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Bill
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Re: Home

Postby Bill » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:44 pm

You keep telling me to look so I guess I need to keep looking because seeing that there’s no self and no I is not what you’re pointing at, right? If that’s the case, then I’ve no idea what I’m doing, I really don’t - and that’s what’s frustrating me.
Actually no, its not what I'm pointing at.. its an indirect observation of the looking...
What I'm pointing at is the most simple obvious thing in the world... that life and things simply are the way they are and if we just stop, and open our eyes and look, we can see this. Its seeing that our thoughts and labels ABOUT life color it and form our beliefs, and this really all stems from the root belief in an 'I' that is supposedly at the center and doing all of it. If you can stop and look like you have been doing, this can be seen.... that the 'self' is an overlay on life... a believed notion or assumption.....something that is not really there and findable. Again.. seeing that there is no self at all.... its a bi-product of the looking and is not really the goal... We simply want to see what is..... the way it is. This is not magical or mystical and need be accompanied by any shift as you are expecting. Some have it yes... some dont and its more of a gradual shift.

Question - If you can remember when you first started this and how you felt then... is your 'view' about things and life the same? Is anything different now?
Thing is, I don't know what else is expected ...we talked about this before and I'm clear that I don't expect any great happening, occurrence, bolt of lightening ... anything. But I do expect a noticeable shift in perception. Maybe it's more subtle that I expected, I don't know. Maybe there's the expectation of something less subtle. Maybe you're right when you mentioned in a previous post that you felt a sense of my being let down. Maybe that is it ... who (indeed) knows ...
This is it. Stop and look. The frustration is it. The uncertainty is it. There isn't a you doing them.. If you feel that you are really doing these.. then stop.. relax for a min and just look. Look at what is really happening. This is all about seeing what is really going on and happening and not just relying on the old assumptions and beliefs.
Your expectations are also 'it'. Is there really anything that could come up that would not be 'it'?
Im going to remind you again that this is not about figuring something out... its just about seeing what is here, now.
Don’t try to look for what isn’t. Instead, turn your face to the glaring truth, to the very obvious. What is here right now?


Im feeling that bottom line....is that you want things to be 'different' than they are now. You want to not feel frustration and want a personality shift maybe? You say "No, this is not what I want"... but you keep going back to it. Its got you stuck at the Gate. This is a normal expectation but it probably won't happen. You already are 'it' just as you are. Look and see this. Things can't really be any different than they are. Look at all the moments in the day when this 'self' is in the background and not even noticed... and you are simply being... and not a thing is wrong...then a thought pops in..

What's wrong with right now.... unless you think about it?

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Bill
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Re: Home

Postby Bill » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:30 pm

Hi Pauline... in an attempt to give you everything I have at my disposal... here are some great pointers I have from one of my favorite nondual authors.. John Wheeler.
Just let these in....

... whenever self-centered thoughts appear, there is the arising of apparant suffering. Suffering means any type of worry, anxiety, fear, doubt, question, problem, seeking and so on. Be clear -- I am not talking about physical pain or ordinary bodily reactions. Nor am I talking about natural and spontaneous feelings and emotions coming through.

--

Step one is to see that all suffering, problems, doubts and questions arise in thought and nowhere else. There is nothing inherently wrong 'out there' nor in the body or mind themselves. Suffering is a creation in thinking. See if that is clear. Then we can go on to the next step.

--

Suffering is generated in the mind, in thinking. It does not exist anywhere else. The thoughts that create suffering are those that revolve around the sense of a separate self. This idea of being a limited separate being is the root driver of all self-centered experience. By inquiring into the validity of this core concept you can verify whether it is true or not. If it is seen to be false, then the basic cause is removed (through the seeing). This pulls the plug on the cause of suffering.

--

Suffering ultimately lies in our own thoughts and nowhere else. The particular thoughts involved specifically are self-centered thoughts that revolve around who and what we imagine ourselves to be. These in turn are rooted in, or based upon, the fundamental concept of a separate 'I' or limited self, which we take to be present and which we mistake as who we are.

