Looking for a guide to explore the changes of life

[Ingen]

By "externalizing" I mean assuming the existence of an "objective" world "out there". Can you find that, in direct experience?

And, thank you! Talk later.

[adam_brunt]

There is only objective world as thought. I can't find an objective world in my direct experience.

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[Bill]

Hey Adam,

Great to see you are still around. :)

Can you see how simple all of this is?.... That it requires no thought at all.... but simply being here and looking at what is?

See in your own experience how the mind/brain wants to label and categorize everything and put it in it's place.... even if it has no place to be put..... and how this kind of knowing is not really knowing at all...
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The wish for a final “done” is — surprise, surprise — a story of the final carrot to be reached, a reason for the fictional “I” to try to get “somewhere.” Everything is constantly changing, moving, and interacting. There is no “done” in the real world. Check it. If you want to be at home, be at home in what's here now.
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THERE IS SOMETHING HAPPENING. Please re-read this a hundred thousand times. This is it. There is something happening. All the rest is story.
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Keep looking at your daily experiences. Look for the moment the “I” label gets attached to a movement, to “doing-ness.” There is an experience, and the thought comes up, “I” did it. Watch out for this. Be like a detective, ready to spot it! Experience happens, and a thought labels it.
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Please give us a brief update (a rant if you like) of where you are with this.

[adam_brunt]

I do think I understand how simple this all is. It's not meant to be a intellectual understanding, but one seen through looking. I see how simple it is. Thought is the thing that creates the problem of incorrect association as identity. If one sees the identification process in action, one can see how there is a simple misunderstanding of identity that becomes conditioning for us. That conditioning is the immediate association of an action with an actor. In direct experience we can see no one acting or doing the doing of life. It feels done by someone because we associate thoughts with a person that must be this body/mind organism we appear to be. There is a sense of I am. It is called I am, but what is it really? A sense of the body+ plus thought? If we are not this sense of I am, then what are we? We are no thing that can be measured, thought, or labeled. Life opening, being, expressing perhaps are close to pointing to what we are. Those are just pointers towards truth and are not to be taken literally.

One are that is challenging for me is the area of psychological problems. If someone has an emotional issue should that be addressed before trying to look into direct experience? Or, if you see that there is no I does that mean there are no emotional issues? I don't believe direct seeing is going to solve all your problems, but how does one address emotional issues without the help of modern psychology?

Thanks Bill!



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[adam_brunt]

Waiting for being done is just the postponement of not seeing. It's creating a new version of the self "better" than the self before.

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[adam_brunt]

I feel like I must keep looking. It's an active participation in life. Watching the I attaching to activity and labels is a grounding activity that I find very helpful to solidify what is seen in direct experience.

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[adam_brunt]

Honestly, most of my questions related to all this are towards the nature of reality not whether or not there is a person, an I associated with labeling and thoughts.

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[Bill]

Hey Adam...

I like what you wrote about how simple things are and the labeling process and identity..
Looks good.

about this:

One are that is challenging for me is the area of psychological problems. If someone has an emotional issue should that be addressed before trying to look into direct experience? Or, if you see that there is no I does that mean there are no emotional issues? I don't believe direct seeing is going to solve all your problems, but how does one address emotional issues without the help of modern psychology?

This can be looked at very easily Adam. All problems and emotional issues are for a self that does not exist in reality.
What problem is there that doesnt belong to some 'one'? Yes.. there are situations and conditons... true, but does anyone own them? No. They simply are.. just like everything else.
The key on this is to see with clarity that the self is truly an illusion. It does not mean all will be perfect after that and no emotions will be felt.... no. But when an issue pops up.. feel it.. and then look for the one who owns the problem. Keep looking for the 'entity' that would own a problem. Keep looking until this is very clear to you that there is no such thing and never was. This cuts emotional problems off at the root. Without a real self to suffer... who has issues and problems?

[Bill]

Honestly, most of my questions related to all this are towards the nature of reality not whether or not there is a person, an I associated with labeling and thoughts.

the nature of reality....
If you stop and look,iIs this not obvious? Is there an answer in words that could ever really suffice to this question?
Is reality not here right this very instant for you? Could it ever not be here?
Stop... and look. This is it. You are here. Not the personal self.. but 'you' who are reading these words.
Feel the aliveness of your very being. Its so very simple and obvious we overlook it and take it for granted.
You are here and aware.. this 'sense of self' is what I like to think of as our connection to life.
This is what we have been searching for... and its been right under our noses the whole time.

[adam_brunt]

Thank you Bill. Your responses have helped me to see what I have still been ruminating over. There are a set of ideas/beliefs on how it will look like to see the illusion of the separate self. It's like I have been walking around with these suitcases filled with expectations for years! I feel like I can set them down now and walk away. I don't need what's inside because it's not really what is required to be clear on true nature. The expectations are only going to setup a comparison process in the mind. That is activity of labeling and only lends to help reinforce improper expectations based on limited understanding.

