See through illusions and live from clarity

[gkspp]

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
I'm here seeking help to see through the illusions (you say) that are blocking my vision of clarity and my experience of happiness. i respect the idea and intent behind this forum. I think it is revolutionary and could potentially end the problem of ignorance, seeking and unnecessary suffering.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?
Like i mentioned above, I wish to see through the illusions that are blocking my vision of clarity and my experience of happiness. Whatever is offered here may or may not help. But from what i know, such an arrangement of a dialogue between a Seer and a seeker is a tried and tested formula that has been around since ancient times. So i expect the exchange and the pointing to be a productive one and lead to a visually intuitive experience of clarity and permanent understanding of the Truth.

What is your past experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've been a long time seeker of what the scriptures and the sages have called - one's natural state. I've read books by popular Gurus such as Nisargadatta Maharaj, Siddharameshwar Maharaj, Dattatreya, Osho, Ramana Maharshi, Adi Da Samraj and many more.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?: 11

[Benjobanjo]

Hello gkspp! My name is Ben and I am happy to be your guide. What would you like me to call you?

This should be a focused inquiry so please try and post everyday if you can. No pressure but this process is more effective if you have a certain level of commitment. I am in England so potentially we may be posted several times a day.

If you are happy with that then I would like to begin by addressing your expectations;

I wish to see through the illusions that are blocking my vision of clarity and my experience of happiness.

Can you clarify a little more about what you mean here?
What do you mean by clarity?
In what way do you expect happiness to be different?

Kind Regards
Ben

[gkspp]

Hi Ben. Thank you very much. You can call me Gk. :)

They are just words i picked up over the years from reading various spiritual texts. By clarity i'm referring to that which the Seers say is hiding in plain sight and is my true nature. I wish to experience myself as i really am without having to take someone else's word for it. In short, i'm looking for self or no self realization (whatever one prefers to call it).

Coming to your other question, if it is indeed that seeking and suffering are results of ignorance/ illusion, then i expect the resulting happiness (from realization/ clear seeing) to be that of permanent relief.

[Benjobanjo]

Ok Lovely. Thanks Gk!
So, its great that you have read text on this subject before so you have had some exposure to the sort of thing that we look at here but it is extremely important that you now make this inquiry a fresh one from your own perspective. Please try not to refer back to what you have read in the past and for the while we are working together I recommend that you discontinue reading anything or watching anything that is not on LU. This is only to assist in focus.

The results of this process vary. Please do not have any expectations that your life will be vastly different. The show will still continue! There will still be thoughts and feelings, both good and bad, pleasurable and uncomfortable that will continually arise. The difference will be that you will be able to see that there is no owner of these and therefore they are allowed to come and go as they naturally do.

So I suppose that we could start by a little observation. Can we choose to be happy all of the time?
If there was an independent, autonomous self surely this would be an easy thing to do.

Let’s continue with this question;

Is there anything that exists outside of your direct experience in this moment?

Kind Regards
Ben

[gkspp]

Yes Ben. Thank you once again. I'm past the obsessive reading and youtubing phase. So you have my full attention.

No. Nothing i'm seeing is outside my field of perception. All that exists/ observed is well within my "experiencing" of it.

[Benjobanjo]

Wonderful!

Great answers. Looks like there is true focus for the inquiry!

What is the reaction to the following statements:

There is no "you" and never had been.
All there is and all there has ever been is sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation overlaid with thought.
There is no you to experience and there is no you to understand.

Ben

[gkspp]

Thank you Ben. :)

Without taking into account whatever i've read on the subject, i'd say:

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Because I am and I have been. This is no doubt about this.

Yes that's true.

I am conscious and aware. And i'm experiencing it all. And as i'm experiencing it, i'm understanding it as well.

[Benjobanjo]

Hello Gk,

Yes that's true.

So just to make things clearer can you use the quote button in order for me to know what you are referring to? I guess that you are referring to;

All there is and all there has ever been is sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation overlaid with thought.

We can work with this. So you agree that when you hear a sound is there just sound and then a thought overlaying to say 'I am hearing that sound'? Same applies with colour, smell, taste and sensation, right? Stay with this and observe it deeper and notice that all of this happens with or without that added thought. Compare the clarity of the experience of these sensory inputs with and without the thought overlay....

Take your time to observe this phenomena (each sense door in turn) and report back in detail for me please.

I am conscious and aware. And i'm experiencing it all. And as i'm experiencing it, i'm understanding it as well.

Does this I that you are talking about have a colour? a smell? a taste? a sensation? Tell me what do you find when looking for the I that is experiencing it it all? Do you have any direct experience of this entity?

Thanks
Ben

[gkspp]

Yes Ben, I was referring to the same thing. There is the clear experiencing of sounds, color, thoughts (mental narrative) and sensations. Sounds are heard, sensations are felt and when poked with questions like "who's hearing?", "who's seeing", thought assertions like "I am hearing", "i am seeing" soon appear from one's mental narrative.

Does this I that you are talking about have a colour? a smell? a taste? a sensation? Tell me what do you find when looking for the I that is experiencing it it all? Do you have any direct experience of this entity?

No it has no color, taste, smell or sensation. It is only a thought assertion that It is this body. It is referring to itself as this body and not to itself as a separate entity apart from this body. On its own it has no existence.

[Benjobanjo]

Wonderful!

Sounds are heard, sensations are felt and when poked with questions like "who's hearing?", "who's seeing", thought assertions like "I am hearing", "i am seeing" soon appear from one's mental narrative.

So can you see that this experience occurs either with the narrative or without the narrative. It doesn't need to be there and if anything, one can BE the actual experience without having to be someone experiencing the experience. After all you have answered that question next - where is the self having the experience?

Do you have any direct experience of this entity?

No it has no color, taste, smell or sensation. It is only a thought assertion that It is this body. It is referring to itself as this body and not to itself as a separate entity apart from this body. On its own it has no existence.

So can you see that the experiencer is nothing but a thought or a collection of thoughts? Like a thought overlay that doesn't need to be there?

Can a thought (or a collection of thoughts) have a thought?
Can a thought (or a collection of thoughts) own a sensation?
Can a thought (or a collection of thoughts) smell an odour?
Can a thought (or a collection of thoughts) hear a sound?
Can a thought (or a collection of thoughts) observe light?

Take your time and look. Look. for. your. self.

A further experiment;
Where does all of this occur? Where does thinking occur? where does sight occur? Where does taste occur? Where does sound occur?

Kind Regards
Ben

[Benjobanjo]

Hi Gk,

How are you? Have you been busy or have you been having difficulty with the exercise? Is There anything I can do to help?

Ben

[gkspp]

Hi Ben. I'm back 🙂