--

You are not the limited person you have taken yourself to be. Look for the separate self and you find it entirely absent. Seeing this, suffering, doubt and confusion effortlessly drop away, revealing your natural state of innate happiness and freedom.

--

... once there is thought, there is no reason why anything cannot be imagined. One of those imaginings is the belief in a central character. That happens to be the source of all suffering. From a practical perspective, the most important thing is to uncover the false belief and live free of suffering. That is why Buddha focused primarily on the cause and end of suffering and was not inclined to discuss speculative metaphysics and theories. If you want to be free of suffering, doubts and confusion just look at the basics and resolve the fundamental ignorance.

--

Problems, thoughts, feelings and so on continue to arise. But when the 'I' is seen through then there is no one to take hold of them and identify with them. So situations still arise and are dealt with but without the tension and identifying as a separate individual doer.

--

In general, the ultimate source of suffering is not usually fully addressed by the standard types of counseling and therapy. They may be good but might not have the full answers. That needs to be tested and verified in one's own experience.

--

All problems, doubts and questions (collectively called 'suffering') are just thoughts. Verify this for yourself. All suffering is for someone, for a person who imagines himself or herself to be limited and separate. Thus, all suffering and doubts are really just self-centered thinking. Self-centered thoughts are simply thoughts that revolve around the assumption of the existence of a separate self. So the idea of a separate 'I' is the foundation upon which all self-centered thinking is based. Self-centered thinking always presumes that the 'I' is present and real and that this is what we are.

If the 'I' cannot be found, then who has a problem, who is not good enough, who needs to attain something and so forth?

--

... suffering is investigated and its cause is discovered to be absent. This investigation has the result of exposing the root cause of suffering, which is the imagined sense of separation from our real source.

--

Once you see that suffering is just a movement in thought and has no real existence, the sword is put to the root. You can never quite experience it the same way once you see this. Again, the seeing is the key, not any action you take -- because there is no 'you'!

--

What is the reality? What is my true nature? Are these truly separate? And this separate 'I' that we take ourselves to be, what is it? Where is it? Can we find it?

A life of suffering presupposes that these questions are not fully clear to us. Once they are understood, the root of suffering, doubts and questions is resolved, and these issues do not trouble us. Until then, the questioning goes on until we are satisfied and see the truth for ourselves.

--

Your heart, kidneys, lungs and other bodily functions have been ceaselessly functioning from birth. They have not been troubled by a sense of responsibility for their much-needed work. The trouble comes with the sense of being an 'I' who feels itself to be present and responsible. It is all happening to 'me', or 'I' am doing it. That is the kicker and the real source of trouble. You will find that everything comes back to the problematic sense of self at the center.

It all gets down to a change in perspective, not any particular change in what is happening. I assure you that choices, actions and all else can and will go on. But the suffering does not need to!

--

When we are unclear on our basic identity and are living under the sway of the feeling of being an independent and isolated self, we are plagued with a fundamental sense of doubt, insecurity and fear. This leads to all manner of questions, seeking, searching, grasping at imagined sources of happiness and so on. At a mental level this manifests as agitated, distressing thoughts and emotions. Rather than getting to the core and resolving the basic source of the problem, many of us attempt to fix the problem by searching for security, certainty and happiness in the world, through the body or through the mind. But the answer is never really fully achieved because we are overlooking the basic root cause of the problem.

--

With no identifiable separate self in the picture, there is no one present who has a problem, no one who needs to get anywhere, no one who is lacking, deficient or apart. The discovery of the lack of any substantial person or being effectively annihilates all problems, doubts, questions, seeking and suffering.

--

The whole basis of suffering is the mind creating erroneous concepts and beliefs that we then take to be real. Whatever the mind says about you are just some unexamined, erroneous beliefs that were picked up during the years of not knowing any better. None of them are true! They have no real significance in relation to you. And there is not anything that needs to be done. See a thought as a thought and let it be. It will come as it went. When you see thoughts as thoughts and put no particular value or weight on them, they leave. It is like a rude salesman knocking at your door. Ignore him and he leaves.

