Ok
Re: Ok
Well Yes, that's true. I really don't have Any answer if this wolrd where I'm living is 'true or not'. There are colours that are true, And forms And objects we use like car etc. But in now monent I can only say that stillnes in that moment is only thing 'real'. Maby I'm confused or then just mixing things..isin' this life/world only for life to experience itself?
Re: Ok
Maybe, but how can we know that? How do we know it's not just another seducing tale?Maby I'm confused or then just mixing things..isin' this life/world only for life to experience itself?
How can we know anything except by applying DE?
Is there a "higher awareness" in DE? Is there any "life experiencing itself" in DE? Is there anything going on in DE except this stillness as you very well put it?
Also I take it that by "true" you mean "reality" because otherwise you'd have a problem because what is there in this plane that can be labelled as "true"?
All these concepts you're using, they are useful in day-to-day life when interacting with others for instance. Try not to fall in their trap though and let your thoughts start weaving stories again, because then you're back where you left.
Re: Ok
It is this simple, and when it stops being simple, that might be a red flag that you stepped in the realm of the mind.is reality really so simple
Anyway, you'll get used to it in time :)
In the end, I have 6 final questions. They encompass pretty much everything we talked about so some things might repeat themselves.
Take as much time as you need. I will also ask the other guides to have a look, see if there's anything we missed talking about.
Afterwards if you like, you can join our aftercare groups on Facebook, for further inquiry or just for a chat.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Re: Ok
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No there is no separate self/me/I in any way shape or form. Never was.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
My own experience is, that everything happens to me, all the suffering/drama is really happening to me or because I did something wrong in this/past life. This started when I was perhaps 2-3 years old..I really thought that I am responsible for everybody else feelings too and my behavior is causing suffering to everybody else.
Now I see it´s impossible for me to be responsible for everybody feelings. It´s only feeling in my body that I need to allow to be and cut the story my mind is producing randomly that there is any me things are happening to.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
Re leafing. I don´t have to think that thoughts my min is creating are real. Actually I have discovered that it´s only absorbing that we need, `thinking´ is not needed at the way it´s used in now day life.
At the same time I have been experiencing all the drama/feelings that I thought I already deal with earlier. Pressure, tears, re leafing, etc. all this feelings in my body are coming up, my mind tries to stick in to its old habits. Perhaps feelings just came now to be noticed. Now I can leave the mind story from this feelings behind.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Drama of happiness I experienced really tricky. Everybody told me that just be happy etc..not to think the thoughts that are causing me sorrow, just find the good in everything. That sounded really odd that some people are experiencing life in this form happy, that only happy feeling are allowed. At the same time I was feeling sad and sorrow.
Suffering the I was causing me was to much..I realized that I was settling for little if I continued the way I was living.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Life itself makes things to happen. When I´m living in now moment life just happens and I can watch how it forms. There is no me who is doing this and that, choosing this or that. there is just life happening, living happening.
6) Anything to add?
I´m not sure I understood the fifth question correctly. Or the point for the question.
No there is no separate self/me/I in any way shape or form. Never was.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
My own experience is, that everything happens to me, all the suffering/drama is really happening to me or because I did something wrong in this/past life. This started when I was perhaps 2-3 years old..I really thought that I am responsible for everybody else feelings too and my behavior is causing suffering to everybody else.
Now I see it´s impossible for me to be responsible for everybody feelings. It´s only feeling in my body that I need to allow to be and cut the story my mind is producing randomly that there is any me things are happening to.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
Re leafing. I don´t have to think that thoughts my min is creating are real. Actually I have discovered that it´s only absorbing that we need, `thinking´ is not needed at the way it´s used in now day life.
At the same time I have been experiencing all the drama/feelings that I thought I already deal with earlier. Pressure, tears, re leafing, etc. all this feelings in my body are coming up, my mind tries to stick in to its old habits. Perhaps feelings just came now to be noticed. Now I can leave the mind story from this feelings behind.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Drama of happiness I experienced really tricky. Everybody told me that just be happy etc..not to think the thoughts that are causing me sorrow, just find the good in everything. That sounded really odd that some people are experiencing life in this form happy, that only happy feeling are allowed. At the same time I was feeling sad and sorrow.
