Freedom is

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Multipass
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Freedom is

Postby Multipass » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:49 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Conciousness experiencing itself without any owner or doer called I, me, self.
I read the Gateless... and the seeing happened.

What are you looking for at LU?
To make sure the seeing was complete and deep enough, since there have been all kinds of labelling and falling away from it. Doubts and the meness seems to be hanging on so tightly. Also support after sure seeing.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To guide with the right focus, since my mind is so busy creating disturbing stories. Easier to stay in the right topic with someone to point. I want direct cutting off, if I flip to the intellectual thinking. I really want this to be done once and for all.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have a history in following a teacher for 8,5 years. In April this year I found it was not what it was supposed to be. Quite rough past two years with manipulation, energy control and hypnosis that I could not see when inside the system. The main thing is to release the illusion and end the pain. To become free.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?:
10
With warm hugs
Multipass

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom is

Postby Ilona » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:04 pm

Hi Multipass, welcome to LU forum! Glad you made it here.
We can have a chat and see what transpires. All I ask of you is to write from your own experience, not from what you have learned from someone else. So so philosophy, but pure description of what you see.

Multipass sounds very fith elementy :) I love that movie.

So what doubts are coming up and what are you looking for?

Kind regards
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Multipass
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Re: Freedom is

Postby Multipass » Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:48 pm

Hi there and thank you for the quick reply ❤️

The doubts are thoughts of "is this really so" or am I hallusinating. And the question "Who is doing the looking?" arrises.

When I saw this while reading the book, it was so clear for two days. But the physical communication whit people and doings seems to swollow the state and loos the clearity all the time.
It is very wavy from seeing clearly moments, to chaos in the mind.

There seems to be an expectation of everything solving out quickly. And I notice there is also a hope to get out of the fear mess that has isolated me from other peoples company.
I have been going to this direction for about 5 years, but the Gateless brought me to the missing, truly looking the self key.
I am very gratefull for that.

I have fased the fears for years and released plenty, but there is something still holding the me hanging there with a feeling of "nothing interests me and there is no reason to even start".
Everything feels more or less worthless. Also seeing everybody pretending and lying to themself and others rises feelings of irritation.

Long stoory but these seems to be the stucking points. Can you help please.
With warm hugs
Multipass

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Re: Freedom is

Postby Ilona » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:05 pm

Yes, the expectations still going to be there, but if you see them through they won't create friction.
The construction of a character built on the assumption of separate self has been going on for years, so don't expect all to collapse instantly. It is most likely to take years to deconstruct it. Patience is needed. And knowing that all is unfolding as it should in precisely perfect timing. It just can not be other than what is.

Can you look get a closer look at the fear, what is I protecting and from what excactly.
Can you look behind it and tell me what is there.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Multipass
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Re: Freedom is

Postby Multipass » Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:53 pm

Thank you.

"Can you look get a closer look at the fear, what is I protecting and from what excactly.
Can you look behind it and tell me what is there."

This is a tricky one. I have been looking many times, but found nothing more. Yesterday evening I was doing that, it seemed that the I is simply protecting the existance of it self. Fiear of emptyness, nothingness. It has a belief that everything of existance will vanish completely. The life itself.
Intellectually I know it is not so, but some unconcious resistance still is. So it is some kind of fear of the death, even the though of the death itself, don't arrise a feeling of fear.
Maby the jumping inside the black hole beneath all layers.

It just is kind of fear with no content. The mind just tries to attach it to some things. I continue looking for this.

Hugs.
With warm hugs
Multipass

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Re: Freedom is

Postby Ilona » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:00 pm

Fiear of emptyness, nothingness. It has a belief that everything of existence will vanish completely. The life itself.
oh really? Will existence vanish? is that true? does life need to be protected from itself?
look at a tree, is life happening to a tree or as a tree? and if you do not name that thing tree, does it disappear?

nothing real is going to vanish, it's only an old belief that drops. just like santa:
when kid realizes that santa is fiction, does santa disappear? what happens to santa? does the existence of santa get thretened?

same is with this i thingy, just like santa, it is fiction. so if it really is fiction, all that is going on still continues, with and without beief in the i- the manager of the universe.


the fear is here because you are looking at something that you have never looked at before. fear is a friend really, only trying to help. can you appreciate all the work that fear does? is fearing unknown helping or is it useless?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Freedom is

Postby Multipass » Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:39 pm

You put it very understandible way. All that has been realized. No more believing in santa.

the fear is here because you are looking at something that you have never looked at before. fear is a friend really, only trying to help. can you appreciate all the work that fear does? is fearing unknown helping or is it useless?
The feeling of fear has made itself very hard to appreciate. It is more the fear of the feeling it. The paralyzing state that it brings. But yes, it is helping and protecting. Though mostly it is protecting only from believed beliefs. It is protecting something that is not real in the first place. The "I" seems to try to cover the exeptance of the feeling of fear, and use it in it's own benefits. The hidden belief system is so quick in being the first to grab any thought or feeling to keep it going.

