Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

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Jett
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Re: Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

Postby Jett » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:57 pm

Hi Damon,

My apologies for the delay. I've just mainly been observing. I hope you've been well?
How does clinging appear, really?
What is clinging?
Clinging appears as a feeling, a wish by the mind for something. A desire for a certain experience, or a certain object. Clinging, like everything else, isn't actually anything. It has no substance because it is constantly changing. One day I'm clinging to the idea of having an awakening experience, the next I'm clinging to the idea of travelling to Canada. There is nothing that I can point to that is 'clinging', just a bunch of sensations and thoughts arising that are labelled as such.
What is a self and what does it mean to invest in one?
What is the I that is able to get caught up in something?
The self is a phantom. There is nothing real about it, it's just a farce. All I've seen - and I've been observing hard - is how things are constantly in flux. There a feeling arises of being someone, there arises a seeing of things as just fleeting and constantly renewing, sometimes there is a feeling that someone has 'lived' all these experiences, then other times it is seen that literally only this moment is happening, and all things, that are happening are happening now. History is false, memories are false, things that have passed are false, because what proof is there for any of it having happened? Right now is what is, and that's that. Any idea of a self, arises now, and in the next moment, it might be gone, but in both instances, there is nothing permanent, nothing solid, nothing that lasts.
Is unfreedom ever actually real?
Has it ever been?
No, and neither is freedom. They're just concepts. Sometimes seeing how nothing is permanent seems like the ultimate freedom, then suddenly fear arises, nothing is permanent! Fear of not existing, of being wiped out of existence. Its a joke because nothing ever existed in the first place. Neither one matters, things arise, they pass, what happens will happen, and in a moment, it won't be.

Nothing has ever been. What is the evidence for things having been? This moment? But then its gone as well and you get another one. Things are startlingly present.

I cut up an apple the other day, and I looked at the slices and realised that that was it. The concept I had of there being an 'apple' wasn't true. There was just all the components of the thing I called 'apple', and now it was cut up and changed. And soon I would eat it and it would be changed again. Where was the apple? It wasn't there.

Yours in constant change =P

Jett :)

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

Postby Damon Kamda » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:16 am

Hi Jett,

It certainly looks as if you might have seen what it is we are pointing to here at this forum. Would you agree?

Is anything still unclear?
One day I'm clinging to the idea of having an awakening experience, the next I'm clinging to the idea of travelling to Canada
Hmmm.. so you are saying there is no clinging because one day you cling to this, the next day to that?

Yet the deeper question here is: who or what is doing the clinging?

To whom do these "sensations and thoughts" arise?

Let's say a five-year old (ok: maybe a ten-year old) would ask you about this- how would you explain the insight to them?

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Jett
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Re: Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

Postby Jett » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:35 pm

Hi Damon,
It certainly looks as if you might have seen what it is we are pointing to here at this forum. Would you agree?
Yes, I would agree. I've had a quiet couple days just watching, looking etc. Seeing if there's anyone around to control all this, there isn't.
Is anything still unclear?
No. In fact, I feel like I don't really have any questions about this anymore.
Hmmm.. so you are saying there is no clinging because one day you cling to this, the next day to that?
No, I was just saying, clinging, like all things, is fleeting. And the fact it is so fleeting and transient means it has no actual existence or substance.
Yet the deeper question here is: who or what is doing the clinging?
No, one. There is no one at all. No doer, no thinker, no 'being', so soul, no nothing. There can't be. It's impossible.
To whom do these "sensations and thoughts" arise?
They arise in emptiness. In no one. There is no one thinking the thoughts, and there certainly isn't anyone to receive them. Nothing belongs to anyone. A thought, a bad mood, and experience. There is no one for it to belong to.
Let's say a five-year old (ok: maybe a ten-year old) would ask you about this- how would you explain the insight to them?
Hm, well I have a four year old neice. Perhaps I can try on her sometime? :D

Presuming they were old enough to have grown out of imaginary friends, I would use that as an example. 'You know how you have had imaginary friends? You play with them, and talk to them, but in the end, you know they're not real? That's how it is with you as well. You know your name is Daisy, and you think that's who you are, and who things happen to. But in fact, Daisy is a lot like one of your imaginary friends. If you look really hard, you won't be able to find a Daisy at all.

Jett =)

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

Postby Damon Kamda » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:48 pm

Hi Jett,
No. In fact, I feel like I don't really have any questions about this anymore.
Ok, good.

Now, it's somewhat customary at this point to introduce the following list of questions for you to ponder. If you could go into some details about them, I'll run this post by some of my fellow guides here:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Thanks!

