Is that so?

[forgetmenot]

Hello Stello,

And if you breakdown what thought says a ‘moment’ is…what is the so-called ‘moment’ presenting, what is actually always there?

Breaking a 'moment' down leaves us with Actual Experience (smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts).

Yes exactly! Now…is there smell AND taste AND sound AND sensation AND colour AND thought or is there just smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought?

Do the body’s eyes see? Is there a difference between ‘mental’ images and ‘visual’ images?

There's a concept of the human eye and how it is supposed to work(see), but this is not my experience. In actual experience there is just seeing with no difference between mental and visual images.

And what is ‘seeing’ comprised of?


Okay…since the body’s eyes don’t see…let’s look further at the body 

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.

Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.

Love, Kay
xx

[Stello]

Hello Kay,

Yes exactly! Now…is there smell AND taste AND sound AND sensation AND colour AND thought or is there just smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought?

I wanna say that there is 'always' just smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought, although one might say if there is no odor there is no smell and then there's only tastesoundsensationcolourthought. But in order to find out whether there's odor or not, there's got be smelling first, right?
So I stick with: "there is 'always' just smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought." Am I overthinking again?

And what is ‘seeing’ comprised of?

It is just the experience of Colour.

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?

No and no.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

I can sense that something (the cloths I am wearing) is touching my skin in some areas. Also there is the sensation of something (the chair) on my back and bottom, but without an experienced shape or form of the body there's no way to tell when or where the body ends and the clothing/chair begins. As I noticed earlier in our conversation, locating sensations doesn't feel like an actual experience. So no boundaries are experienced.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

No inside and no outside is experienced. Everything just is. There is no way to actual experience location.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

My body is just thought content and that's what the word/label 'body' refers to.
There are sensations like pain, but those just are and then thought content tells the story that this pain is happening in the body.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

I find that, even with all the senses that are actually experienced through the body(including the tingling sensation on the soles of my feet, that I can sense when I turn my attention towards this body part), there is no ACTUAL experience of the body. It is thought that takes these sensations and tells the story about a body of mine.

Regards,
Stello

[forgetmenot]

Hi Stello,

My sincere apologies...I never got a notice of you responding to my post...so I thought you must be busy. So, I thought I would come and send you a post just seeing how you were going...only to see that you did respond. I will respond to your post today. Once again...my apologies.

Love, Kay
xx

[forgetmenot]

Hi Stello,

Actually I looked back in my files and I did respond, but it seems my response just disappeared! That is very strange. But once again...my apologies.

Yes exactly! Now…is there smell AND taste AND sound AND sensation AND colour AND thought or is there just smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought?

I wanna say that there is 'always' just smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought, although one might say if there is no odor there is no smell and then there's only tastesoundsensationcolourthought. But in order to find out whether there's odor or not, there's got be smelling first, right?
So I stick with: "there is 'always' just smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought." Am I overthinking again?

Okay…so can there be anyone or anything found that is actually smelling smells or are smells known?

Let’s take the smell labelled ‘coffee’. You can describe coffee…ie, what is it made from, and that it drunk hot or cold and that it tastes bitter, strong, weak, black, sweet and so on.

You can describe what the word ‘smell’ refers to, however, can you describe the experience of/as smell? Or is there only experience which thought is describing as smell?

Whether or not ‘smell’ appears or not, everything is ‘made of’ experience, it is only thought that divides experience into categories and further sub-categories, like colour, for instance.

Are there many different colours or just colour?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

I can sense that something (the cloths I am wearing) is touching my skin in some areas. Also there is the sensation of something (the chair) on my back and bottom, but without an experienced shape or form of the body there's no way to tell when or where the body ends and the clothing/chair begins. As I noticed earlier in our conversation, locating sensations doesn't feel like an actual experience. So no boundaries are experienced.

Yes, lovely, Stello. When all labels and images are ignored…the AE is sensation and sensation has no boundaries…it just IS.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

No inside and no outside is experienced. Everything just is. There is no way to actual experience location.

Yes, there is no actual experience of locations.
So what about the skin? Is that a boundary? Does that determine ‘inside’ and ‘outside’?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

My body is just thought content and that's what the word/label 'body' refers to.
There are sensations like pain, but those just are and then thought content tells the story that this pain is happening in the body.

What exactly is it that has a ‘body’?

What is the AE of the sensation labelled ‘pain’?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

I find that, even with all the senses that are actually experienced through the body(including the tingling sensation on the soles of my feet, that I can sense when I turn my attention towards this body part), there is no ACTUAL experience of the body. It is thought that takes these sensations and tells the story about a body of mine.

Beautiful, Stello….terrific LOOKING.

Love, Kay

xx

[Stello]

Hello Kay,

apology accepted. No hard feelings.

