Not quite there yet

[Jay3008]

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?:
Someone recommended it on the Internet and I thought I'd take I look because I have an interest in non duality and have been studying it as a subject for several years now. I have also purchased your book.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?:
I'm really not sure what to expect from this and don't really know if I am in fact looking for anything. I understand that seeking involves me as the Seeker. I pretty much understand and non-duality from an intellectual point of view but still find real self that is understanding it. Tricky isn't it

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?:
I started with meditation several years ago, probably about 20 now. Then came across eckhart tolle and since then have read just about everything there is available regarding non duality

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what?: 8

[Nexus]

Hey Jay,

Welcome to our little forum. My name is Philip I'm 61 and I'd be happy to take you through a few pointers.

Just a little qualification about my approach in case there are any expectations (of course there are). I very rarely instruct or prescribe practice or process in this enquiry....I will usually only unpack or attempt to disentangle what has been said as a way of pointing to something on the other side of the limitations of language........ And anything I put forward can only be from my experience..and this will not solve your problems because what you think they are is just what is and there is no you to own them.

I pretty much understand and non-duality from an intellectual point of view but still find real self that is understanding it. Tricky isn't it

Having said that........and just to be clear....there is no letting go required here and there is no intellectual understanding vs embodiment in this enquiry. What we are getting to here is the fundamentals of the fundamentals. Jed McKenna often referred to it as the 'truth talk in the dream state' and this is the idea that this enquiry is about looking behind something, getting somewhere, or working something out. Not only is that impossible but it is not necessary, and there is no one to achieve such a thing... there is just happening- happening..What you are yearning for or seeking is already the case.... there is only this... there is only GOD... there is only enlightenment. It is about seeing this for what it is.....we think we are seeing the movie but it is only ever the screen which is always as it is......... immutable and unchanged.....flavoured by image and colour. The screen is a metaphor for knowingness and in that knowingness everything appears and is known.

Tell me about your experience in all this........

Cheers Philip

[Jay3008]

Hi Philip, and thanks for your reply. My name is John and I am about to board a plane for Poland until the weekend. While I am away I intend to read the gateway book so will speak further on my return. Regards John

[Nexus]

Hey John,

Ok Sweet! That was me chapter one!

Philip

[Jay3008]

Hi Philip. I'm back from my travels. Where do you suggest we start this thing ?

[Nexus]

Hey John,

Where do you suggest we start this thing ?

................Its weird this question has got me stumped. (cricket term). Where do you start...do you need to start anything? And thats it! this is as it is. I find the biggest confusion people have in here is the seeing of the difference between 'this' and what is happening in 'this' or that which is flavouring 'this'. I mean 'this' of course includes the happening, there is no separation and yet there is belief that the happening is what is important to the well being of 'this', the improvement of the happening is the reward for all the good spiritual work and the victory over anger and fear. The arising of resistance to what is as a desire to improve or change is inevitable in this experience it is the seeing of it for what it is that is the freedom. Freedom is just experiencing that what was once manifesting and acting as resistance as just another thought passing through. What we refer to in here as 'self' is nothing more than belief in a separate entity that has been assumed to be the source, controller and thinker of all this, and not seeing that it is just not remotely possible. This seeing is so simple and obvious it can be easily overlooked....and thats ok because all there is is liberation...its all enlightenment, theres nothing to boast about and no one to boast for, thats the irony.

[Jay3008]

Hi Philip and thank you for your help. I'll do my best to explain where I feel I am at the moment. I think I understand that this is in fact a huge paradox that can't really be explained using words so this is really a vague notion of how I feel about things.

If I investigates there is definitely still a fair bit of seeking going on. Every day I will read or listen to some non-duality text, I suppose waiting for that one thing that will unlock the door.

I think I understand that there is nothing to do, it's all oneness and that the sense of self is simply an illusion. There is not much argument intellectually in that regard.

However, what seems to happen is that there still seems to be a me trying to realise life without me. It's like I'm trying to find 'What is' when really there is only 'what is' that doesn't need finding. The sense of self does not seem to disappear by it's self and I'm somehow left with the feeling of me trying to get rid of it. It very much feels like I'm going round in circles.

I suppose also that there is a vague expectation of something tangible happening although I'm not really sure what I expect to happen. Probably more of an indication that something has been accomplished rather than any bells and whistles.