There is being ... and thoughts. Put your attention on the fact of your being and turn away from self-centered thoughts as being irrelevant. Pull the attention away from them and they wither like autumn leaves. Our interest to the point of excessive focus, is what gives thems all the juice. Do not be concerned about a pile of dead, lifeless leaves. As they blow in, they will blow out.

... Anything that can arise in the future is not worth waiting for. ... Leave all these thoughts and concepts alone and rest in and as being, which is a natural and uncomplicated presence that is bright with peace and love. Thoughts do not touch this at all. So do not fight thoughts. Only see them for what they are. If you can turn away from them, do so. If not, then thoroughly question them. You are not a thought. Thoughts do not touch you.

--

Self-centered thoughts are what suffering is -- nothing else. ... The very sense of being ... that is easily and doubtlessly present is what you are.

... it is still worthwhile to thoroughly understand the origin and mechanism of suffering. Self-centered thoughts have been acquired over the course of living. They live and survive in thought. Without thought they are not existent.

--

... self-centered thoughts are rooted in the assumption or belief that there is a substantially existing thing called a self. This is otherwise called an ego, a person, an entity or ... a sense of 'me'. Not only is this self assumed to be real or present, but even more importantly in terms of experience of suffering, we believe that this is what we are. In other words, all suffering depends on the belief in a substantial, existing self. All of the self-centered thoughts are really just attributes or definitions of this entity. ... The arising of this belief in a separate self and our identity with that is the origin of suffering, doubt and the general sense of confusion about ourselves.

... seeing that the whole network of suffering is based on the belief in the presence of a separate self and our assumed identity with that, the solution is going to be to look to see if we can discover any such thing that is, in fact, a separate self. ... if this self-center exists and is real, I should be able to find it. Have a look into your thoughts, feelings, perceptions and anywhere else in your experience and see if you can find something that you can grasp hold of and say "This is me". See if you can find this self-center, which we have seen to be the root of all our suffering.

--

The most important fact to glean from this is that when you investigate the cause of suffering, you discover that it does not exist. Therefore, suffering is an appearance in the mind based on a false assumption. It survives as long as the cause (the separate self) is assumed or imagined to be real. If the cause is questioned and found to be non-existent, then can the effect remain? For example, when you imagine a thief in the house, there may arise fear and various plans to deal with the situation. But when you investigate and see that there is no thief can those fears and thoughts remain? To see for yourself -- not as a theory, but as a result of direct looking -- that there is no separate self pulls the root out of the whole network of self-centered thinking or suffering. What remains is the clear, doubtless presence of awareness, which is your natural state. With this recognition arises an innate sense of happiness, clarity and freedom which you cannot lose, since it is your own presence. In the absence of any self-centered thoughts, the direct understanding of who you are remains clear, unwavering and free of doubt.

-- John Wheeler

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PaulineF
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Re: Home

Postby PaulineF » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:38 pm

Hi Bill - hope all's well! Just a short one to check in and let you know I've not disappeared .... just taking in your latest posts and letting the words and guidance do what they need to. I'll respond fully at the weekend - this week's a write-off as far as me-time goes.

Thanks for being around - with gratitude for your guidance as always.

P.

