Why wait any longer... let's start !

[Ronald]

Dear Kevin,

It’s good to hear from you, everything is going fine here.

After reading the entire thread, it's pretty obvious that I'm going in circles or constantly bumping into the same barrier. The barrier is believing in a separate self and getting hooked by thoughts/ believing in thoughts.

Good observation.

Next time “you” bump into this barrier look why it is so important for the mind to have, at that particular moment, a “self “at the wheel, then look if “you” can find this "self"….if “you” can find it describe it……make a drawing of it or make a picture of it…..if “you” cannot find it stay with the feelings /emotions/thoughts, that come up and see them pass, from the passenger seat, in this way the new circle doesn’t have to start…and when it starts than “you” do the same exercise…again.

Please write me what you found or didn't find, also about feelings,emotions, thoughts insights..etc.

Explore…

With love,

Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

It seems that the mind wants to be "in control" or "front and center" at all times. There appear to be many reasons including habit, boredom and restlessness of the mind (when it is not front and center) or getting caught-up in a stressful moment. Sometimes it is very difficult to get the mind out of the way or step out of identifying with the mind and at other times - like yesterday - it seems very natural and easy to see the minds place and not identify with it. I can't draw a picture of me/I - I would draw a picture of my face but I know that's not really "me". (There is no me - just a body, a mind and something that notices everything - including most of the body and minds activities).

As I alluded to above, sometimes staying in the passenger seat and watching thoughts, emotions and feelings is very easy and sometimes it is very difficult. It definitely feels freeing and liberating/relaxing when seated in the passenger seat. I know of a teacher who stated that it's very important to stay in the passenger seat when very strong emotions and feelings take place. Another teacher stated that it takes time for conditioning to develop and it also takes time for conditioning to unfold.

Peace

Kevin

[Ronald]

Hi Kevin,

It’s good to read your observations.I can feel that there is less identification with what is going one.

It seems that the mind wants to be "in control" or "front and center" at all times.

Yes that’s the function of the mind, protecting the body , making sure that it does survive.
It’s very helpful to look in the moment whether the body is really in danger or not. When it is ,it will react, when it isn’t ,body and mind can relax and be in the moment.

There appear to be many reasons including habit, boredom and restlessness of the mind (when it is not front and center) or getting caught-up in a stressful moment. Sometimes it is very difficult to get the mind out of the way or step out of identifying with the mind...

That's true sometimes feelings, emotions, sensations can be very strong, give them space ,the more space they have the less pressure there is. They will pass....

- like yesterday - it seems very natural and easy to see the minds place and not identify with it.

Pure gold the de-programming an re-programming is working also based on this experience.

I can't draw a picture of me/I - I would draw a picture of my face but I know that's not really "me". (There is no me - just a body, a mind and something that notices everything - including most of the body and minds activities).

Can you find something that is noticing or is noticing just happening?

As I alluded to above, sometimes staying in the passenger seat and watching thoughts, emotions and feelings is very easy and sometimes it is very difficult.

Yes it is, breathe through them, invite them, don’t fight them, it’s just energy passing by.

It definitely feels freeing and liberating/relaxing when seated in the passenger seat. I know of a teacher who stated that it's very important to stay in the passenger seat when very strong emotions and feelings take place.

Try it, literally, when strong feelings are there, sit on a chair /or the (real)passenger chair of the car and let it be, whatever it is, it won’t kill you, otherwise you would have been dead for a long time now.

Another teacher stated that it takes time for conditioning to develop and it also takes time for conditioning to unfold.

That’s what we are doing, you’ve seen that there is no “I”, it chanced your perspective, but the conditioning is still there, nothing changed, only the knowing that it’s not personal and that everything is happening automatically.

Sunny days, rainy days

Peace

Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

I really enjoyed your reply - it made a lot of sense.

Can you find something that is noticing or is noticing just happening?

Both, something that is "noticing" can be observed and this noticing is happening all the time. For example, it is noticed that thoughts and emotions are being noticed/observed. When looked at or investigated, this noticing is impersonal and seems to have no boundaries.

I had a question: many teachers including Nisaragadatta state that realization takes "earnestness" and must be at the forefront of ones attention. Any comment on that? Does an individual have to be extremely earnest to come to this realization?

Thanks again.

Peace

Kevin

[Ronald]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the enthusiasm, clarity and earnestness :-).