I know I am alive. I know there is THIS happening. Each moment of happening is not capturable.There is a continuation of now's into the foreseeable future. All continuities of expression are one happening appearing through the lens of human perception as thought, time, labels, identity, emotions. Emotions happen like movements in the fluid of life. They are not permanent nor are they separate things to be buried after they disturb us.

I can see that my ideas about how things should be was in the way of seeing what is happening in direct experience. Seeing what is true in direct experience/looking is different than having ideas about what will happen once I am clear on what is true from actual looking. The thinking activity of analysis in comparison with my ideas on reality created an identity that only placed an obstacle course in the way of simple looking.

No one has issues or problems. "Having issues" is a popular term to use, but if I look I can not see me having issues or problems! Only thoughts. There are problems out in the world that get labeled and connected and then solutions are developed to fix them. That is part of the story isn't it? It is difficult to extend the understanding that there is no self to suffer out into a violent world with no apparent way to achieve peaceful resolve. But, then my expectations of peace are only thoughts, right?

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[adam_brunt]

Today I feel very clear on all this we have been discussing. Lots of looking throughout the day and seeing no I doing anything. There is a resting joy in relaxing into life. Just unfolding and response, but not in controlled I am doing this kind of way. So much gratitude flowing through the body!

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[Bill]

hello Adam... very good.. again I like what you are seeing and writing.
Seeing these expectations for real can be the eye opener that allows this to be seen.
I like it that you feel you are seeing clearly. You are the only one that can know this.

a few reinforcing pointers on the looking....

We think that something needs to happen to make us 'look'.. a jolt.. an epiphany, a fancy question from the guide...
No, the whole point is that we ARE already looking, noticing .. here... now..
We've always been looking.... We just haven't noticed that we are.
Do you notice your heart beating? or your breath? or your hair growing? No of course not.. yet
these all happen. Same with the looking. It is going on as we speak. You are taking in every sense
perception around you. Its there... Look. Just simply notice what is happening.
Remember that many have said this is so simple and so easy that it confounds most.
Its simply seeing what is here. We want to see what is actually happening versus what we think is happening.
Huge difference. This is a getting down to the nitty gritty and seeing what the eyes and senses actually take in.
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If you just stop..and look.. can you see that you are here and aware?
Nothing is required to do to see this, its so easy to see and is really undeniable.
Has this feeling of being present and aware not been with you since day one?
This is essentially the root of looking and is very easy if seen like this.
This natural feeling is what I'm pointing to.. this feeling of being here, alive and aware.
This is what we've been searching for our whole lives.. unaware its been right under our nose the whole time.

[adam_brunt]

Yes, I am feeling very clear about the sense of presence and being aware having always been there. I am not the thinking! The thinking feels like it's just moved out of the way I'm not wrestling with it. I had a feeling of a movement in the body like energy pushing out and just calmness sitting in the body afterwards. Not that I'm focused on if I'm having the "correct" type of feeling, but it was certainly there.

However, I am having trouble discussing this is a nice poetic way. There really aren't great words that I can come up with to discuss this right now. It's just that I know something "shifted" away from thinking and feeling associated with thoughts into a stability of the present. Nothing other than what is.

I don't know if we ever lose this understand/seeing rather it gets cluttered and covered with thought and comparison.

I have had several good laughs and I don't know why. I've heard that can happen. Then I started laughing because I was laughing. I'm just home cleaning and felt another level of clarity than what I have recently been experiencing. I felt very in my body and grounded but in a light energized way. Energized calm. I don't know if this makes sense. What words do I use?!

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[adam_brunt]

Who is there to see through the illusion that there is no one? There is seeing that what I am is not thought. Something like a pattern believing system moved out of the way and the natural sense is felt now and now and now.

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[Bill]

Hey Adam...

Im wondering if you feel you are ready for the final questions we ask... or are there any other issues you feel not clear on...or do you feel you are still seeking anything?

Your original post a few years ago went like this.....

May I ask what you hope for, or expect from our dialogue?

There was an intuitive sense to explore on my own what has been happening. It is challenging to go into this with a traditional therapist that is covered by my insurance. Especially when you are not exactly certain what is happening.

I guess I am exploring what anxiety can indicate in relation to a spiritual discovery. I know these are all concepts, but I am trying to point to that fact that my body is having a set of responses that are new to me and almost out of my control. It feels like I want to be healthy again. I want to feel calm about daily events and in the moment, but I am feeling challenged and not in control.

and then in starting back up earlier this year:

The anxiety is not necessarily connected to any conscious thoughts and arises from feelings of protection that start before any reaction to them. It feels like the anxiety will keep creeping in on a deep level no matter how well I see clearly the fact that there is no I, only thoughts, feelings, and sensations that are then attributed to an I. This seeing really helps lessen the anxiety, but it is still there. In the way. Sometimes I don't feel it at all and it's such a relief. I feel like myself.

Has these issues been addressed? still are issues? Please comment.