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Re: Home

Postby PaulineF » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:49 am

Hi Bill
Question - If you can remember when you first started this and how you felt then... is your 'view' about things and life the same? Is anything different now?
Things are different. I can see that our thoughts and labels ABOUT life color it and form our beliefs, and this really all stems from the root belief in an 'I' that is supposedly at the center and doing all of it. Looking at life happening, I can see that it’s occurring without the need for any I or self. I notice more and more the thoughts that jump (often imperceptably) on to everything that happens as it occurs. Looking appears to invite more spaciousness. There’s less getting caught up in the stories and beliefs and the constant internal chat that’s going on. More moments of just noticing. More moments of ‘just dropping’, and of seeing that there’s ‘stuff happening’. Then just happily living with the I until remembering and looking, remembering and looking … checking … ‘Hang on, there’s no I doing this/hearing this/being this’.
This is it. Stop and look. The frustration is it. The uncertainty is it. There isn't a you doing them.. If you feel that you are really doing these.. then stop.. relax for a min and just look. Look at what is really happening. This is all about seeing what is really going on and happening and not just relying on the old assumptions and beliefs.
I’m stopping and looking more and more. That frustration - looking at that … noticing it’s just a sensation, noticing the stories layering over it that say the frustration is mine. Looking again … relaxing … not mine at all … just there. By the way, the frustration has lessened ;)
Your expectations are also 'it'. Is there really anything that could come up that would not be 'it'?
Im going to remind you again that this is not about figuring something out... its just about seeing what is here, now.
As we both know, this has been hard … the mind so wants to figure this out! "I want to figure it out!" Then looking ... there’s no figuring out needing done at all, and no I to figure it out … relaxing again. Noticing that and looking.
Im feeling that bottom line....is that you want things to be 'different' than they are now. You want to not feel frustration and want a personality shift maybe? You say "No, this is not what I want"... but you keep going back to it.
I guess there is an element of that … wanting so much to not feel the frustration because it’s so uncomfortable, and a bit scary, and then looking and seeing that there’s no one there to be frustrated, just the physical sensation then the labelling, 'I'm so frustrated!!". Remembering to look when that’s going on, then seeing it. I understand the futility of getting caught up in that ball of crap which is so sticky , and realising that frustration, that stickiness, all of it … is just it. It’s laughable really :) But there it goes.

Its got you stuck at the Gate. This is a normal expectation but it probably won't happen. You already are 'it' just as you are. Look and see this.
Yes, the expectations, whatever they are, still there ... looking at the expecting. Who's expecting? What expects? "I'm expecting life will go on but with this or that feeling/this or that way of being, sometime off in the future". Seeing those thoughts and the ridiculousness of them! Those thoughts are particularly sticky - I don't know why! Why more sticky than 'I fancy a cheese sandwich'? I have no idea. Looking and seeing that even figuring that out is ... a nonsense :)
What's wrong with right now.... unless you think about it?
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with right now at all. Even if I think about it, there’s the looking and seeing there’s just the thoughts, and that’s fine too, even if they are saying how wrong - or right - everything is. And so on.

So that's what's going on, Bill ... Thank you for the John Wheeler stuff ... I'm 'letting it sink in' - just dipping in and out of it, dipping in and out of looking. Things more spacious ... more looking, less getting caught up.

With gratitude, Bill :) P.

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Re: Home

Postby Bill » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:50 pm

Looking good Pauline.. .. I like what you're writing, looks like some relaxation around all of this. Good!

I just noticed your post as the email notifier seems to have quit notifying...
will be back to you later today (your tomorrow) with a post.
Keep it simple... this really is all about just seeing what is here, now.

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Re: Home

Postby Bill » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:56 am

Hi Pauline.
From your post it looks like you have relaxed some around this.
Its really just getting clear on what is going on and looking for yourself.
There is nothing that anyone else has or knows that is relevant on this that you don't.
Its simply a matter of continuing to look until you are convinced... and only you can do the convincing.

Im going to give you a few short questions.
Do continue with the Wheeler pointers as long as you are receptive to them.
I have quite a few more of them if needed.

-------------

Are you a separate someone apart from reality? Is this even possible. Look.
This is the base idea that all the suffering starts from.... a mistaken identity of what we are.

--------------

What is a concept? What is not a concept?

---------------

Do you feel you are still seeking? If so, what?

---------------


Is there an 'I' anywhere to be found in reality that could be fixed? or made whole?
Is there not just thoughts... and then more thoughts.... an endless stream even?


--------------

Something I wrote in the past:

Why is it so hard to see what's here? You have good eyes, and ears, and senses.
Stop and look right now. You are here.. and aware.. Present. I'm not referring to a personal you or self.... but 'you' who are reading these words. Notice this natural feeling of being alive.. of simply being....you've had it since you were born. Its never wavered.
This feeling/knowing is it. Its what we've been searching for and its been here all along. Its simpler than breathing. Its so obvious and common we miss it. We also don't see it as we're caught up in thinking there is some deeper answer. This keeps us caught up in mind traps and of trying to figure this all out, of waiting for that one final answer that will solve this mystery....So that 'some day' we will have it all together...
Many wait for that 'some day' all their lives and miss the fact its right here in front of them.
Its always been right here.
See the utter futility in this. Just stop... and look.