The conciousness is experiencing itsel through all existance and I am that every now and then. In that stage it is sure and nothing is missing. At the same time I see, hear or notice something it happens emotionally inside this body. No separation.

Hoing back to the previous one. I looked further to the thing that something takes the interest of willing to do something among people even there is no income and I defenately would need some.
It seems there is still the 'not trusting in myself, the 'I am not good enough to be able to create something' hanging on. The fear not to be exepted and fear of not succeed.
It is frustrating to run against this ower and ower again.

And yet the knowing allready is, that all this is just bunch of old believed thoughts. Everything feels like living in a dream and knowing it is only a dream. Still the dream can effect emotionally and stop the life floating freely.
Patience has never been my strongest abilities.
More surrendering to what is?
With warm hugs
Multipass

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Re: Freedom is

Postby Ilona » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:16 pm

More surrender to what is. That means ending of resistance to what is. That includes ending resistance to feeling.
This article may help to work with fear
http://markedeternal.blogspot.mx/2014/0 ... n.html?m=1

Having focus on the story, on the narration is living in a dream and missing all that is underneath thinking.
Can you see that mind works on creating images about possible problems and possible futures and that is what raises the sense of fear.
Here now, what is missing? Is anything incomplete?

Is there ever a time when it's not here now?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Freedom is

Postby Multipass » Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:31 am

Thank you for the link. It put me in to tears, since it described exactly what I have been doing. First trying to open the door with all possible methods and finally just sitting behind it waiting for it to open by itself. Thinking there is something that I have to discovere before I can move on.
The fear arised and I looked behind the door. There was absolutely nothing there. It was the same than here. So waiting for nothing. There will be no mind blowing super discoveries anywhere. This is it, here and now.
It gave a sensation of releasing the tension of needing to find something. A releaf.

I defenately notice the mind traveling to the past or to the future, creating all kinds of imaginary threaths. But all are just thoughts happening and has no truth in them. Only stoories of everything that has ever been senced or what might come.

I noticed also that everything experienced in this body life is driven by the conciousness (or what ever one want's to call it) itself through the body experience. There is defenately no me envolved. A sensation in the body gives a signal further to get the body to act as needed. For example if there is a feeling of thirst, the sensation of it makes the body to take all nesessary steps to fullfil the need. After drinking, it's done. No "me" needed to do that. Also there is no separate me to make decissions. The feelings through body through heart gets us to the point of choosing. No me owning this process exists.

I feel more clear now about the whole. The revealing by itself started few weeks ago, but this fear thing jumped on the way once again. Now I feel better how to look, when it appears.

I am very thankfull for your patience and sincere help.
When all this stabilizes I hope to be able to join the team to help others.

I am 51 and had a hell of a ride with creating all the protecting layers and self-image since I was under 1 years old. So it has required very hard hits from the life itself to get those broken.
Finally there is light on the other side of the tunnel.
The "I,me, self" will not be dragged along any longer.
No more keeping the imagining of the I alive. It takes all of the energy. Just stop imaginig it. This unit of the whole don't have any fictive owner any longer.

It is also interesting to just see, how all that has happened is explained in a new way without trying. The way that shows how everything has served to be able to get all this that I understand now. There is no me in any form, and has never been.

Is there any place where to continue discussing? This is not somethin one can't talk about with everyone. The progress is eternal I assume.

You are doing important work here to help people. What more could one want but get a real life. Warm hugs and love <3
With warm hugs
Multipass

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Re: Freedom is

Postby Ilona » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:57 pm

Thank you for honest reply. It's amazing to see how fear stops us and it's fear of nothing... it's great to hear that you could look behind it and see this!
No more keeping the imagining of the I alive. It takes all of the energy. Just stop imaginig it. This unit of the whole don't have any fictive owner any longer.
Aaaa! Yes, it sucks all the energy, for nothing. Hehe. Good work!

Mind created images are just that- images and nothing can happen to them. So many images! And nothing substantial. Images get replaced and nothing happens to the old ones. Nice to see that.

Ok, so what is that moves this body? What is that moves emotions, thoughts, sensations?
Is there a mover of totality?
Is conciousness the driver? Or driver is an appearance in consciousness?

Some questions for you to play with.
Looking forward to your observations.
Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Re: Freedom is

Postby Multipass » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:05 pm

Ok, so what is that moves this body? What is that moves emotions, thoughts, sensations?
Is there a mover of totality?
Is conciousness the driver? Or driver is an appearance in consciousness?
Tricky one again.
When I look, everything seems to be driven by itself.
It feels that the conciousness is, and everythin is included. Body, thoughts, emotions, sensations among everything else that appears to be, are co-operating but without any driver.