Suffering the I was causing me was to much..I realized that I was settling for little if I continued the way I was living.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Life itself makes things to happen. When I´m living in now moment life just happens and I can watch how it forms. There is no me who is doing this and that, choosing this or that. there is just life happening, living happening.
6) Anything to add?
I´m not sure I understood the fifth question correctly. Or the point for the question.
Re: Ok
Is this "cutting the story" something happening naturally or do you have to force it somehow?It´s only feeling in my body that I need to allow to be and cut the story my mind is producing randomly that there is any me things are happening to.
I ask because "cut" sounds a bit forceful, like there is "somebody" in there who doesn't want or is afraid that the stories are going to take over again.
Are stories anything more than just words and images? Can they do harm?
The question was more specific and it was regarding the actual shift, the change from being engrossed in the "I" to seeing it's an illusion, an unquestioned belief.Drama of happiness I experienced really tricky. Everybody told me that just be happy etc..not to think the thoughts that are causing me sorrow, just find the good in everything. That sounded really odd that some people are experiencing life in this form happy, that only happy feeling are allowed. At the same time I was feeling sad and sorrow.4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Suffering the I was causing me was to much..I realized that I was settling for little if I continued the way I was living.
When and how did that shift happen?
Because if there was no shift, if nothing changed, then how does one know it's actual "seeing" and not an intellectual conclusion?
Hope that makes sense.
Your explanation was very good actually, just a bit incomplete.Life itself makes things to happen. When I´m living in now moment life just happens and I can watch how it forms. There is no me who is doing this and that, choosing this or that. there is just life happening, living happening.5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
I´m not sure I understood the fifth question correctly. Or the point for the question.
So life happens, no chooser. Do you feel responsible for anything, as in is there anything you're supposed to do? Like, do you have a duty to do this or that, to be this or that?
Is there still a feeling somewhere that you can "intend" things to happen a certain way?
Re: Ok
Is this "cutting the story" something happening naturally or do you have to force it somehow?
I ask because "cut" sounds a bit forceful, like there is "somebody" in there who doesn't want or is afraid that the stories are going to take over again.
By cutting, I mean `calming´ my self. So I´m able to see things from `now´ moment.
The question was more specific and it was regarding the actual shift, the change from being engrossed in the "I" to seeing it's an illusion, an unquestioned belief.
When and how did that shift happen?
Because if there was no shift, if nothing changed, then how does one know it's actual "seeing" and not an intellectual conclusion?
That was at the beginning of our conversation:
Hope that makes sense.
Are stories anything more than just words and images? Can they do harm?Ok, let's try something simple. Can you create/pick a thought right now? Calm down, clear your head and then try to create/pick a thought.
If you can there should be some steps involved just like when making an omelette.
I realized that when I calm down and clear my head, see the `now´ moment, that there really is no me.
Do you feel responsible for anything, as in is there anything you're supposed to do? Like, do you have a duty to do this or that, to be this or that?
This for me is a tricky one. I mean, when I take care for `my´ little girls, it comes very naturally, no forcing, only taking care happening. But when I go to work for example, I have to tell my body to do that/go to the office to make money to family, still, it do not feel bad/good/anything, only going to work happening but still have to tell body to do that.
Is there still a feeling somewhere that you can "intend" things to happen a certain way?
Sometimes yes, when I´m not in now moment. `I´ really wants to be in management position. In now moment, everything is easy, life just happens throw this form of creature we call body.
I ask because "cut" sounds a bit forceful, like there is "somebody" in there who doesn't want or is afraid that the stories are going to take over again.
By cutting, I mean `calming´ my self. So I´m able to see things from `now´ moment.
The question was more specific and it was regarding the actual shift, the change from being engrossed in the "I" to seeing it's an illusion, an unquestioned belief.
When and how did that shift happen?
Because if there was no shift, if nothing changed, then how does one know it's actual "seeing" and not an intellectual conclusion?
That was at the beginning of our conversation:
Hope that makes sense.
Are stories anything more than just words and images? Can they do harm?Ok, let's try something simple. Can you create/pick a thought right now? Calm down, clear your head and then try to create/pick a thought.
If you can there should be some steps involved just like when making an omelette.
I realized that when I calm down and clear my head, see the `now´ moment, that there really is no me.
