to as people, are in fact not people at all, but colour.

At work you are getting anxious because you aren’t able to meet a deadline. But that is only thought that says that, isn’t it? But LOOK again. What thought points to as a person at work getting anxious is in fact, sensation.

Do the same with smell and taste. This will help in breaking down what SEEMS to be happening into what actually IS.

So do these exercises for a couple of days and let me know what you notice. Do not add/ask any questions about anything else. Simply notice actual experience (AE) and tell me what you noticed, and if you have any questions about AE, then those questions you may ask.

Love, Kay
xx

[Nunes]

Hi Kay,

I am already on it :)
I am just posting to Thank you again! What you are doing for me I will never forget! I mean it!
Your help is invaluable!

Thank you

P.S- speak again in a couple of days.

[forgetmenot]

Hey Claudia,

Love the enthusiasm! I am here for as long as you LOOK and continue to LOOK, but if LOOKING isn't happening then the exploration stops of its own accord, because the dialogue just goes round in circles.

Enjoy the exercises!

Love, Kay
xx

[Nunes]

Hi Kay,

Hope to find you well.

So, since our last talk I have been paying attention to colour,sound,taste,smell,thought ( at face value),sensation.

I am just going to give you a description of what I have been doing regarding AE.

At the beginning, I would look at it, anything, and go " This is thought", "This is colour", "This is Smell".. after a short period, Ive noticed that I was still distancing myself from the actual experience. I was still kind of labeling experiences with thought.

Then it occurred to me, wait...! The only thing I really know IS colour,sound,taste,smell,thought.. and not the other way around. As I see this laptop. I dont see a laptop first and then colour. No. It is ONLY colour. As a hear a song, it is ONLY sound.

To help me even further, I've remembered what you said relating to: is there a line between "sound" and "knowing" of sound.. then straight away.. no, only knowingsound.

The trickier part for me (still) is seeing thought AS thought! I have read, and re read our chats relating to thoughts.. over and over. I find that if I apply the same technique it is easier to see it too. As a thought happens, instead of indulging the thought, be aware that there is no line between thought and knowing of the thought. It is only knowingthought. There is no time when thought is not present. But because I am only the awareness of the thought, I AM with or without thought.

Kay would you agree that it requires attention and diligence to see thought AS thought? or is it just me!!!
Seeing thought at face value like you said.. still inquiring into that.

I am not the thinker of thought because there is no dividing line between thought and the knowing of it. So there is no thinker. There is No me AND Thought. It is only knowingthought.

There is only thought appearing, as a sound or colour appears.
Somehow for me it is easier to see the sound,taste,smell,sensation for what it is, rather than Thought for what it is.


Ok.. this is me then.

Thank you Kay
Love
Claudia

[forgetmenot]

Hi Claudia,

What a wonderful post to read! You have done some great LOOKING.

Then it occurred to me, wait...! The only thing I really know IS colour,sound,taste,smell,thought.. and not the other way around. As I see this laptop. I dont see a laptop first and then colour. No. It is ONLY colour. As a hear a song, it is ONLY sound.

YES! Nice! (doing a snoopy dance!!) What is known is soundcolourtastesmellsensationthought. It is only an appearing thought that points to this and then labels colour as ‘laptop’, or sound as ‘song’ or thought as ‘thought.

To help me even further, I've remembered what you said relating to: is there a line between "sound" and "knowing" of sound.. then straight away.. no, only knowingsound.

Great! Now ignore the LABEL ‘sound’ and all that is there is what is ‘known’ (sound, colour, smell, thought, sensation, taste are known. But it is only thought that categories experience itself with labels). So there is only the ‘knowingknown’ aka THIS.

The trickier part for me (still) is seeing thought AS thought! I have read, and re read our chats relating to thoughts.. over and over. I find that if I apply the same technique it is easier to see it too. As a thought happens, instead of indulging the thought, be aware that there is no line between thought and knowing of the thought. It is only knowingthought. There is no time when thought is not present. But because I am only the awareness of the thought, I AM with or without thought.

There is no I AM AND thought. That is separation. Where is the dividing line between ‘knowing’ (experience/THIS/I AM) and the ‘known’ (thought)?

Gold (I AM) SEEMS to appear in many forms, ie rings, (thoughts) ingots, (sound) bracelets, (sensation) earrings, (taste) nuggets (smell), necklaces (colour). Does the form make the gold or the gold is the form? In other words can a ring or bracelet etc appear on its own without the gold? Does the gold become something else just because it seems to appear as a ring, or a necklace or an ingot etc? Or the gold remains as gold no matter what it appears as?

Kay would you agree that it requires attention and diligence to see thought AS thought? or is it just me!!! Seeing thought at face value like you said.. still inquiring into that.

It does take time to just observe thought and see thought as thought. In other words to see that the content of thought is just further thought.

So, here is a good exercise to do. Do it for several days and just begin to notice thought.