Everything is energy communicating or effecting everything that is. It feels that this body with it's senses is a unit that could be called an appearance in conciousness. So all that is, seems to be operating as they supposed to be. Without any stoories or explanations why. Only one. Energy reacts to energy and creates movement. So there is no moover. Mooving just happens.
It is like a wind. There is no one doing the blowing. It just blows and then it is more still again. All just coming and going on it's own. That goes with the feelings and thoughts and everythin. Coming and travelling through. The only reason that something appears to stay, is when the mind and self get's stucked to it.

No wonder that I ran in to this today. A good one:
https://youtu.be/Bw9zSMsKcwk

It feels now like floating in the sea. Not on the surface where the wind and waves can effect, but like in the depth's of the sea, where the waves do not effect at all. Peaceful being.
Something turned after the last nights realizing. From the fear link. All that seemed to be without content in this life, starts to feel different. New sensation to just be all that is.
Really hard to put in words.

Thank you again, and sending love and appriciation for you.
With warm hugs
Multipass

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom is

Postby Ilona » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:15 pm

Beautiful! Floating in the sea.. being.. sweeet

How is it going today?
Anything interesting that report?
What else looks different?
How other people appear now? Are there selves separate from life in their bodies?
Is there a difference in communications?

Much love your way
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Multipass
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Re: Freedom is

Postby Multipass » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:48 pm


How is it going today?
Anything interesting that report?
What else looks different?
How other people appear now? Are there selves separate from life in their bodies?
Is there a difference in communications?
It has been amazing.
All evening and most of the night, there was this softness, excepting, joy, peace, love and kind of enthusiasm ower nothing. Very pleasent feeling.
Like completely new way of seeing the life.
Everything sensed seems to be closer some how. No separate. All doing, thinking and everything just happening without any effort or the thoughts that 'I should, I must, I have to'.
It is like really seeing everythin for the first time :o No needs or ideas to change anything that is. Nothing to add or nothing to remove.

I had this kind of a fear for people. Today I went to dentist and notised that all the people there gave me no such a sensation at all. Almost like I was alone there. Or being all at the same time.
The woman that called me in, was in a bad mood, but it had no effect on me. Right words just came out, a little joking and in a moment she was very polite and smiling. I got straight in without waiting.
All just happening. No me doing.
I don't get the irritated feeling of people as easily.
And no 'selves' anywhere. Just bodying with characters wondering arround. No owners or no valuation of the qualities any longer.

Easy feeling. Circumstances are the same, but nothing bothering. All is as it is.
Beliefs and stories unroll by themselves without trying.
During the past month I have had several nights without any sleep. Much energy and no need for sleep. And it don't give the sleepy feeling for the next day. Before I could have slept the day arround. Maby for sleeping my whole life so far, gives some time awake now :D
If someone sees a 'me' here, please kill it as soon as possible :)

Every human should find the change to look. You are giving amazing changes to all. Lot's of love <3
With warm hugs
Multipass

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Re: Freedom is

Postby Ilona » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:48 am

This was delightful to read. Welcome home :)
The sense of effortlessness and the silent joy is a nice indication that something happened.
And it is unfolding precisely as it's best for you. This is a start of exploration, a beginning of new way of life. Great times.
I share the feeling that every human should have a chance to look :) and it's great to see this forum being a place where this seeing happens. If you feel that you would like to give a hand with guiding, whenever you are ready, that would be great.

And for now let this all settle in, be gentle to yourself, have a rest and we'll speak more tomorrow.

Much love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Multipass
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Re: Freedom is

Postby Multipass » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:49 am

You are absolutely right.

After waking up this morning, there was a sensation of kind of an hang ower. It appeared and some resistance was felt. The 'me' hang's arround but it has loosed it's power. It feels only like weak attempt's to try to get back. But since the believing in it has gone, the illusionary power of it has vanished.
The sensation came and went without any identificationint to it.

The floating of the mind explaining how this illusion has been built, runs through mind in a deeper level. All seems so obvious now.
The main thing that anythinc can be seen as something that it is not, is the believing we give to a thought without questioning it. Just any thought pattern. The observing what is happens, but we don't see it as it is. This happens because we believe the constantly speaking commentator of the mind, that describes all senced based on what has been learned and believed so far.

But there is only looking for what is. There is more clarity to be able to separate the illusion of what actually is. And also the stoories can be used freely to colour the appearing of perceptions when it is realized, that none of them are true. Also the "I" word can be used in the communication. It serves well in that purpose. Only as a label pointing toward, where the talking is happening. This was something, I noticed to avoid at first. It was also a me trick trying to confuse and make things difficult.

Yes, it is only a start and a lot to "look" still, but this seems to be happening on it's own. Very releaving sensation. Takes time to settle.

There is also moments when some heavier energy sensations comes and the thought 'is this disappearing now' arrises, but even those are not believed any longer and moment's are short.

There is a new kind of curiosity that waits what is coming next. Like a kid waiting for presents. It makes everything interesting. It is like playing the same game as always, but now knowing the rules, so it is not a surtain loss ower and ower again. Hope is strong.

Lot's of love to you <3
With warm hugs
Multipass


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