Guide to truth

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Yes thininkg just happens same as sounds just happens.

Can you find/ see an I in a person when you look at someone. Or is ther just the movement plus the thought labels I/ you?

What is I?

Barry



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[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
Can you find/ see an I in a person when you look at someone. When I look with my eyes, like a baby, I don't see an "I" in a person.

Or is ther just the movement plus the thought labels I/ you? There are colors and shapes and sounds. Plus the labels.

What is I? "I" is a thought.

Your questions are great, Barry. I appreciate them.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Yes this is looking, and I is just a thought. It was never there in direct experience, similar to Santa Claus. Have you ever seen Santa Claus?

Further,

Is there such a thing as outside yourself or inside yourself?

And what are the things you now feel unsure, uncertain about?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
Is there such a thing as outside yourself or inside yourself? When I look with my eyes there is no inside. Therefore, looked at this way, there is no inside or outside. I do have a question though-- what about the physical sensations that seem to be inside the body?

And what are the things you now feel unsure, uncertain about? I can't answer this question. I don't know.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Inside and outside are thoughts. There is simply the experience happening now all at the same time plus a thought label.

If you look now where do you begin and where do you end?

This inquiry is about seeing through the thought I. You know if you have seen that I is a thought. You need to confirm if you are clear on that. Are you?

Barry


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[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,

If you look now where do you begin and where do you end? In order to answer this I need a definition of "you." Since we have established that there is no "I," what do you mean by "you?"

This inquiry is about seeing through the thought I. You know if you have seen that I is a thought. You need to confirm if you are clear on that. Are you? When I look with my eyes, I see that there is no "I," no self.

Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

What I meant was that "you" are not to be found anywhere along those lines in the same way that inside and outside are not to be found. This nowness is all happening at the same time, and in a way thats all "you" , you are just not doing it. The mystery is simply creating itself.

At this moment, I dont know what questions to ask you so here are some general ones:

If I tell you there is no self, there never was , its simply happening, how do you react now to this statement?

And:

If I would ask you the final question now (about control, about I, about self), do you imagine that you are clear?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,

If I tell you there is no self, there never was , its simply happening, how do you react now to this statement? This sounds logical to me now.

And:

If I would ask you the final question now (about control, about I, about self), do you imagine that you are clear? I feel clear that the self is a thought. But there is still a feeling of being in control.

Last night in the middle of the night thoughts came rolling along like a river as they usually do and I thought, "What the hell is this? What's aware of these thoughts?" It was obvious that I wasn't creating them or causing them. Nor could I stop them.

Your questions are so helpful to me. I hope you are willing to keep asking them. Even though my answers may be short, the questions are with me all day long.
Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Thats approaching the thinking way again. Those questions wont get you anywhere.

You need to look with baby eyes. Let those thought be. There also a part of the reality.

Maybe go look into the sensations at night instead instead of running away with thoughts.

What is the feeling of control.. if you look at it and feel it?

Barry





What is a feeling of being in control? Can y


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[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,

What is the feeling of control.. if you look at it and feel it? I see now, when I look with my eyes, that the feeling of being in control is a thought. I didn't see that before because I was looking with thought.

Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Yes its simply a thought interpretation and when closely looked at the process ther is no decider to be found. It simply happens.

Thinkihg is higly overrated in our culture and doesnt mean shit if honestly looked at. Its just labelling a reality wich is a mystery in itself. The more you look the more you will find that this could be true and the less investement youll be putting on them. Dont push them away and in a way become sort of friends with thougts and youll do fine.

Personally I dont think to much anymore. I really dont see any point in it. I still use the capability of thinking for creating certain life projecte wich I enjoy. But other than that no. Thats took some " time" and honest looking at the beginning and also middel but at the end of the line it was well worth the struggle.

If i where you Id focus more on experiencing bodily sensations as a practice for healing than on the thoughts itself.

To see where we are:

What changed for you now with regards to I to when we started this conversation? What made you shift?

Barry


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[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,
For a couple of years I've been aware that thoughts don't reflect reality and that they don't serve much purpose. And yet, I still get involved with them and still have a belief that the world they create is real. This conversation has helped to weaken that belief.

If i where you Id focus more on experiencing bodily sensations as a practice for healing than on the thoughts itself. This is a good pointer.

To see where we are:

What changed for you now with regards to I to when we started this conversation?
When we started this conversation it really felt like there was an "I" inside. Now I understand that this feeling is made up of thoughts. That even if I feel like an I is inside, even if I believe it, that doesn't matter.

What made you shift?
I think the most important understanding has been that of looking with the eyes instead of with thoughts. All concepts disappear when looked at with the eyes, including the concept of self.

Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Oke, so lets focus on the first part than.

I still get involved with them and still have a belief that the world they create is real

How can you get "involved" with thoughts? Isnt that simply another thought? Thoughts are just as much part of the experience as sights.

Wanting to change this of wanting an outcome that you shouldnt get involved with thoughts only makes this process more difficult. What is happening is happening, and if have a lot of thoughts its oke.

And

Yes, you THINK that the world they create is real. So everytime you have this belief, or you think a thought is real you simply LOOK can I find this thought in the direct experience. How do you react to this?

Barry

[Prahathit]

Hi Barry,

How can you get "involved" with thoughts? Isnt that simply another thought? Yes, this is another thought. Thoughts are just as much part of the experience as sights. What do you mean by this? Could you please explain further.


Yes, you THINK that the world they create is real. So everytime you have this belief, or you think a thought is real you simply LOOK can I find this thought in the direct experience. How do you react to this? No, I'm not able to see the thought. So does that mean thoughts aren't real? Does it mean they don't exist?

Besides seeing, there are the other senses, right? Hearing, tasting, feeling, smelling-- those are direct experiences, aren't they?

I've been doing as you suggested, paying more attention to the bodily sensations than the thoughts. I keep having to bring myself back to that focus.

Carolyn

[bth]

Hi Carolyn,

Im getting a little confused now since I thought we had covered these things like direct experience and thinking a while ago. I dont have an idea now where I am with you but maybe thats the language barrier

Thoughts happen. They are happening "real" there just learned labels (so in that sense are not real, not to be found when looked at), and there is no one doing the thinking...

Yes that is what we mean in this inquiry with direct experience. We need some language to cover this conversation.

What are the things that are unclear about this writing? can you confirm this for yourself.

Barry