Do you feel responsible for anything, as in is there anything you're supposed to do? Like, do you have a duty to do this or that, to be this or that?
This for me is a tricky one. I mean, when I take care for `my´ little girls, it comes very naturally, no forcing, only taking care happening. But when I go to work for example, I have to tell my body to do that/go to the office to make money to family, still, it do not feel bad/good/anything, only going to work happening but still have to tell body to do that.
Is there still a feeling somewhere that you can "intend" things to happen a certain way?
Sometimes yes, when I´m not in now moment. `I´ really wants to be in management position. In now moment, everything is easy, life just happens throw this form of creature we call body.
Re: Ok
Not sure I understand. Do you control the body? How do you make the body do something?But when I go to work for example, I have to tell my body to do that/go to the office to make money to family, still, it do not feel bad/good/anything, only going to work happening but still have to tell body to do that.
Re: Ok
Here's a question from a fellow guide:
When you are not in the here/now, then where are you? Where do you go/do to not be in the here/now? And when you are not in the here/now what does it look like to make it look and seem different to the here/now?
When you are not in the here/now, then where are you? Where do you go/do to not be in the here/now? And when you are not in the here/now what does it look like to make it look and seem different to the here/now?
Re: Ok
When you are not in the here/now, then where are you? Where do you go/do to not be in the here/now? And when you are not in the here/now what does it look like to make it look and seem different to the here/now?
It is illusion my mind is creating. Offen I need to calm myself before I can really feel that there is no I. I get restless in body And my mind start to tell me that I need to worry aboute something like money,job,feeling lonely. Just label and story I have given to some feeling in this body.
Re: Ok
Hi
Here's some feedback from me. I presented this thread to the other guides, and when I say "guide" i mean people who have been confirmed themselves and some even have heavy background in guiding people to see through the illusion of the self. The general consensus is that you still have some work to do.
When you say things like: "My mind tells me to worry about money, job, loneliness", it feels like being in "direct experience" is just a fleeting moment for you and you're very much ruled by your mind still.
Not sure how to say this: You don't seem to have acquired that freedom that people who have seen through the illusion have. You're still very much caught in the rat race the mind is surrounding us.
Usually, when seeing happens, there are some heavy changes happening as well, not in what happens in life, but in how we RELATE to it. For instance, you shouldn't feel lonely because there is NOBODY there any more to need another PERSON. I mean, there might still be desires as for instance to be with another person, but going that far away as to actually feel lonely is a red flag. Does that make sense?
So maybe we should get back to talking about stuff that represents a problem for you and dismantle all these resistances that create a barrier in front of your "seeing".
Would that be ok with you?
Here's some feedback from me. I presented this thread to the other guides, and when I say "guide" i mean people who have been confirmed themselves and some even have heavy background in guiding people to see through the illusion of the self. The general consensus is that you still have some work to do.
When you say things like: "My mind tells me to worry about money, job, loneliness", it feels like being in "direct experience" is just a fleeting moment for you and you're very much ruled by your mind still.
Not sure how to say this: You don't seem to have acquired that freedom that people who have seen through the illusion have. You're still very much caught in the rat race the mind is surrounding us.
Usually, when seeing happens, there are some heavy changes happening as well, not in what happens in life, but in how we RELATE to it. For instance, you shouldn't feel lonely because there is NOBODY there any more to need another PERSON. I mean, there might still be desires as for instance to be with another person, but going that far away as to actually feel lonely is a red flag. Does that make sense?
So maybe we should get back to talking about stuff that represents a problem for you and dismantle all these resistances that create a barrier in front of your "seeing".
Would that be ok with you?
Re: Ok
Yes, when some feeling comes, I realise that it's just story my mind has created And I have been experiencing that there is no me that this is happening to, still I would lie to say my mind is not reacting And it is telling stories. Also feelings in this body are presence. Still there is no me to believing them, reaction in body Yes. For my experience it's a step And life is different, but if I really have to tell if I have seen throw the gate or not, perhaps then not.Not sure how to say this: You don't seem to have acquired that freedom that people who have seen through the illusion have. You're still very much caught in the rat race the mind is surrounding us.
Like for you saying "that Perhaps I havent' still seen" I have a reaction in my body, pressure in throat area, feelings coming but releafe that I don't have to beleave their story. Confused again:)
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