Okay…so can there be anyone or anything found that is actually smelling smells or are smells known?

No. I can't find anything or anyone. Like thoughts, smelling appears and disappears.

You can describe what the word ‘smell’ refers to, however, can you describe the experience of/as smell? Or is there only experience which thought is describing as smell?

I cannot describe the experience of smell. Actually I cannot describe any experience(or anything at all). It's just the assumption, that all humans have similar capabilities to experience, that enables us to have conversations.

Are there many different colours or just colour?

Well, there's only colour and then colour-content. Also with thought,smell,sensation, taste and sound.

So what about the skin? Is that a boundary? Does that determine ‘inside’ and ‘outside’?

No. Skin is just a name for some thing. No actual experience of skin can be found.

What exactly is it that has a ‘body’?

I have no idea.

What is the AE of the sensation labelled ‘pain’?

Sensation.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

There is no. Thought takes smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought and uses it to make up a story called body.

Best regards,
Stello

[forgetmenot]

Hi Stello,

apology accepted. No hard feelings.

And what exactly is it, that could have ‘hard feelings’ or take anything personally?

You can describe what the word ‘smell’ refers to, however, can you describe the experience of/as smell? Or is there only experience which thought is describing as smell?

I cannot describe the experience of smell. Actually I cannot describe any experience(or anything at all). It's just the assumption, that all humans have similar capabilities to experience, that enables us to have conversations.

Yes, lovely, Stello. Experience itself is indescribable.

And what is the AE of ‘conversations’?
What is the AE of ‘others’?

Are there many different colours or just colour?

Well, there's only colour and then colour-content. Also with thought,smell,sensation, taste and sound.

Explain to me what “colour-content” is please?

So what about the skin? Is that a boundary? Does that determine ‘inside’ and ‘outside’?

No. Skin is just a name for some thing. No actual experience of skin can be found.

Yes, exactly. The AE of skin is thought. And the sensations attributed to skin are just sensations and not skin.

What exactly is it that has a ‘body’?

I have no idea.

Well, have a LOOK. Can you find anyone/anything that has a body?
What is the AE of a ‘body’?

What is the AE of the sensation labelled ‘pain’?

Sensation.

Yes…the label ‘pain’ is the AE of thought
The thoughts about pain are AE of thought
The sensation ‘ouchouch’ is the AE of sensation
The image labelled ‘me/body’ is the AE of colour

So no AE of pain…what is actually appearing is labelsensationcolourthought

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

There is no. Thought takes smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought and uses it to make up a story called body.

The actual experience of the body is thought.



Love, Kay
xx

[Stello]

Hello Kay,

And what exactly is it, that could have ‘hard feelings’ or take anything personally?

Taking anything personally would be the job of a person/self, which doesn't even exist.
The misery is that it is known and yet it is only seen, when "I" make an effort and look. Otherwise there is still identification with self. So yes there were hard feelings, but then I looked at them and it turned out that it's nothing.

And what is the AE of ‘conversations’?

Sound, colour and thought.

What is the AE of ‘others’?

smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought

Explain to me what “colour-content” is please?

It's the actual colour and its brightness that is perceived.

Well, have a LOOK. Can you find anyone/anything that has a body?

No.

What is the AE of a ‘body’?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

I find that, even with all the senses that are actually experienced through the body(including the tingling sensation on the soles of my feet, that I can sense when I turn my attention towards this body part), there is no ACTUAL experience of the body. It is thought that takes these sensations and tells the story about a body of mine.

My answer to this question didn't change.
Although, this is like the third time you are asking me that very same question and another answer I gave was:
"There is no. Thought takes smelltastesoundsensationcolourthought and uses it to make up a story called body."
This is also still true.
Whilst I (self) had the feeling you were abandoning me (I know it's not true) I also thought maybe it's best, because I already had the impression that things are getting repetitive and if 'looking, looking, looking' until realization of truth finally manifests or not, is all that can be done, I wouldn't wanna waste your time.

It's like I mentioned above: making an effort to look results in seeing what is. Well, that sounds kind of arrogant (to the nonexistent self).
And maybe I am arrogant. And frustrated. And demotivated. And hurt.
But please don't get me wrong.
I am very grateful for what you do for me.

Thanks Kay.
Love,
Stello

[forgetmenot]

Hey Stello,

It's like I mentioned above: making an effort to look results in seeing what is. Well, that sounds kind of arrogant (to the nonexistent self). And maybe I am arrogant. And frustrated. And demotivated. And hurt.
But please don't get me wrong. I am very grateful for what you do for me.

Thank you for your honesty....I appreciate that immensely. And as a guide, my role is to ensure that what I am pointing to is clear and sometimes the responses appear that clarity isn't quite clear....so it would be very remiss of me not to check, even though it becomes repetitive. But also the repetitiveness is what helps in integrating the 'habit' of LOOKING.

