Please, please show me the way through !

[jimw]

I can - experiencing is just stuff happening, 'me' seems a bit like a 'ghost' or a phantom

[vinceschubert]

Jim, is a ghost or phantom a concept ?
Is me a concept ?
Have you ever experienced a self that is actually more than a story ?

[jimw]

no I can't, not outside of memory and time

[jimw]

ghost and phantom are concepts - me must be a concept, 'me' does seem to just be one great big story

[vinceschubert]

So Jim, how does self work ?
How did it originate ?

You have used this story to navigate life in the past, how will life-ing occur without the belief that you are this story ?

Jim, the purpose of these questions is to 'position' you for a discovery, so be a bit more verbose in your replies please.

[vinceschubert]

me must be a concept, 'me' does seem to just be one great big story

Jim, this sounds like a logical deduction. "must be..", "seem to just be.."
Thoughts are untrustworthy for this exercise, (the scientist in you might be repelled by this) as they are contaminated by unexplored beliefs. LOOK, can you find anything resembling a self that is not conceptual?

[jimw]

The self only exists as concept, it isn't real I have looked directly at this number of times (not just through thought, which is very fickle)- it doesn't result in any great 'shift' or 'release though'. Things are, as they are. Thoughts come and go, sensations come and go.

[vinceschubert]

Welcome to reality Jim.

it doesn't result in any great 'shift' or 'release though'.

Are your expectations that there would be a great shift anything more than concepts ?

Thoughts come and go, sensations come and go.

Of course they do, and they will, until they don't. How many years of conditioning is behind this behavior ?
Once identification with a self is disengaged, then de-conditioning starts.
Each time old behavior (thinking, emoting) is 'seen' to happen, a chuckle will rise from the stomach region and the habit will weaken and become less frequent. Some will totally evaporate after one 'seeing' and others will be a progressive dissipation.

Things are, as they are.

Excellent, well said. This is where the beauty and perfection is.
i call it the sweet spot, and recognising sensations associated with 'touching' it was extremely valuable for me when doubts occurred. This popped out last christmas day. http://draft.blogger.com/blogger.g?blog ... 537776943

[jimw]

Aha - yeah - the 'great shift' is just a concept itself - haha ! Crazy isn't it :)

I have had a number of times recently normally when I was out walking the dog when I started to spontaneously smile / laugh, when the mind went very quiet and 'I' saw through the craziness of it all. I'll have a read through your blog - at work at the moment :) Maybe I have already had a taste / glimpse of freedom or maybe I am already 'there' and just didn't click, because I was waiting for some existential big 'shift' in perception....

[jimw]

actually - just tried to get to the blog - link seems out of action...

[jimw]

Ignore last post - found it - I have experienced the 'sweet spot' a few times over the last couple of weeks - exactly the same ! Then a few days ago I into the whole 'this can't be awakening yet, I have got miles to go' and other such conceptual nonsense. Mmm - I will ponder further (in awareness not thought!)

[vinceschubert]

maybe I am already 'there'

i suspect that this is the case, but this is a beginning. This is where things start. There is no end point (that i know of)
If you are inclined go to early November 2011 (when it happened here) and you will find similarities.
i too had expectations of a 'sonic boom' that never happened.

when I started to spontaneously smile / laugh, when the mind went very quiet and 'I' saw through the craziness of it all.

This behavior is common in liberated beings.
Remember, we are discovering what has always already been the case.
This might make sense to you now; "Nothing will change, but everything will be different"

[vinceschubert]

Jim, would you answer the following questions somewhat verbosely please;
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

5) What was the last bit that tipped you over, that triggered the 'seeing' ?

[vinceschubert]

bed time again here.
i'll get your answers tomorrow (if they happen)

good feelings to you brother.

vince

[jimw]

hehehe - no ! I have just had to leave my office to go and stand in the rain and laugh at myself :) - just before I read your last post !! Oh it is funny - 'when is the shift going to occur?' - err, it was always there ! What a fool this 'me' is !