Both, something that is "noticing" can be observed and this noticing is happening all the time. For example, it is noticed that thoughts and emotions are being noticed/observed.
When looked at or investigated, this noticing is impersonal and seems to have no boundaries.

Yes very important observation, for many people not the easiest to make.
Seeing that there is no “I” separate from the stream of life is one thing, seeing that noticing/awareness/consciousness is impersonal and automatically arising in the stream of life is an even bigger step. When it’s seen that it’s boundless/infinite then the source is seen.

Seeing these three things is stepping through the Gateless Gate!


Living life with these three things in mind has an influence on how life is experienced.

Can you please write me how it is for “you”, to live life, seeing these three points?

(Just things experiencend in daily life, maybe the difference between when you started with the thread and now,
your realations with "others" with "yourself" ...and so on.)

I had a question: many teachers including Nisaragadatta state that realization takes "earnestness" and must be at the forefront of ones attention. Any comment on that? Does an individual have to be extremely earnest to come to this realization?

Some people see the truth after a severe search, others wake up without any effort, but it’s always life enfolding spontaneously, there is always nobody, doing nothing.

With love,

Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

Can you please write me how it is for “you”, to live life, seeing these three points?
(Just things experiencend in daily life, maybe the difference between when you started with the thread and now,
your realations with "others" with "yourself" ...and so on.)

The toughest of the three points is realizing that there is no one "in control". During the day an attempt is made to realize what thoughts and emotions really are and where they come from. This path has been particularly helpful when it is remembered that the "Source" is all there really is - especially in stressful situations. Investigating where all of my thoughts and emotions come from - tracing them to their origin has also been helpful. If there is a day when there is a continuous recognition (relatively speaking) of the "Source" and a seeing of what thoughts and emotions really are, an intense sense of relaxation and peace is experienced as an after affect. It is recognized that it is very helpful to "everyone" when living in the three points/being aligned with the source - (or realizing that I am the source). It is seen that there is vast space beyond the observer but it is hard to stay put in that space - even though I actually am staying put in that space.

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks for you persistence and "Peace" to you Ronald.

Kevin

[Ronald]

Hi Kevin,

Your words make a lot of sense.

The toughest of the three points is realizing that there is no one "in control".

Yes it mostly is, because control is where the lie of separation is built on, but it also the most freeing one, when you can see through this.

Look around you, in nature is there any-one/anything separate from the stream of life, that is in control? Look when you think you control something , some situation is there a separate entity an I that is do in the controlling. Or is action just happening and labeled as controlling afterwards?

This path has been particularly helpful when it is remembered that the "Source" is all there really is - especially in stressful situations. Investigating where all of my thoughts and emotions come from - tracing them to their origin has also been helpful.

Yes, stressful situations are very helpful, when you want to know what is real and what is a lie/story.

If there is a day when there is a continuous recognition (relatively speaking) of the "Source" and a seeing of what thoughts and emotions really are, an intense sense of relaxation and peace is experienced as an after affect.

Isn’t it good to experience this!

Every time you experience this relaxation/peace it’s a stepping stone..to the next period of peace and relaxation….reprogramming happens automatically.

It is recognized that it is very helpful to "everyone" when living in the three points/being aligned with the source - (or realizing that I am the source).

You are an expression of the source, everyone and everything is an expression of the source,
seeing this will give more understanding and compassion.

It is seen that there is vast space beyond the observer but it is hard to stay put in that space - even though I actually am staying put in that space.

When you close your eyes and let your attention go into your body, can you see/sense that the vast space is also there? Notice if you can find any boundaries? Is there really an inside or outside of the body?
Trace a feeling, sound, emotion back to its root an all you find is that vast and open space. Try it!

You are doing great, relax…everything is already unwinding!


Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

Below are responses to your questions and exercises.

When you close your eyes and let your attention go into your body, can you see/sense that the vast space is also there? Notice if you can find any boundaries? Is there really an inside or outside of the body?
Trace a feeling, sound, emotion back to its root an all you find is that vast and open space. Try it!

When trying the exercise, it is easily seen that the vast space covers everything and there are no boundaries or separation. I often trace feelings and emotions back to where they originated and see that they come from the "vast space". However, this must all be "noticed" or this must be remembered or "looked at" to be "seen". All of this seems to be forgotten for long periods of time. (You're probably tired of hearing this.)