--------------------

another past writing:

See that what you are looking for, searching for... is here, right now.
Its always been here. We just haven't noticed it.
We're always looking for something MORE.
LOOK. truly LOOK at what's here now. Just simply notice.
This moment, right now, is the one you've wanted your whole life.
There's nothing, absolutely nothing that needs to be changed
either on your insides, or in your outer circumstances.

The brain says no, No, NO! It can't be this simple.
Its got to be different than this, more flashy,
greater insight, more bliss, oneness.... and on and on and on.
So we overlook THIS moment in hopes of a better one.
Of course that one is to come 'off in the future'. The future that never arrives...
This is the delusion. That this moment is not the one.
That this right now is not it!
How could this precious moment NOT be it?

When you see it, truly SEE it, you can relax and know that this moment is the one.
It's just ordinary everyday life as it is. We don't have to hope for something better.
The seeking can stop. We can put all the books back on the shelf.
No more teachers and classes and satsangs are needed either...
There's nothing to learn really and we can't lose this either because whatever occurs on the
inside or outside, it is always still THIS.
We just have to stop and LOOK again to see.

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Re: Home

Postby PaulineF » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:06 pm

Hi Bill :) Hope you're good!
Its really just getting clear on what is going on and looking for yourself.
There is nothing that anyone else has or knows that is relevant on this that you don't.
Its simply a matter of continuing to look until you are convinced... and only you can do the convincing.
That’s what’s going on :) Just continuing to look. Can’t deny that there’s the feeling something needs to happen, but looking and seeing that’s just another thought - someday, something, sometime, why not now? Just more stickiness. Anyway, getting caught up in stuff then relaxing, getting caught then relaxing … It’s funny how getting caught always seems to involve so-called ‘negative’ thinking or feelings. Never when things are joyful, fun or feeling good. Whatever, I’m just doing my Pontificating Pauline nonsense ;)

Are you a separate someone apart from reality? Is this even possible. Look.
No. There is no separate ‘me’, no separate entity that exists ‘apart from’. Argh - but I’m inclined to say the body here is separate from the tv over there, is separate from the keyboard on which it thumps. Physical body feels apart/separate from other physical things, but the physical body is not ‘me’ and nor is it mine, it just is. The I thought creates the separateness. Frustration arising. Mind blank. Listening - birdsong. No me and the birdsong, just the sound, then the labeling, then ‘I hear that’. Balls! Anyway, long and short of it Bill - no, no separate someone. Part of. Happening.

This is the base idea that all the suffering starts from.... a mistaken identity of what we are.
Yes! That’s totally seen. Then the thinking, ‘If only I could get rid of that pesky ‘I’ - life would be so sweet! Seeing the thought and being present.

Will answer the other questions later/tomorrow, Bill :)

With gratitude for your guidance as always .p.

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Re: Home

Postby PaulineF » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:04 pm

Hi Bill - hope you've had a good week :)

Let's go then -
What is a concept? What is not a concept?
Not sure how to answer this! Concept is a way of thinking about something, an abstract idea, a belief (perhaps). A way of describing something perhaps. In the final analysis, a concept is just another thought, another way of thinking ... 'Is that a concept, is that an idea, is that a way of talking about something?'. In that context (!) everything is a concept. Not a concept? Existence before labelling I guess. Everything the mind does, in a way, is conceptualizing.



---------------
Do you feel you are still seeking? If so, what?
I actually don’t feel like I’m seeking anything. There’s feelings of ‘ok, what now?’ - but I mean that in terms of I always saw seeing thru the illusion as a beginning and not an ending … I saw it, and do see it, as the start of something. Like, What next?! This is exciting!

