All your experiences are but a manifestation of mind.

[Lin]

Hi Ratnapani

Can you please explain the best as you can, in your own words, what you do, when you want to check what is here, that lets you know you are looking instead of thinking?

I relax and listen inwardly, to my body. Breath out, and become aware of all kinds of sensations in my body. I try to "listen" to what is there, moment by moment. I become aware of thinking, emotions feelings and sensations. Chest rising and falling, and so on. I just look at what arises and dissolves, without judging or putting names on what is happening. That makes me grounded and aware. Sometimes if I investigate and ask a question, and then I look, listen or just wait for the answer.

What do you see, at this very moment, right now, when you are looking at what is here ?

I see my bodily sensations happening. Vision- shapes and colours. Sounds- all kinds of sounds. I sense my chest and abdomen moving. Tingling, pulsation, vibrations, a pitch-tone, thoughts coming and going. Different sensations of warmth and coldness. Burning sensations under the feet, and so on. All of that happens by itself. I hear or sense my heart beat. A whole range of sensations, arising and falling away. That is what I see.

Kindly
Lin

[Lin]

Again
All 'I' has invisible quotation-marks around them. Because there is no 'I' it is just actions and sensation happening.
:)
Lin

[ratnapani]

Hi Lin,
Thank you.
I'll tell the other guide you have responded.

Goodnight for tonight.
Ratnapani

[ratnapani]

Hi Lin,
I've got another question for you.

"What was it like experiencing an 'I', and what is different with no 'I' being there any longer? Please describe your experience and speak from your heart. Thank you. :-) "

Thorough is good. No hurry.
All the best
Ratnapani.

[Lin]

Hi Ratnapani
Let's see if I can describe this difference.

"What was it like experiencing an 'I', and what is different with no 'I' being there any longer? Please describe your experience and speak from your heart. Thank you. :-) "

The loss of importance.

It has been a gradual seeing. Step by step I have gotten closer to braking the illusion. Joining LU helped me with the 'seeing through' part.

Since the knowledge about anatta was already there, it isn't that big difference between before and after. It is more of a subtle feeling or knowing or a shift if interest, after I've seen.

How do you describe the feeling you get when you 'loose' something? Your mind keeps looking for it even though you know it is gone. And then there is acceptance of the loss.
The first days after I saw that the 'I' wasn't attachable to anything, I kind of had that feeling. There was insight about no-'I', but the habitual 'I' was (is) still there. But I don't trust the illusion anymore. It has lost its importance.

Before, when I believed that 'I' was the one thinking thoughts, it most of the time felt rather tense, like 'I' was in 'my face' or in 'my head' all the time. I'd pay a lot more attention and trust to 'my' thoughts before than 'I' do now. That is a bit of a relief.

Before, thoughts and events happened to 'Me' and became personal. Now, when I have seen that 'I' also is a thought, and that 'I' is just a concept, I gradually become more grounded in my body and its sensations. And it actually feels more quiet in my head. There is no separation between "Me' and the body' anymore and that feels calmer and also more spacious.

All the best :)
Lin

[Lin]

One more thing. Every sense experience, from thoughts to birds singing are on the same level of awareness. Just wanted to share that as well. Before it was me hearing the birds sing. Now, its is being aware of the birds.
All the best
Lin

[Lin]

Never mind, the same level, it is just awareness
:)
Lin

[ratnapani]

Hi Lin,

I really like 'the loss of importance.' And yes, It is relaxing isn't it when thought loosens it's grip.
All this will settle in quite naturally.

I'd like to follow up on one thing if that's ok.

.

But I don't trust the illusion anymore.

Can you say under what sort of conditions the illusion comes up.
And where an everyday sense of 'I Caroline ' is felt in the body and how that feels.

This one might take some 'looking' - can you say from direct experience where a sense of this is 'me Caroline' comes from?

Your latest just came through 'Never mind, the same level, it is just awareness' -- Yes !
Best Wishes,
Ratnapani.