Sit for 5-10 minutes, once in the morning and once at night. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts by just letting whatever thoughts cross your mind come into awareness, each to be noticed for a moment, and then replaced by the next. Try not to establish any kind of hierarchy among them. Watch them come and go as dispassionately as possible. Don't focus on any one in particular, but try to let the stream move on evenly and calmly, without any special investment on your part. If you find that you have ‘followed’ a thought and seem to no longer to be just aware of thought…just notice that as just being thought as well.
Let me know how you go.

I am not the thinker of thought because there is no dividing line between thought and the knowing of it. So there is no thinker. There is No me AND Thought. It is only knowingthought.

It is only knowingknown. So, let’s have a closer look at what thought is…ie what is thought made up of.

I want you to really look at thought. Does thought have a voice? Does thought have sound? Does thought have an image? Does thought have a sensation? Does thought have a taste? Does thought have a smell? Can you describe a thought?


Love, Kay
xx

[Nunes]

Hi Kay,

I'm not sure if to want me answer today or do the exercises for a few days an then reply.

By the way there is something I wanted to get out of my chest first. If you don't mind!

Today as I was in work, I could see certain sentences on the walls. King of describing the business objectives etc. As I looked deeper and based on our conversations, I was looking at colour. Those words are colour but at the same time they also describe something , as in a meaning that we can all agree on.
As I read "objectives" I know what I means, you know what it means . So you are saying this is an illusion?

As I responded to an email, all there was , was sound, colour.. But those words are not just colour, there is a meaning behind them. Is this also an illusion?

I don't get this? If nothing has real meaning what is the point of anything?

I could just not speak anymore because all there is is sound. But even if I say to another person " I am not speaking" although it is just sound, the other person knows what I am saying! How is that an illusion? How does the content of thought stands in all this?

[forgetmenot]

Hi Claudia, I know you have questions...but you will just have to trust that as you go along with this exploration and that you just LOOK that those questions will be answered... not by me, but by you LOOKING and seeing the answer for yourself.

Kay

[Nunes]

Hi Kay,

I know you have questions...but you will just have to trust that as you go along with this exploration and that you just LOOK that those questions will be answered... not by me, but by you LOOKING and seeing the answer for yourself.

yes, I accept this.

There is no I AM AND thought. That is separation. Where is the dividing line between ‘knowing’ (experience/THIS/I AM) and the ‘known’ (thought)?

thanks for pointing this again =) yes, I see it.

Gold (I AM) SEEMS to appear in many forms, ie rings, (thoughts) ingots, (sound) bracelets, (sensation) earrings, (taste) nuggets (smell), necklaces (colour). Does the form make the gold or the gold is the form? In other words can a ring or bracelet etc appear on its own without the gold? Does the gold become something else just because it seems to appear as a ring, or a necklace or an ingot etc? Or the gold remains as gold no matter what it appears as?

The gold (IAM) is the form. No, no ring or bracelet can appear on its own without the gold. The gold does not change. Forms apparently change but when investigated are only gold again.

Sit for 5-10 minutes, once in the morning and once at night. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts by just letting whatever thoughts cross your mind come into awareness, each to be noticed for a moment, and then replaced by the next. Try not to establish any kind of hierarchy among them. Watch them come and go as dispassionately as possible. Don't focus on any one in particular, but try to let the stream move on evenly and calmly, without any special investment on your part. If you find that you have ‘followed’ a thought and seem to no longer to be just aware of thought…just notice that as just being thought as well.

Kay this is not an easy exercise for me and I fear that I am not doing the exercise properly as I may be adding more thought to what is actually happening.
As I sit, to be aware of the thoughts, straight away there is a thought ( I am aware of thoughts). Also, thoughts never seem to be about the "present", which makes the separation appear to be real. I can be with my eyes opened and as this happens the only thing REAL is colours, but STILL what seems to be more "REAL" is what thought is saying instead of the colours (reality).
Any advice here? is there anything I am not seeing? or overlooking?

I want you to really look at thought. Does thought have a voice?

No. thought in itself does not have a voice. If it hears a sound it might comment on it. Again, Sound is Real, Thought is fiction.

Does thought have sound?

No. Thought in itself does not have a sound. It can comment on a sound. Sound is real. It happens as it happens on its own. Sound is real, thought about the sound is fiction. Ok, one thing I have noticed now. Thought is still AE, as well as the sound. What has more reality sound or thought? what is real here? both are real? well the sound is real 100%. The thought is real also, as in it is AE but its content is not real, is only thought again.

Does thought have an image?

No. thought has no image, or colour.

Does thought have a sensation?

No, Thought is empty.

Does thought have a taste?

In itself thought does not have a taste. It is empty.

Does thought have a smell?

as as above.

Can you describe a thought?

Thought in itself is empty. Even its content is empty as it only leads to further thought. Thought adds content to sound,colour,taste,sensation, making it seem something else than what it is. It tries to give meaning to things. It adds stories about these, but it is only mentally. It also seems to add these stories automatically, without any control on my part. This is the best I can give for now Kay.