Not much more to LOOK at and then we can have a look at where we are....how does that sound?

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened.
That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

What is memory exactly? – please don’t go to thought explanation, but just let a memory be there, and look at it…

What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say… but what actually is.

Love, Kay
xx

[Stello]

Hello Kay,

What is the memory ‘made of’?

A memory is a story.

WHEN does the memory appear?

The appearance of a memory is triggered by thoughts. It's like the mind automatically scans the brain for memories (stories about the past) whenever a thought arises. Although this happens mostly unconsciously (for example, when fire is seen, memory kind of keeps us from getting burned, without the necessity of a story coming to mind).
But also consciously when we are telling stories from our past; or we are holding a grudge against somebody and when we meet that person, the whole story repeats itself in our minds.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

I can't find a difference between those two. Well, memories always belong to the past. Thoughts don't have to.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

I don't think it is known exactly, but just an assumption that a certain memory thought belongs to something that actually happened.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

A future thought is a fantasy, made of creatively altered memories.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

Just yet, when you asked me to take a look at a future thought, it appeared from nowhere.
On other occasions future thoughts appear when a thought about a current event leads to fear from what this event's consequences may be.
Also when I see something that I want to have for myself some day.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

I can't find a difference between those two. Well, future are always in relation to time. Thoughts don't have to relate to time.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

It is rather a desire or a presumption that something will happen. It's not known.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

Again I can't make out any differences between thoughts, past, present or future, except for the time they're referring to.

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say… but what actually is.

See, I am in a bit of a quandary here. Even when I look at what is actually going on, the moment I try to express my findings through words, I don't know what else to use other than thought, especially when you ask for differences between things.
So I kind of have to go with what I have and hope you will notice if I am loosing track.

Best regards,
Stello

[forgetmenot]

Hi Stello,

What is the memory ‘made of’?

A memory is a story.

What is the AE of ‘memory’?
And what does a story consist of? What in AE is a story made of?

WHEN does the memory appear?

The appearance of a memory is triggered by thoughts. It's like the mind automatically scans the brain for memories (stories about the past) whenever a thought arises. Although this happens mostly unconsciously (for example, when fire is seen, memory kind of keeps us from getting burned, without the necessity of a story coming to mind).
But also consciously when we are telling stories from our past; or we are holding a grudge against somebody and when we meet that person, the whole story repeats itself in our minds.

When a ‘memory’ THOUGHT appears….when is it actually appearing? Can it appear yesterday or tomorrow? Is there a yesterday or tomorrow in AE?

How is it known that the appearing thoughts about a story actually happened in the past, because a thought said so?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

I can't find a difference between those two. Well, memories always belong to the past. Thoughts don't have to.

What is the AE of ‘the past’?
Looking again, what is the difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

I don't think it is known exactly, but just an assumption that a certain memory thought belongs to something that actually happened.

Where is the ‘past’ in AE?

If a thought and image appears now about you eating an ice-cream yesterday, when is that ‘memory’ actually appearing?

How is it known exactly that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

A future thought is a fantasy, made of creatively altered memories.

What exactly is a 'creatively altered memory' and what exactly is it that would be 'creatively altering memories'?
LOOK again. What is a future THOUGHT ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

Just yet, when you asked me to take a look at a future thought, it appeared from nowhere.
On other occasions future thoughts appear when a thought about a current event leads to fear from what this event's consequences may be.
Also when I see something that I want to have for myself some day.

Again, like a ‘memory’ thought, when does a ‘future’ thought appear? Does it appear in the past or the future? Can you have a future thought in the future? When is it actually appearing?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

I can't find a difference between those two. Well, future are always in relation to time. Thoughts don't have to relate to time.

Yes, so is there any difference at all between a thought which thought calls a ‘future’ thought and a thought that refers to the sun shining? Or is a thought just a thought no matter what ‘time’ it is referring to?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

It is rather a desire or a presumption that something will happen. It's not known.

What says that the thought about eating dinner later on tonight is a thought about the future? When is that thought actually appearing?

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

Again I can't make out any differences between thoughts, past, present or future, except for the time they're referring to.

Yes, exactly. There is no difference…only the content of the thought is different, but they are just thoughts as are the content of thoughts, which is more thoughts about thoughts.

Love, Kay
xx

[Stello]

Hello Kay,

What is the AE of ‘memory’?

Thought.

And what does a story consist of?

Also thought.

What in AE is a story made of?

Thought.

When a ‘memory’ THOUGHT appears….when is it actually appearing?

Now.

Can it appear yesterday or tomorrow?

No.

Is there a yesterday or tomorrow in AE?

No.

How is it known that the appearing thoughts about a story actually happened in the past, because a thought said so?