[Lin]

Hi Ratnapani

But I don't trust the illusion anymore.
Can you say under what sort of conditions the illusion comes up.

* Well it isn't actually a believed illusion, but habitually, it sort of looks the same. When speaking and interacting with people. I use the word 'I' a lot. There is habits of muscular memory, voice and other senses. Of course, even if I had the experience of no-self and just awareness. The habits won't change over night. This is the first steps on the path of breaking the ten fetters.

And where an everyday sense of 'I Caroline ' is felt in the body and how that feels.

* the 'everyday Caroline' is a thought and a habit. Therefore it comes together with other thoughts as well as with sense-memory. It is in a way disturbing but I know it will stay there and I have to accept that as the thought and memory-experience it is.

This one might take some 'looking' - can you say from direct experience where a sense of this is 'me Caroline' comes from?

Did I cover this in the answer above? Or could you develop a bit?
All the best
Lin

[Lin]

Hi Ratnapani.
I just want to post something today. And this is it. I have been traveling all day so tiredness happens at the moment.
See you later.

Caroline

[ratnapani]

Hi Lin,

Thank you for letting me know.
I wrote something today but must have made a mistake in posting since it has not appeared.
I will try again tomorrow morning.
All the best, Ratnapani

[ratnapani]

Hi lin,

I decided to write tonight.

Thanks for your answers.
This is indeed the first step on the path and I'd like to look into thought and sensation more with you.
There is still the thought I as you say and that's just fine but worth exploring.

Thought usually comes with sensations and I ask you to look for those connected to the "i" thought in this exercise.

Sit quietly for a while until there is calm.
Then repeat your name slowly over and over for a while. Let any thoughts go- just repeating.
After 'a time' - look inside

Is this like an 'I' appearing ?
What sensations are noticed in connection with the repetition.

That's it. Inquiry into the connection of sensation and thought goes on being useful for a long time !

All the best,
Ratnapani.

[Lin]

Hi Ratnapani

Sit quietly for a while until there is calm.
Then repeat your name slowly over and over for a while. Let any thoughts go- just repeating.
After 'a time' - look inside

What sensations are noticed in connection with the repetition.

Firstly, this might have an effect on the outcome of the exercise, I have never really identified with my name. It sounds really awkward when I say it. Like I'm saying someone else's name. But here cames the result from the exercise:

Name exercise: First time:
While repeating the name, slowly, several times. Associations with people using the name a lot. A bit of restlessness and distractions happened. Started singing a tone. The lyrics says at one point 'people call my name'.
The word attitude came up. Attitude as in body-language. As in tensions

Second time:
Not much happened while saying the name. Not much happened afterwords, while looking either.

Then I started to look for sensations that might be associated with 'I' or 'me'. Something 'familiar' behind my eyes. Looking closer to really see and find nothing there except som muscular tensions. I keep on examine every familiar sensations that I can find that I recognise as being associated with the 'I' but it's nothing there but bodily sensations. Maybe all of them together with thoughts and muscular memories, habitually builds up that what we use to call self. There isn't a'I' appearing in the recognition of the muscular sensation/tensions behind my eyes.

Is this like an 'I' appearing ?

No, It doesn't seem to happen. The difference in my experience no and before is that there doesn't seem to be a 'Me' center anymore. I don't really know if that 'I' would have appeared before either.

All the best
Lin

[ratnapani]

Hi Lin,

That's great stuff.

. I keep on examine every familiar sensations that I can find that I recognise as being associated with the 'I' but it's nothing there but bodily sensations

(:

Do you have any questions ?

If not, the next step is to register this dialogue as complete on LU and there are groups you might be interested in as follow up.
I find LU Aftercare group helpful for instance.

I hope you enjoy the rest of the holiday.
All the best,
Ratnapani.

[Lin]

Hi Ratnapani
:)
That would be great. Thanks a million times.
How and where do I find these groups?
All the best
Caroline