I Need Guidance

[Noobstorm]

The idea of no me feels comforting now that I understand some of the concept.

It also feels scary.. not existing.

[Life]

How can I hold on to I? There cannot be two I's right? :)

Now you dont have to look for an I, only need to look if there is really an i prior to all experience experiencing or just life flowing without an experiencer?

Can you take a peek, is there anything behind this fear? bring it closer, allow it to be, even honor it, it is there for a reason, what is it protecting?

[Noobstorm]

How can I hold on to I? There cannot be two I's right? :)

Now you dont have to look for an I, only need to look if there is really an i prior to all experience experiencing or just life flowing without an experiencer?

Can you take a peek, is there anything behind this fear? bring it closer, allow it to be, even honor it, it is there for a reason, what is it protecting?

So there are experiences (five senses, body, thoughts) and there is no one experiencing them? There are just experiences without an experiencer? Fear is protecting nothing.

[vinceschubert]

Yes, I think I will love everything and everyone unconditionally.

So until then, there are conditions.
Ali, where did those conditions come from originally ?
Where do they exist now ?
How are those conditions involved in a self ?

[Trevor]

Thank you Ali.
Now can you give a very detailed description of how "'I' is very real to me" '?
Exactly how is it real to you?
Where is 'I' for example?
What does 'I' feel like? Emotionally and physically.

I is a thought, and exists only in thought. It is separate from feelings.

Yes, that's right! I is merely a thought. It is just another thought.
Some thoughts are like labels and they refer to things.
What does the 'I' thought label?
Does the 'I' thought label anything real in the world? Is it like the thought 'chair' that refers to a real thing?
Or like 'batman' that refers to an imaginary thing?

[Life]

So there are experiences (five senses, body, thoughts) and there is no one experiencing them? There are just experiences without an experiencer? Fear is protecting nothing.

So is it your fear ali? We say there is no experiencer, now its up to you to investigate if that is true.

Do you control thought Ali? look, then answer.

[Noobstorm]

Yes, I think I will love everything and everyone unconditionally.

So until then, there are conditions.
Ali, where did those conditions come from originally ?
Where do they exist now ?
How are those conditions involved in a self ?

Those conditions came from I, from thought. That is where they exist.
I don't know how to answer the last question.

Thank you Ali.
Now can you give a very detailed description of how "'I' is very real to me" '?
Exactly how is it real to you?
Where is 'I' for example?
What does 'I' feel like? Emotionally and physically.

I is a thought, and exists only in thought. It is separate from feelings.

Yes, that's right! I is merely a thought. It is just another thought.
Some thoughts are like labels and they refer to things.
What does the 'I' thought label?
Does the 'I' thought label anything real in the world? Is it like the thought 'chair' that refers to a real thing?
Or like 'batman' that refers to an imaginary thing?

"I" is an assumption there is an experiencer, that you own yourself, but in direct experience all there is are experiences.

So there are experiences (five senses, body, thoughts) and there is no one experiencing them? There are just experiences without an experiencer? Fear is protecting nothing.

So is it your fear ali? We say there is no experiencer, now its up to you to investigate if that is true.

Do you control thought Ali? look, then answer.

I don't know Life.. I feel like I have some sort of control over it. I can't stop it but I can tell it where to go.

[Life]

So ali, when i told you not to think about a purple cow you thought about the pink panther?

Did you look this morning routine if you controlled every action? Could you also control what your exact first thought was?

[Noobstorm]

So ali, when i told you not to think about a purple cow you thought about the pink panther?

Did you look this morning routine if you controlled every action? Could you also control what your exact first thought was?

Yes I thought of a purple cow.

My actions this morning were robotic. But they can not be robotic when I want them to. I couldn't control my first thought but I believe I have an influence on them.

Sorry I think I am missing the point.

[vinceschubert]

Those conditions came from I, from thought

So Ali, is there a difference between I and thought ?

[Noobstorm]

Those conditions came from I, from thought

So Ali, is there a difference between I and thought ?

No, I is in thought, it's a concept.

Yet I still have trouble trying to understand this.. I feel very much like the one who is controlling the body and mind.

I don't experience an I directly but I am still assuming my identity if that makes any sense.

[vinceschubert]

I still have trouble trying to understand this..

Neither belief nor understanding can help, in fact both can hinder. Only your direct experiencing can show how the idea of a self is only an idea, a story. One that when believed will result in emotional responses that almost always result in suffering.
Don't try to understand (with the mind, which is after all only thought.) Just LOOK and you will discover the process that has deluded you since you were about 2 years of age.

I feel very much like the one who is controlling the body and mind.

Yes, this is the way the illusion works. The mind takes ownership and even uses time distortion to claim authorship.
Have a look at this video and you will see how the brain makes a decision BEFORE the mind even knows about it.
Further, notice the part where they induce an out of body experience so as to realise how the sense of self locates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E
Then come back and tell me if the assumption of an identity is still as strong.

[Noobstorm]

I still have trouble trying to understand this..

Neither belief nor understanding can help, in fact both can hinder. Only your direct experiencing can show how the idea of a self is only an idea, a story. One that when believed will result in emotional responses that almost always result in suffering.
Don't try to understand (with the mind, which is after all only thought.) Just LOOK and you will discover the process that has deluded you since you were about 2 years of age.

I feel very much like the one who is controlling the body and mind.

Yes, this is the way the illusion works. The mind takes ownership and even uses time distortion to claim authorship.
Have a look at this video and you will see how the brain makes a decision BEFORE the mind even knows about it.
Further, notice the part where they induce an out of body experience so as to realise how the sense of self locates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E
Then come back and tell me if the assumption of an identity is still as strong.

Vince, I look and look and I don't see what you want me to see. When I saw I was just forming more concepts and posting them here maybe that is what I was doing wrong.

I have watched the video, I don't know why my sense of self is still strong.

just move for ward from conceptual understanding and look.dont think this as a trial and error problem and end up "oh now i get it" .look more intensely ..it will be unfolded.
okay?

Thank you, I will keep looking more intensely.

[Noobstorm]

Is it possible for me to just not be able to see it? I looked for so long, and tried to put aside all concepts.

Could someone help me with this on the flash chat it will be faster & easier for me, thanks :) I am there right now.

[Noobstorm]

Is it possible for me to just not be able
to see it?

yeah sure.you have the capacity but still you may be not able to see .
you are such an idiot wasting your time in this stupid questions.i know you have not seen it and dont give excuses of getting because i know this are all lies.

It's not as easy for me as it was for you... and why would I give an excuse of getting it? I have come here with 100% honesty and I'm going to continue posting until I realize there is no self.

look just one last thing
dont just move around the door .keep rotating the knob.knocking the door for hours and then complaining i cant walk throught it...that it may not be possible for me.
just open the door thats all.

What if I don't recognize the door?