[Nexus]

Hey John,

Sorry I've taken so long to reply I've had some heavy work commitments.

If I investigates there is definitely still a fair bit of seeking going on. Every day I will read or listen to some non-duality text, I suppose waiting for that one thing that will unlock the door.

Yes waiting for something seems to be a natural thing to do and it makes sense in all other investigations but this. Waiting can happen no problem... but really everything is as it could be and nothing more and nothing less, so the waiting makes no sense and yet it happens. Its not that waiting is wrong its just that there is nothing to wait for because its already here and complete and there is no one to wait and no one to benefit. Take the invitation to allow this to be true at the most fundamental level, that is the end of seeking.

it's all oneness and that the sense of self is simply an illusion.

. Its not so much that 'its all oneness" its that there is truly only one thing and that cannot be understood....and this is not to be picky on the language you use..however its all we have in this arena.

me trying to realise life without me

. self or no self thing can be a distraction also in that one starts trying to identify this illusion and trying to get rid of it. At the end of the day the closet expression is that this is IT....this is all there is. We can call it this or that or prefer that over this... and this is me-ness and that is non-me-ness and it really is only trying to nail down the elusive nature of it and it does not even have a nature so it can't be grasped. The seeing of this is so direct that no guidance or direction can even point you in the right direction, because it's happening right now....yes this....this is it. It may not be what you thought it should be but this is it .It was always there in your face...so to speak but it was overlooked.

that something has been accomplished rather than any bells and whistles.

Yes the seeing is the accomplishment...if it can be called that because thats all that is needed. The bells and whistles is the freedom to be just this and nothing more what ever that may look like.

Philip

[Jay3008]

Hi Philip.

Hope you've had a pleasant time over the Christmas holidays and thanks for your input on this. It is helping me a lot.

Words are difficult and trying to say I think I'm getting it isn't accurate, but I do feel like there are glimpses of what is being pointed too. BUT then this pattern returns... like while this is all going on... lurking faintly, implicitly in the background like an addiction, is the reference to Jed Mckenna (as an example )....new one on me... don't know of him... maybe just maybe that will do it. So I have to look at him (which did help by the way) but where does it end.back to seeking. I am realising that I'm trying to find answers to something that is beyond understanding and when I read your previous reply I know all the direction needed is contained within those words.

To try and describe, futile I know, it's a bit like I'm trying to figure out what an orange tastes like by reading about it or watching you tube videos of people trying to describe it, without ever tasting one myself.

I'm also noticing there is some vague resistance or reluctance or maybe even fear involved that I haven't been aware of before. Anyway I shall persevere or maybe that's exactly what I shouldn't do.

Thanks again


John

[Nexus]

Hi John,

Happy New Year ...as they say.

I think that what needs to be clear is that this enquiry requires no getting it or understanding as you would normally view it...that is not required because what you are looking for is already the case and what is trying to understand is just life living as this in this appearance. Fear will always come up it is programmed in the memory response of the organism....nothing is not allowed, how could it be. The orange example is a good one...why would you need to figure out what orange tastes like when you can just taste it.... and there it is, the taste is the experience of taste that is real.... anything else is speculation or words or thoughts...interpretation.

I'm also noticing there is some vague resistance or reluctance or maybe even fear involved that I haven't been aware of before. Anyway I shall persevere or maybe that's exactly what I shouldn't do.

Joey Lotte often says that doing nothing is what is really required in all this... because the source of suffering is resistance to what is and the only way to unravel resistance is by doing nothing. What Joey is actually inviting you to do though is to enquire into and become aware of how you are trying to get rid of or avoid this experience right now. And that is why your are in here.... at this forum, thats what's really motivating you... a solution to suffering what else could it be? This is a stopping...not as a doing or even non-doing it is just a seeing.... that you are at war with this and its not about winning the war but stopping the fight all together....you can't think your way out of your problems , you've tried that and it doesn't work. So its not about stopping the resistance that would be a thing.... its just no longer resisting but the resistance may still continue along with the fear and anger and love and happiness......happening happening. Not to you or by you but this as you..which is still just this and this is all allowed is as it is because it is already. Lots of words I know...thats all I've got in here.
Cheers Philip