Lately, there’s been more of a falling away of getting caught in the I story. It’s seen for what it is, just a thought, a concept ^^^, there sometimes (most of the time actually), but not there at others when looking. I can see that I wanted something more to happen, however it’s been very ordinary, very subtle (for me, anyway). I wanted something bigger, but that’s not the case anymore - I see that it was all just grasping at ideas and concepts, the desire for a big(ish) moment, a big ah-ha! But actually, just ‘resting’ and allowing and looking - things are lighter, more free when the I just takes a hike and leaves things to just unfold … Does that make sense? I don't know what else I can say about the seeking, except it's not there.

---------------

Is there an 'I' anywhere to be found in reality that could be fixed? or made whole?
Is there not just thoughts... and then more thoughts.... an endless stream even?
There IS and endless stream of thoughts … but noticing and looking and allowing creates more space. There’s no I to be found anywhere ... I checked and it's still not there ;) nothing to be fixed, nothing incomplete, nothing to be made whole. All is happening, mind is labelling and creating the big story. But nothing can be any different.

Is there anything to do?

With gratitude! P

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Re: Home

Postby Bill » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:45 pm

Hello Pauline..

Glad you're back.
I want to get a better feel on a few of these answer... some further questions asked in a little different way.
What is a concept? What is not a concept?
Not sure how to answer this! Concept is a way of thinking about something, an abstract idea, a belief (perhaps). A way of describing something perhaps. In the final analysis, a concept is just another thought, another way of thinking ... 'Is that a concept, is that an idea, is that a way of talking about something?'. In that context (!) everything is a concept. Not a concept? Existence before labelling I guess. Everything the mind does, in a way, is conceptualizing.
Let's look at this a little more...

Virtually everything that is not actually being experienced now, is a concept.
"Thinking about dinner" - concept
"Eating dinner" - not a concept.. its happening or happens
"The theory of evolution" - no matter which way you think about it... a concept
"watching a ball game" - not a concept.
"this guiding" - mostly conceptual except when you are doing exercises
"all thought (including the 'I' thought) - concept

We see quickly that nearly everything is a concept or idea... and a few of them strung together makes a story.
The story of 'me' is always the best one too... :)

Are you a concept? (not the fictitious 'me')
How do you know this?


--------------

Something I found on seeking....

The End of Spiritual Seeking

When the end of seeking occurs the need and impulse to acquire further 'answers' dissolves.

When the end of spiritual searching occurs the urge to read more spiritual books, go to more satsangs, go to more retreats, find exciting new teachers or get the latest from a particular teacher, is not there any more.

You will know when the end of seeking occurs. This one is not difficult.

You know that it has ended. You notice that you are not seeking any more.

It is not like trying to work out whether you are enlightened, or self-realized, or if you have become 'awake'.

To know that you have stopped seeking, you do not have to read a book or ask someone if it has happened.

It is simple and it is obvious.

There are no esoteric concepts to deal with. Not something you can take as an achievement.

The end of spiritual seeking occurs when you have realized what you have been looking for has been there all along.

The end of seeking occurs when you have realized that you are not the one you thought you were.

But maybe, the first thing you notice, some time later, is that the seeking has ended.

And the suffering has ended too.

In the above context.... tell me about your current level of seeking. Comment on any of these you want to.

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Re: Home

Postby PaulineF » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:11 pm

Hi Bill - Happy Sunday :)
We see quickly that nearly everything is a concept or idea... and a few of them strung together makes a story.
The story of 'me' is always the best one too... :)

Are you a concept? (not the fictitious 'me')
Yes.

How do you know this?
Because ‘I’ am not a direct experience. There is all kinds of stuff ing-ing (can I copyright that word? ;) with no ‘I’ there to do it, no self doing anything. Body, real. Seeing, real. Hearing, real. Stuff happening - real. Now ‘I could say, I’m looking out the window.’ Is that a concept? Yes. There is only looking, no I doing it. I is a thought, a story … Ideas, concepts strung together to form the I story. Checking … looking again for the I as fingers bash the keyboard … thoughts … typing, looking, letters on the screen … ideas and labelling about what’s going on. ‘I’, just another concept about what’s happening, when there’s just stuff happening …. And no I to be found. I can think on and on and on about the I … about me… about I’m doing this and going to do that and like this and hate that and am employed here and and am that age and believe in love, peace and understanding, but all concepts … all absolutely and utterly unreal. Not happening now. Not happening at all. Ever. Never has been, never will be. Ooops. What the - ?!

