Greetings one and all..

[ray]

Hi Alec,

I guess I am expect something that'll make me go "ohhhh, okay. I get it now". Even that is a thought though, and not one which is permanently underlying all experience. Clarity (for lack of a better word) doesn't feel very stable at the moment. It fluctuates a lot. And there's still this sensation of identifying with the self half the time. Doesn't feel as clear as it should be. I appreciate that there'll be cloudy days though!

Fair enough, it doesn't feel as clear as it "should" be and there's some sort of expectation for how it should be. What if there isn't a particular thing that should happen or way that it should be?
Why not look back over the past day or three and describe a situation a) when it is clearly seen and another b) when you are wrapped up in this sense of self? What has changed in moving from a) to b) ?

When Santa Claus was seen to not be real you probably didn't spend all day thinking that there is no Santa. Can it be just like that with the self?

What can be said with confidence about direct experience of the senses and what can be said with confidence about the self , even though it isn't seen 24/7.

take it easy,
Ray

[Dawson]

Hi Ray,

. What if there isn't a particular thing that should happen or way that it should be?

Well then, my expectations of it being a particular way or for something to happen are maintaining a search.

Why not look back over the past day or three and describe a situation a) when it is clearly seen and another b) when you are wrapped up in this sense of self? What has changed in moving from a) to b) ?

Yesterday, everything felt very clear. There was just an acceptance of everything being as it is. Far less identification with thoughts, feeling and ideas. It just felt like weather; you can't control it and it's always changing. Ironically, it seems like when that's acknowledged, everything seems to flow a lot more. A grounded sense of being.

When I'm wrapped up in the sense of self, A lot of identification with everything happens. Thoughts, feelings, commitments and obligations feel like mine and my responsibility. It's when you take the thoughts as being real and something you're doing that changes when moving from a to b. It's buying into the stories and the drama. Feeling like there's stuff that needs your attention or is weighing on your mind.

Was walking yesterday and noticed these thoughts arise that would usually spur identification with that thought and to pursue it. They feel like they have a magnetic pull at times. But just noticing them without judging helps. They just pass and you see that thought isn't you either.

When Santa Claus was seen to not be real you probably didn't spend all day thinking that there is no Santa. Can it be just like that with the self?

I see what you mean. Yes, it can be that way with the self.

What can be said with confidence about direct experience of the senses and what can be said with confidence about the self , even though it isn't seen 24/7.

Well the self isn't ever the same. The attributes that the self seem to be comprised of are always changing. Never solid or consistent. It's always suggesting something that is. Whereas direct experience is always what it is.

Kind regards,
Alec

[ray]

Hi Alec,

Some really good observations in your last post. I can offer you no better guidance that to suggest re-reading what you wrote and look more closely into what was written.

Yesterday, everything felt very clear. There was just an acceptance of everything being as it is. Far less identification with thoughts, feeling and ideas. It just felt like weather; you can't control it and it's always changing. Ironically, it seems like when that's acknowledged, everything seems to flow a lot more. A grounded sense of being.

When I'm wrapped up in the sense of self, A lot of identification with everything happens. Thoughts, feelings, commitments and obligations feel like mine and my responsibility. It's when you take the thoughts as being real and something you're doing that changes when moving from a to b. It's buying into the stories and the drama. Feeling like there's stuff that needs your attention or is weighing on your mind.

Was walking yesterday and noticed these thoughts arise that would usually spur identification with that thought and to pursue it. They feel like they have a magnetic pull at times. But just noticing them without judging helps. They just pass and you see that thought isn't you either.

The weather analogy is really lovely. It brought that old song "Singing In The Rain" by Gene Kelly to mind.
It's when you take the thoughts as being real and something you're doing that changes when moving from a to b. Well described. Gently observe and notice when thought is being believed. Watch some more as it happens and report back. When you notice the "magnetic pull" of thoughts and they pass through, without judging, what is left?

The attributes that the self seem to be comprised of are always changing. Never solid or consistent. It's always suggesting something that is. Whereas direct experience is always what it is.

What do those attributes point to? What is there?

Kindly,
Ray

[Dawson]

Hi Ray,

When you notice the "magnetic pull" of thoughts and they pass through, without judging, what is left?

Just raw experience. Life living itself.

What do those attributes point to? What is there?

They point to nothing. That's the thing. It's just like another thing that's happening along with everything else. There's just this sense of being.

Thanks Ray. I'm going to take some time to look over our discussion and let things sink in.

All the best,
Alec

[ray]

Thanks Alec,

Taking time to let it sink in sounds just fine.
Please write what comes up. I'll be here to ask more question as appropriate.

All the best
Ray

[ray]

Hi Alec,
How are things settling?
Is there anything you'd like to share?

Ray

[Dawson]

Hi Ray,

Sorry for the lack of response but life is now truly hectic!

Just noticing things as they arise and taking it from there really. I'm not sure there's anything I can share that I haven't expressed already in some way. Just sensing a gradual ease and letting go of trying to achieve anything or getting somewhere. Nothing definitive, but that's fine. Things seem to unfold at their own pace. I have Ilona's book that I've been reading when I have a spare moment, and will continue to do so.

All the best,
Alec

[ray]

Hi Alec,

No problem. Whatever feels right for you at the moment.
If the world's a hectic place and, presumably, there isn't a fire to get this done, then that is how it is right now.

Nice that you have Ilona's book. i am sure you appreciate that this investigation hinges not in reading about it but in putting the book down and actually looking in experience.

When you want to write I'll be here,

All the best,
Ray

[Dawson]

Thanks Ray,

Really appreciate it.

Kind regards,
Alec