Thank you my dear
Love
Claudia

[forgetmenot]

Hello Claudia,

I asked you several times if you went back and reread our exploration from the beginning and each time you did not answer and I let it slide. But from what I am reading here, I can see you did not. So please go back and read your thread from the beginning to now please. And read it thoroughly.

The gold (I AM) is the form. No, no ring or bracelet can appear on its own without the gold. The gold does not change. Forms apparently change but when investigated are only gold again.

Yes and you haven’t seen what I am pointing to here at all. I am not just throwing in a gold analogy for the fun of it...I am pointing with it so you connect the dots. You are seeing that yes, gold remains gold no matter what form it takes but then you aren't applying it to actual experience which is the I AM, as you like to call it.

Gold has no form, but appears as many forms, but it still remains as gold. So ‘gold’ is the knowing and the bracelets, rings, necklaces are the known. So now apply that to actual experience! The “knowing” aka THIS (I AM) appears as the “known” (sound, smell, thought, taste, sensation, colour), so there is no “knowing” AND “known”…they are one and the same = knowingknown.

Kay this is not an easy exercise for me and I fear that I am not doing the exercise properly as I may be adding more thought to what is actually happening.

How are you adding more thought? Describe to me in detail how you are adding more thoughts. The thoughts that you say you are adding are just appearing thoughts, as is the thought “I may be adding more thought”. They are all just thoughts that are appearing but seem to directed at the exercise.

As I sit, to be aware of the thoughts, straight away there is a thought ( I am aware of thoughts). Also, thoughts never seem to be about the "present", which makes the separation appear to be real. I can be with my eyes opened and as this happens the only thing REAL is colours, but STILL what seems to be more "REAL" is what thought is saying instead of the colours (reality). Any advice here? is there anything I am not seeing? or overlooking?

And this is an expectation. That the labels and thought stories about colour will just disappear and all you will be aware of is colour! THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A SEPARATE SELF, not now, not yesterday, not now reading this….so why would thoughts about actual experience change or stop?
If you stop and LOOK at whatever the so called object is…you then see that all that is there is colour and thoughts about the colour. What else are you expecting?

Can you see that expectations are also just EMPTY THOUGHTS. Thought doesn't stop telling you that it's your car, your job, your body, your craving, your preference, your pain, your happiness, your this and your that. Why would thought stop saying something just because it's seen what thoughts are. It's never been any other way. So it is only an EXPECTATION that thought will suddenly change its tune or stop completely.

You did the sports exercise, where you watched a soccer game with and without sound and with that exercise I asked if you noticed that thought never comments on the present…it only ever comments on what has already happened…or what may or may not happen in the future. So why are you surprised now that thoughts don’t comment about what is happening right at this very moment?

I want you to really look at thought. Does thought have a voice?

No. thought in itself does not have a voice. If it hears a sound it might comment on it. Again, Sound is Real, Thought is fiction.

How does thought hear sound? Thought is not aware, it knows nothing, it is not an entity! The only thing that says thought knows something, is another appearing thought! It is an appearance that comes and goes just as is colour, sound, smell, taste etc. If thoughts were expressed via the tweeting of birds or an unknown language, how would you know what they meant? What meaning is given to thoughts are only just thoughts about thoughts.

Does thought have sound?

No. Thought in itself does not have a sound. It can comment on a sound. Sound is real. It happens as it happens on its own. Sound is real, thought about the sound is fiction. Ok, one thing I have noticed now. Thought is still AE, as well as the sound. What has more reality sound or thought? what is real here? both are real? well the sound is real 100%. The thought is real also, as in it is AE but its content is not real,
is only thought again.

Yes…thoughtsound are an appearance in/as THIS. One is not more real than the other, they are simply appearances that come and go. Go back to the gold analogy. Does a bracelet have more value and meaning to a necklace?

Can you describe a thought?

Thought in itself is empty. Even its content is empty as it only leads to further thought. Thought adds content to sound,colour,taste,sensation, making it seem something else than what it is. It tries to give meaning to things. It adds stories about these, but it is only mentally. It also seems to add these stories automatically, without any control on my part. This is the best I can give for now Kay.

Are you just parroting this, Claudia? How can you say that thought is empty itself and yet you are still telling me that because thought says “I can be with my eyes opened and as this happens the only thing REAL is colours, but STILL what seems to be more "REAL" is what thought is saying instead of the colours (reality)” and not see that that is just an empty thought appearing about actual experience labelled 'colour'?

Love, Kay
xx

[Nunes]

HI Kay,

Just to let you know that I am reading our chats over and over, and I am also doing the exercises.

I am taking my time with these if that's ok.

Love
CLaudia

[forgetmenot]

That is more than okay...that is wonderful! Let me know when you are ready to continue.

Love, Kay
xx