I looked through the 'End of seeking' list ... I'd like to sit with that stuff a little longer before I respond - different thoughts and feelings are arising around each of the points. There is, I guess, seeking still going on - different seeking! - but still seeking I guess. Will respond more fully soon!

With gratitude, P.

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Re: Home

Postby PaulineF » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:44 pm

In the above context.... tell me about your current level of seeking. Comment on any of these you want to.
I found this quite pesky … I want to say that seeking is over, and in a way, be done with it. And again, in a way, I do feel that I am done with it … just not quite ;) I realise that this means I’m not done with it at all, and feel let down because it feels like I have realised I’m not who/what I thought I was, and that it is very simple and obvious and I’m not trying to work out if I’m enlightened or not (and anyway, who the hell would be enlightened …)

I was listening to a Ram Dass talk yesterday and he was talking about this ‘not who you think you are’ and self-identification and all that/this … and I’d just written back to you about the ‘concept’ thing. I don’t know why but that concept ‘thing’ did something. And so I was listening to this talk and nodding away in agreement as I was going about my business and then I burst out laughing - like, of course! This is so fcking simple - and that’s all! This! It’s so ridiculous! (these were the thoughts arising) … and I’ve felt this several times lately, but for some reason it just felt different yesterday … and every time this happens I feel, yes! This! Just this! And it’s like being unchained or something , let loose, true freedom … Then back to I thoughts and just doing the being Pauline thing and then bang! Remembering, the simplicity! This! And each time that happens, it’s happened and I know exactly that I’m not what I thougth I was, that it’s all just what’s happening now … and then thinking, so I got it, surely to fck I’m thru the gate (though of course, no me, no gate to go thru, never was a gate, never will be a gate) … and the doubt. Then, well if I doubt, then it’s not happened. So - that’s where I’m at. On one hand, I sure as hell know that it’s a great big joke and that there’s no I, no controller, no do-er …. All of that … then, was it really so simple? Well of course it is ! This kind of back and forward between realising then doubt.

Does that make sense, Bill? What else can I tell you?

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Bill
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Re: Home

Postby Bill » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:30 am

Hi Pauline..
Yes, very good Pauline.. its very simple. Hang on to that!
One thing I'd suggest.. and that is to not get into other teachings, teachers etc as you are here with this.
Afterward.. anything goes.. but it can be confusing to hear other people, even very grounded ones as
what they are saying is going to be different than how we go about things. Most teachers of nonduality are
still into suggesting there is a doer who can do something (like a practice) that can lead to something called enlightenment.
As times goes on, there can be a tendency to want to go to thought and analyze this, study it, dissect it, tear it apart... doubt it etc. Did I really see this? Why is my brain still churning out all these thoughts? Maybe I just dont get it or never got it... and other musings.. you all are familiar with most of them. These doubts are all very normal.
Dont worry about what others say. Their stuff is only THEIR pointers. You have to look for Pauline to understand what you are for yourself. Nothing else matters. If you only read and think about what others (including me) say, you end up with a lot of conceptual information but no direct experience.
Dont get into looking for subtle states, experiences, feelings of bliss, mystical and exotic states, etc. This is a total trap. Reality is ever-present, non-experiential, changeless. To the mind it is totally boring and no thing. That is why the mind hates these teachings. Everything it expects is brushed aside as 'not it'.
And..... :)
You're still going to be Pauline. Same ol stuff. Its not going anywhere.
No big vacuum cleaner is going to come and attach to you and make you condition free.
I know... cause it didn't happen here.. or to anyone else I know.
This is it. Just like it is. This reality.. not an imagined one.
Waiting for this big shift is just another needless concept. While you are waiting, life is simply being what is.
Its here, fully present and beyond any doubts. Just look. This is often overlooked.
(Its already here.... always has been)

Instead of digging deeper into analysis... I eventually found I needed to go to looking again. Simple looking..
Ask...
What am I seeing and feeling now?
Am I a separate self apart from reality? Could this ever be the case?


