Just a story

[MilkRed]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That everything I beleive is "me" or "my life" s a story, a narrative. I woke up this morning and was in a short state of just nothing before I remembered my life. I noticed I had to tell it to myself and remember how the story went.

What are you looking for at LU?
Help to get to see the storytelling even clearer. Fully seeing it, never being tricked back to believe it again. I must also admit that the story is painful and I would like to decrease my suffering. I've been in a dark night a couple of times in my life and it's also very lonely.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Being helped with pointed how and where to look for the truth. Also I sometimes don't know if what I'm experiencing is spiritual or psychological. I think that a guide would be of help to hold me in one place. Furthermore, it's sometimes tricky to be spiritually orientated when you go to work and people have no clue about that dimension (it seems), so some experience how to deal with everyday life while on the path would be good to have.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Tolle's "A New Earth" awoke me in 2011. Wow! Then when reading "A thousand names for joy" by Byron Katie, everything rang true. I started to do The Work for pain relief, but have also been astonished when I started questioning more fundamental beliefs about my identity, like my name, gender et.c.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?: 8

[katica]

Dear Pal,

We started this in a private chat but I am moving us over to this forum now. There is quite a wait right now for guides and I know you are anxious to continue on with inquiry so I am happy to assist you in exploring the illusion of the ‘separate self’ further via this channel. I can only point the way but you have to see it for yourself. That is why we are described as guides and not teachers. If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU using this link:
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Also,when replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... e+function

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As a reference I am pasting here the last portion of our conversation that we had during our chat sessions. Once you agree to the above we can move along to more explorations. So far you are doing great!

Ok then. This is what I perceive "real":
- what I see in front of me with the eyes
- what I hear
- similarly what I smell, taste (nose, mouth)
- what I can touch and hold on to, like the armrest of this chair I'm sitting in
Also the support of the chair and the floor
So much for the senses.

Then we have:
- thoughts appearing, short ones, or entire stories
- emotions, which is really the experience of the inner body
The inner body I cannot easily explain in words. It's experienced as an energy field
And this energy field is not homogeneous and not constant in time.
The inner body seems to map to the physical body, like when I say that the experience of sitting seems to appear as a sensation in "the bum".
This is what I find to be real .

Looking forward to hearing back from you!

With love,

Kathy

[MilkRed]

Thank you,

In our private conversation you wrote, last:

Watch your emotions today. See what they are made of

The emotions are like a field of energy manifested in this space of reality. They appear to be in this body, but sometimes when I go deeper into them, they appear as a cloud here. They gradually shift.

[katica]

Hi Pal,

The emotions are like a field of energy manifested in this space of reality. They appear to be in this body, but sometimes when I go deeper into them, they appear as a cloud here. They gradually shift.

Can you explain what an emotion is again? This time let's try to stick with actual experience without metaphors. We are trying to simply here by breaking things down to the simplest components we can actually experience.

Thanks Pal. Looking forward to hearing back from you.

With love,
Kathy

[MilkRed]

Right now I experience a pressure on my chest, breathing is not fully flowing - I call that fear.

Also there is an emptiness deeper in the chest - I call that sadness.




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[katica]

Hi Pal,

Right now I experience a pressure on my chest, breathing is not fully flowing - I call that fear.
Also there is an emptiness deeper in the chest - I call that sadness.

So would you call the pressure on your chest a sensation?

The labeling fear, what would that be? What is a label of anything?

Is this fear around this investigation? Would you like to share a bit more about it?

Thanks Pal.

Sending love and light your way.

Kathy

[MilkRed]

Kathy

So would you call the pressure on your chest a sensation?

Yes, absolutely.

When it comes to the sadness, which I strongly feel today it's more subtle. I've been sitting with it for a while and it's a sensation too.

The labeling fear, what would that be? What is a label of anything?

A thought.

Is this fear around this investigation? Would you like to share a bit more about it?

No the fear (and sadness) was there prior to this investigation. It's related to the thoughts I have about the future, primarily being alone without a partner (a recurring thought with accompanying images, created from and proven by past stories and images shown to me), and this means a meaningless life. But really that's a theory I have for the source of the fear - yet a thought/story obviously. I don't know that for sure.

Pål

[katica]

So you could say then an emotion is this:

Sensation + Thought?

What comes up when you consider this?

xox

Kathy

[MilkRed]

So you could say then an emotion is this:

Sensation + Thought?

