Guide to truth

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
During this conversation we've discussed what my expectations are. I'm wondering if you have expectations of this process as well-- like how fast I will see/understand. Could that be true?

Here is what I've learned in this conversation:
I can see with my eyes that I have no self. I can see with my eyes that others do not have selves.
I can see that concepts like mind and truth don't exist.
I understand that I have no control over my body.
I understand that I have no control over my thoughts.

This seems like a lot of understanding! I very much appreciate your helping me to this.

What is not clear: I know this is only a thought, but I feel very entangled in my thought world. You've said several times that I can feel okay about this. But I don't know how to feel okay. Being entangled like that feels like suffering. I'm not expecting a magic pill. You asked what is unclear.

Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

I also have hidden expectations of which I am aware. Its not that I expect you to see fast, I hope so ;). Its more that words like direct experience where covered at the beginning of this inquiry (at least I think). So you asking now confused me. I do have the expectation that if something isnt clear you ask immediately or Ill be posting exsercises which you dont know how to approach. This is also a learning curve for me, and I am also fully responsible for this so this so I maybe should have noticed that too if something wasnt clear. This is what I am going to take with me as a learning.

What is not clear: I know this is only a thought, but I feel very entangled in my thought world. You've said several times that I can feel okay about this. But I don't know how to feel okay. Being entangled like that feels like suffering. I'm not expecting a magic pill. You asked what is unclear.

Let me put it differently, what I meant is that its oke to feel not oke about this. If you feel a certain way than that is the experience your having now.

I really urge you to go into those sensations of suffering and feeling entangled (so focussing more about the bodily sensation). Its about approaching this head on how scary that may sound. And maybe meditation can help as well.

The thing is this gets a bit outside of the conversation and is this gets more about healing instead of seeing that I is just a thought. I dont know if I can help you with that. What are your thoughts on this?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
I could be wrong, but I don't recall you talking about direct experience at the beginning of the conversation. I think we just started in with the questions. Could you write about direct experience now?

I understand now that the thought-snarl-entanglement can be experienced as sensations. In my meditations I've been focusing on that. Noticing when the thoughts take over and going back to the sensations.

The thing is this gets a bit outside of the conversation and is this gets more about healing instead of seeing that I is just a thought. I dont know if I can help you with that. What are your thoughts on this? If you're willing to offer guidance, I'm certainly willing to accept it!
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

I think I have, but its all the same as looking directly into reality instead of thinking. Or looking direct into the experience your having now. So maybe that confused it that Ive used different words for it. Its basically all the basic things except thinking. Seeing, hearing, smelling, and also some thoughts that get most direct towards the experience you are having now (like tension, warmth, cold). We did some exercises on that with the tree, and the describing the sensation simple etc.

The thing is now I dont really know what your wish is and what guidance you would still like?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
I have a vague memory of doing something with a tree. Mostly I remember the watermelon.
For me, all is going well if you just keep asking me the simple questions. Even though it may seem repetitive to you, it's very helpful to me. I always look forward to your posts and questions. This conversation still feels fresh to me.
Are you willing to keep going on that basis?
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Im going to be as honest as I can :).

I notice that I am not giving the full commitment that I want to do for the conversation and for guiding at this moment. I'm postponing my replies for a while now, and isn't in my regular schedule now. I think its best for a new guide to takeover to give you some more guidance and to give you a full commitment . There could be a guide to continue with this post (i asking for that). I hope so , if not, I will let you know via a private message so there is a possibility to open a new thread. For a reaction or expressions of some "deeper" feelings etc Im always open I do prefer if you would do that via a private message!

For me its been a pleasure to give you the first baby steps into seeing.

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
I appreciate your honesty and also the time you've spent with me in this conversation. I have seen many things under your guidance.
I have no idea how to send you a private message.
So how will the new guide appear?
Blessings,
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Ive sent you a personal message. check in your upper right screen with private messages on the forum.

Barry

[forgetmenot]

Hi Carolyn,

My name is Kay and I am happy to continue your guiding. I am not going to read this guiding from the beginning as we guides have different guiding styles. Although you may have covered some ground in this guiding, I will be starting you from the beginning as if this is your first day here. Are you okay with this...if not, I will try and find you another guide .

Love, Kay
xx

[Prahathit]

Hello Kay,
I am so happy to see you! Yes, let's start from the beginning. Which time zone are you in?
Carolyn

[forgetmenot]

Hi Carolyn!

Wonderful! I am in Australia...time zone is UTC+10. Let's start with some housekeeping guidelines

1. Post at least once a day or every second day. If you cannot post, or need more time, let me know.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. ANSWER ONLY FROM ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

This exploration is based on questions. I will ask questions as a means of pointing, but the questions aren’t about finding something unknown, they refer to what is actually already known; not through thinking/thoughts (theories) but by LOOKING. What is LOOKING?

‘LOOKING'’ is just plain looking at what is here right now. It is moving from the conceptual down to the actual experience (AE). The term “Actual Experience” (AE) is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ without the thought stories. So, actual experience (AE) is image/colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought, at face value. What thought says ie, the content of thought is NOT experience. This is evidenced by the fact that you cannot taste the word 'sweet'. So, when looking at actual experience (AE), you are looking at raw experience WITHOUT what thought says ABOUT the raw experience.

Okay....let's get this party started! ;)




Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
And actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking with actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Throughout our exploration, whatever text is in blue are specific questions I would like answered please, and I would like questions to be answered individually. And just remember to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered...thanks :)

Love, Kay
xx

[Prahathit]

Hi Kay,
First of all, thanks for the clear explanation of Actual Experience. I didn't get that last time -- we just jumped into questions. Which led to my being confused for longer than necessary.

I have never learned to use the quotation function on this forum. On my phone I can't seem to copy and paste the blue question. So as it's late tonight, I'll try to reconstruct the apple question.

When I look at the Apple (Apple insists this be capitalized!) I see color and shape. There are also thoughts swirling around. The concept "Apple" cannot be seen or otherwise perceived in direct experience.

Thanks again for showing up!

Love,
Carolyn

[forgetmenot]

Hi Carolyn,

First of all, thanks for the clear explanation of Actual Experience. I didn't get that last time -- we just jumped into questions. Which led to my being confused for longer than necessary.

I am glad that the explanation is clear to you…we will continue looking at what AE is with the exercise posted below. :)

I have never learned to use the quotation function on this forum. On my phone I can't seem to copy and paste the blue question. So as it's late tonight, I'll try to reconstruct the apple question.

How about you number the questions then? That way we keep the posts in some sort of order, and one that is easily to follow and read.

When I look at the Apple (Apple insists this be capitalized!) I see color and shape. There are also thoughts swirling around. The concept "Apple" cannot be seen or otherwise perceived in direct experience.

Wonderful! Yes, there is only colour + label + thoughts about an apple, but there is no actual experience of an apple. If you have a look at ‘shapes’, just notice that shapes are nothing but a particular pattern of colour as well.


Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label each experience simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down all experiences into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go.

Thanks again for showing up!

You’re welcome :)

Love, Kay
xx

[Prahathit]

Hi Kay,
I had such a busy day here that I couldn't focus on this exercise (which I really like). Tomorrow will be quiet and I'll report in in the eve. I'm on San Diego, calif, by the way.
Love,
Carolyn

[forgetmenot]

Hey Carolyn...no probs...thank you for letting me know!

Love, Kay
xx