Stay with looking at direct experience and dont conceptualize too much!
See the trap of continuing to look in the mind for what you already are.
Follow your direct experience instead of letting the mind take over the search.

Before the next doubt appears, you are already here.
Your being is present and beyond doubt. This is it.

Who is searching for what, when we are already THAT?

These pointers are all just concepts, words. If you hang on to them, you are hanging on to the false and perpetuating the identification with the mind. The point is to follow the pointers to what is being pointed TO.

I'll ask this again.... What's wrong with right now.... unless you think about it?

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Re: Home

Postby PaulineF » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:59 pm

What am I seeing and feeling now?
Am I a separate self apart from reality? Could this ever be the case?
Just what’s happening … typing on keyboard - happening, blossom on tree - happening, big sigh - happening. Everything just as it should be … just fine! Nothing wrong, nothing right either - just stuff happening. Thoughts kick in - labelling - looking again, just seeing, thoughts, Pauline. Fine! Feeling of joy in the physical body - thoughts, then just feeling again. All fine! NOticing how thoughts come in ... fine, let em come. None of it happening to anyone. No one thinking these thoughts. Quite the liberating feeling. Butterflies.

NO - no separate self apart from reality. This has never been the case. No ‘Well I existed once upon a time and now I don’t.’ Impossible. Just seeing that for where it seemingly all came from - such conditioning! - and where it’s seemingly all gone … from nothing, back to nothing. So obvious. So simple. Incredible. No separate self. Nothing happening to me. Nothing happening because of me. No me doing things, no me feeling hurt, no me feeling joy … just unfettered experience flowing through. Labelling and thoughts hop on board. Also fine - not my thoughts.
Who is searching for what, when we are already THAT?
Yes! No one is searching :) Peace. Excitement. Freedom. Butterflies :)
I'll ask this again.... What's wrong with right now.... unless you think about it?
How can anything be wrong with right now? Unless ‘I’ think about it - not possible, since I can’t think, I doesn’t think. There is no I … just the very convincing (sometimes!) illusion of the I supposedly doing things, thinking things, being things, wanting things. Silly! This moment, right now? Pure and perfect and couldn’t be any other way (though that’s just another way of describing something that can’t be described as far as that investigation has gone). Wow. It’s actually very funny - that’s why laughing is occurring when noticing/looking. No I listening to Ram Dass either. Just listening - do I still not have to listen if there’s no one to listen in the first place ? ;) All there is is stuff happening - seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, sensations. All occurring and not to anyone.

What else, Bill? What’s occurring?

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Re: Home

Postby Bill » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:44 pm

What's next?

Well Pauline, you sound pretty cooked to me...
We can turn you over and grill the other side if you like :)
I will just continue to ask you to look.. in your experience if you can find a doer (or not),
a decider (or not), or a real self (or not).

Can you tell me without any hesitation that there is no self around to be found?
Like none.... and there never was one...
Any other pressing questions or doubts on your end?

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PaulineF
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Re: Home

Postby PaulineF » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:20 pm

Hi Bill - sorry I couldn't get back to you yesterday ... the week is running away!

Yes! I'm pretty cooked - all sides done :D
Can you tell me without any hesitation that there is no self around to be found?
Like none.... and there never was one...
Any other pressing questions or doubts on your end?
I can tell you without hesitation, after lookin, lookin some more and lookin again that there's absolutely no self to be found anywhere. There never was one - just the idea of one, and a very convincing idea that was never questioned. It's funny how simple it really is!

There are no questions left, Bill - and no doubts. Life will go on being lived, Pauline will still be around, nothing changes. Just no I living it, no self doing stuff, ahhhhhhhh - nice :)

Thank you so much, Bill, for doing this - you don't even know me and yet you kept showing up to guide me - my gratitude for that is immense :) From the bottom of this heart in this body ;) - thankyou! It's been a great journey xx


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