Yes. Just because a thought says so.

What is the AE of ‘the past’?

Thought.

Looking again, what is the difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

No difference.

Where is the ‘past’ in AE?

The past doesn't have a location. Even if it had one, there's no AE of locations.

If a thought and image appears now about you eating an ice-cream yesterday, when is that ‘memory’ actually appearing?

Memories always happen now.

How is it known exactly that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Because thought says so.

What exactly is a 'creatively altered memory' and what exactly is it that would be 'creatively altering memories'?

A creatively altered memory is thought. And the thing creatively altering memories is also thought. It's thought altering thought.

LOOK again. What is a future THOUGHT ‘made of’?

It's made of thought.

Again, like a ‘memory’ thought, when does a ‘future’ thought appear?

Now.

Does it appear in the past or the future?

No. Nothing happens in past or future. Everything happens now.

Can you have a future thought in the future?

No.

When is it actually appearing?

Always now.

Yes, so is there any difference at all between a thought which thought calls a ‘future’ thought and a thought that refers to the sun shining?

No difference at all.

Or is a thought just a thought no matter what ‘time’ it is referring to?

Yes. That is exactly what it is.

What says that the thought about eating dinner later on tonight is a thought about the future?

Thought.

When is that thought actually appearing?

Now.

Thanks Kay.
Regards,
Stello

[forgetmenot]

Hi Stello,

It was funny quickly reading through the questions and answers...it was almost like a rally march 'rant' as I went down the page and the rhythm to "what do we want and when do we want it" appeared along with the reading! lol...well it was funny as I was reading it!

What exactly is a 'creatively altered memory' and what exactly is it that would be 'creatively altering memories'?

A creatively altered memory is thought. And the thing creatively altering memories is also thought. It's thought altering thought.

Can thought alter anything or is there just another thought saying a thought was altered?


There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Any actual experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Please look for the answers many-many times (haha) before replying.

Have a look at the second hand on a clock. It seems to be changing. But can you find 10 seconds ago in actual experience? 5 seconds? 1 second? Keep noticing that change is always only a story about some experience "prior to this". But only *this* can be found. How could there have been another experience at all? Where has it gone to?

Love, Kay
xx

[Stello]

Hello Kay,

it was also fun answering the questions. When I read them first I thought "Oh these are very complex questions and I need to investigate thoroughly. I was just about to go for a long walk looking at what you were asking me to, when it occurred to me in an instant. And then I didn't even have to think about what I was writing. It was like looking-writing, looking-writing, looking-writing and so on. I just had to let it flow."

Please look for the answers many-many times (haha) before replying.

What exactly was wrong with the answers in my last post?
I don't mind if you're being blunt in answering this question.
I will then respond to your questions above.

Bye for now,
Stello

[forgetmenot]

Hi Stello,

What exactly was wrong with the answers in my last post?
I don't mind if you're being blunt in answering this question.
I will then respond to your questions above.

There was nothing wrong with your answers...that is why I moved on to 'time'. Why do you think there was a problem with your answers? If you weren't clear, I would have questioned them and pointed further.

Please look for the answers many-many times (haha) before replying. This is just a light-hearted quip...as we are doing time! Just a joke..a play on time!


Love, Kay
xx

[Stello]

Hello Kay,

well, suspicious thoughts appeared.
See, English is not my native language and I didn't really get the- ''it was almost like a rally march 'rant' as I went down the page and the rhythm to "what do we want and when do we want it" appeared along with the reading!'' -part. Never mind.

Can thought alter anything or is there just another thought saying a thought was altered?

Yes Kay. That's what it is. A thought can't be altered. Not even by thought. Actually thought itself cannot do anything. It just appears and disappears. Then there might be another thought claiming it has just altered the thought before.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?

No.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No.

Any actual experience of one event following another?

No.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

I can't find any movement of the moment.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

I look at this moment, but it was already there. It's not like I look first and then nothing and then "Oh yes there's this moment appearing!" And when I stop looking the moment is still there. The moment's content changes all the time, though. I am confused.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

I can only experience now. So it's kind of everlasting.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

No start and no end.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

More confusion here. There is no past?!

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Only thoughts about time.

Have a look at the second hand on a clock. It seems to be changing. But can you find 10 seconds ago in actual experience? 5 seconds? 1 second? Keep noticing that change is always only a story about some experience "prior to this". But only *this* can be found.

Even more confusion. No I cannot find 10, 5 or 1 seconds ago. It's always just now. It seems that time is just an assumption. It can't actually be experienced. But thought says it must be real.

How could there have been another experience at all? Where has it gone to?

Those two questions are 'killing' me. It is as if it's an unsolvable riddle. AE is "time doesn't exist"


Thank you so much.
Regards,
Stello