No and yes. Well:

Emotion = sensation in the body triggered by a thought or an ongoing story (repeating thoughts with accompanied images).
This I have been taught (Katie), but I fully see it so it's my true experience.

I also see that an "emotional state" (having the same emotion in the body for a long time, like a day) seems to trigger thoughts / stories, in that I'm searching for the reason for the emotion. The "emotional state" may very well have been triggered by a thought or story but when falling in unconciousness these thoughts were never visible to me. So it could be true that emotion is always preceded by thought (and cannot happen without prior thouhgt) - BUT for me, sometimes it appears as though I just have an emotional state.

Labeling the emotion, like you point out Kathy, takes that I compare that emotion to some past emotional experience. Then I say - yes "this is fear" or "this is sadness". Comparing involves thinking, so in that sense the sensation has an accompanying thought, otherwise I wouldn't "know" what the sensation is or what I should call it. I have noticed this sometimes, especially when I have very strong emotions that I reflect: "How come I call this fear? It's just a sensation in the body. How do I even know that this sensation is a negative thought?" I have noted that I label fear, sadness, anger, shame, guilt negative thoughts and happiness postive thoughts. I'm not sure why. It just is that way.

[katica]

Hi Pal,

Emotions come and go, and they can be intense. Yet can you tell me, is there a feeler? Is there an entity to which emotion is happening to? Feel what you feel right now, whatever sensations are present, feel the bum on the chair, feet on the ground, breath coming in and out. Is there a gap between perceived and perceiver? Is there a being inside your skin?

xox
Kathy

[MilkRed]

There is feeling happening. Right now a lump in my throat is dominant.

I can find no feeler here (not see or otherwise perceive), just the experience of feeling. I can see the body here, but what I see does not feel. I can imagine a feeler sitting here, but then I create an entity which is either pictured or a story of a man with a past. I.e. a thought with the content of my life story.

I admit this is not entirely obvious, I have to be very present and really look.




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[katica]

Pal,

There is feeling happening. Right now a lump in my throat is dominant.

I can find no feeler here (not see or otherwise perceive), just the experience of feeling. I can see the body here, but what I see does not feel. I can imagine a feeler sitting here, but then I create an entity which is either pictured or a story of a man with a past. I.e. a thought with the content of my life story.

I admit this is not entirely obvious, I have to be very present and really look.

This is great looking Pal.

but then I create an entity which is either pictured or a story of a man with a past. I.e. a thought with the content of my life story.

Do you as in *I* create the thoughts and which become stories? Can you create thoughts? Tell me how this works.

xox
Kathy

[MilkRed]

Now we're moving into thoughts... exciting!
First of all, creating thoughts I would call "thinking". What are thoughts? Can "I" think? Seems we're also back to the free will question again.

The above questions are rhetorical. I will look and come back.


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[MilkRed]

Do you as in *I* create the thoughts and which become stories? Can you create thoughts? Tell me how this works.

I have been looking during this afternoon. I can not create thoughts. I trying to do that and notice the following:
"Now I'm going to think about... a cat". But "a cat" just showed up, I didn't do it. It was noticed. So in essence, when it comes to thought I cannot create them and cannot control them. They appear out from nowhere. Really. It appears like I'm thinking, but I'm not. Thoughts appear. The "a cat" thought then appears to be true creativity.

So, when it comes to thought, there is no free will, because will would imply thinking something.

I'm not ready here yet, so don't ask too many follow up questions yet Kathy...! There is something about resistance I want to investigate here. What is resistance? What happens when I resist thoughts?

And also, from above, who is the beleiver? Is there a believer?

Pål

[MilkRed]

Do you as in *I* create the thoughts and which become stories? Can you create thoughts? Tell me how this works.

I have been looking during this afternoon. I can not create thoughts. I trying to do that and notice the following:
"Now I'm going to think about... a cat". But "a cat" just showed up, I didn't do it. It was noticed. So in essence, when it comes to thought I cannot create them and cannot control them. They appear out from nowhere. Really. It appears like I'm thinking, but I'm not. Thoughts appear. The "a cat" thought then appears to be true creativity.

So, when it comes to thought, there is no free will, because will would imply thinking something.

I'm not ready here yet, so don't ask too many follow up questions yet Kathy...! There is something about resistance I want to investigate here. What is resistance? What happens when I resist thoughts?

And also, from above, who is the beleiver? Is there a believer?

Pål