One of my favorite books is "I AM THAT by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. When reading this book, Nisargadatta's words seem to be completely understood and have a very powerful resonance. It's amazing that his words are forgotten until the book is read again despite having a sense of complete understanding. Once again, it's all probably just a matter of conditioning taking time to unwind. Instinct suggests to relax and keep remembering to remember and it will all unfold at some point.

Peace to you Ronald.

Kevin

[Ronald]

Hi Kevin,

Your answers are sensitive, truthful and clear.

When trying the exercise, it is easily seen that the vast space covers everything and there are no boundaries or separation. I often trace feelings and emotions back to where they originated and see that they come from the "vast space".

The miracle of Form= Emptiness and Emptiness = Form

However, this must all be "noticed" or this must be remembered or "looked at" to be "seen". All of this seems to be forgotten for long periods of time.

This is so true and the coming and going of clarity is also happening automatically.
It can be forgotten for a period of time,not to long because we are writing every day, but it’s not forgotten by some-one, forgetting is automatically appearing and disappearing.
That's why there are Sangha's and books and the LU-unleashed groups, to help "eachother" to remember the truth.

Once again, it's all probably just a matter of conditioning taking time to unwind.

Seeing is a onetime thing….and it’s the beginning of a new way of looking at live.
When “your “eyes are opened it’s possible to look at what is really happening…..everything is arising automatically out of “emptiness”, nothing personal….an amazing miracle!
Forgetting and remembering the truth and who you really are is part of this miracle :-)

Instinct suggests to relax and keep remembering to remember and it will all unfold at some point.

Good intuition, it will be remembered (and forgotten) and it is already unfolding.

Enjoy,

With love,

Ronald

[Ronald]

Dear Kevin,
It has been a couple of weeks since our last contact.
I’m wondering how you are doing en whether the unfolding is still going on.
Are there any new insights, any questions?
Please feel free to write.
I’ll be away from the 4 th till the 24 th of august and I won’t have an internet connection.

A nice summer to you and your family.
With love,
Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

Thanks for checking in. I do think things continue to unfold, however, realizing my true self hasn't been been the top priority

- sometimes it's felt more than other times. There are currently a lot of distractions - but I guess there will always be distractions.

Everything I read or hear about one's "true nature" I completely understand on a conceptual level - I guess it's time to stop conceptualizing.

I hope you have a great hiatus and you're doing well.

Peace and Health to you.

Kevin

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

I hope you enjoyed your time off. Can you offer any additional advice on how I should proceed in recognizing my true self? Should I just continue to recognize the space that hears the thoughts throughout each day?

Hope you're well.

Peace

Kevin

[Ronald]

Dear Kevin,

It’s good to hear from you.
I hope you are doing well and that you and your family are in good health.

I did enjoy my time off , thank you.

You asked:

Should I just continue to recognize the space that hears the thoughts throughout each day?

Look in your own experience and “see” whether there is a distance, in time or place, between the space and the thoughts. (even the thought :I recognize the space that hears the thoughts)

What about: I am the space that hears the thoughts ?

Hope to hear from you,

With love,

Ronald

[Ronald]

Dear Kevin,

Here are the last to items of the thread.

by Kevin49 » September 13th, 2012, 3:22 pm

Hi Ronald,

I hope you enjoyed your time off. Can you offer any additional advice on how I should proceed in recognizing my true self? Should I just continue to recognize the space that hears the thoughts throughout each day?

Hope you're well.

Peace

Kevin
Kevin49

Posts: 79
Joined: April 18th, 2012, 12:27 am
Private messageE-mail Kevin49 Top
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Report this postReply with quote Re: Why wait any longer... let's start !
by Ronald » September 14th, 2012, 9:18 pm

Dear Kevin,

It’s good to hear from you.
I hope you are doing well and that you and your family are in good health.

I did enjoy my time off , thank you.

You asked:
Should I just continue to recognize the space that hears the thoughts throughout each day?

Look in your own experience and “see” whether there is a distance, in time or place, between the space and the thoughts. (even the thought :I recognize the space that hears the thoughts)

What about: I am the space that hears the thoughts ?

Hope to hear from you,

With love,

Ronald

[Kevin49]

Hi Ronald,

Sorry for not seeing your post - I tried sending you an email as well. This board seems to be extremely busy these days. Glad you enjoyed your time off - my family and I are doing well.

To answer your question below, when pausing all thoughts, it is recognized that I am the space that hears the thoughts. It is seen that my true essence is this space that includes everything - there is no separation. However, as I've stated in the past, this recognition realized after the pauses/throughout the day.

Peace,

Kevin