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Jett
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Re: Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

Postby Jett » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:32 am

Hi Damon,
Now, it's somewhat customary at this point to introduce the following list of questions for you to ponder. If you could go into some details about them, I'll run this post by some of my fellow guides here:
Awesome, no worries and thanks :)
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No there isn't. There can't be. The 'I' is just a label that we put on experiences that happen. It tricks us into thinking we own them. We think the Self is a permanent, unchanging aspect of our experience. When you look, however, there is no self at all. Just experiences, constantly changing. There is no one there to say 'this is happening to me'. Experiences happen, they rise and fall, and there is no self in any of it.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of the separate self, as far as I can tell, starts as soon as we are given a name. As we grow people apply this label to us again and again until we 'learn' that that is our label, that is us, that is who it corresponds to. Similarly, because of the way language is, and because of the way we are taught to think, we grow up fully believing that things happen to 'us', that we somehow hoard these experiences and own them. We collect memories of things that have happened to 'us', we develop beliefs and opinions based on what happens and we fully believe that these opinions and beliefs are 'ours' just as we think we somehow own experiences.

This is false. In reality, the label we are given is just that, a label. We believe it points to a separate self, a person, that it is proof that we are something solid, real, unchanging. Upon inspection though, a with the help of an amazing LU guide, we start to see that alll this 'selfing' actually has no purpose. Its more a reflex than anything. There is no person organising and deciding what happens, things happen without any input from a 'self', thoughts arise without a person thinking them, opinions are formed automatically in reaction to circumstances. There is no self direction the show, its just illusion.

Further than that, things aren't even what they seem. Believe in a self and you believe that things are solid and permanent. Poke at experience a bit and you begin to see how nothing is a 'thing'. Things are in constant flux, things are transient, and they aren't things but rather experiences. What we call and apple isn't an apple. Its the smoothness, the taste, the smell. But from the viewpoint of an I we think that these things equal an apple. That the taste, the smell, the texture all equals 'apple', like somewhere the concept of a perfect apple exists. In reality, all there is is the taste, smell, and texture. No apple, just constantly changing experiences. They arise, they pass. They leave no trace.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
Like all things it is constantly changing. There were no big flashes of satori, no celestial lights, no angels singing. It was far more subtle than that, but infinitely more powerful. Just an actual understanding, constantly confirmed by experience, of the transcience of all phenomena. I can see now, the constantly changing nature of things. Its a bit like the 'cores' have been removed from things. In the sense that when I believed in being a person, I always imagined the self as residing in either the head, of the centre of the body. A kind of phantom essence. I imagined the same of other objects. There was a phantom apple residing in an apple, there was a river, but the 'essence' of that river was somewhere in it. But now its like those have been removed and I see things for what they are. Just experiences arising. As a result, things are lighter, they have an refreshing emptiness about them.

I've also realised the beauty of direct experience. I used to assume so much, basing so many things on assumptions. I can hear a voice over there, that means there is a person, I can remember going to this store that means I've done it. I know of a place called Japan so that means it exists. I don't know how to say this without sounding like a total loon, but there is no evidence for anything apart from what I am directly experiencing now. It sounds weird but let me put it like this. This is. What is happening right now is and there is nothing else. That's the only thing, and since this is not ever the same for even one millisencond,

Its like, I was so wrapped up in questions like, 'what happens when I die?', 'how can I have an awakening experience like the masters?', 'whhat is truth?' etc. I was missing the truth that is constantly playing out right in front of me. This is it. This is all. These questions don't matter to me because this is, right here, right now. The rest is just concepts.

I read a passage in a book where someone asked, I think, Ramana, what happens when we die. And before it would have frustrated me because it was like he was avoiding the question. The student asked what happens when a woman dies and Ramana kept asking the student, what of it? What concern is it of yours? Eventually he gave an answer more directed to the whole karmic thing, but it was like, for the first time, I got what he was getting at. What concern is death to me? Its just a concept, arising now.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Well as you know Damon, its hasn't been a case of big explosive realisations for me. More a gradual culmination of a lot of looking. But I guess the main thing for me, this whole conversation has been firstly, the seeing and experiencing of the utter transience of phenomena. And secondly, the exercises we did on dissecting things i.e. seeing how tasting, touching, and texture does not an apple make. Gradually, things have fallen apart. In the best way possible :)
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Decisions, intention, free will, choice and control. All these concepts rely on there being a separate self to work. As there is no self, there is no one to make decisions, no one to exercise control. Things happen in that decisions are not made by a self, but they are made automatically in response to things being experienced. Even though no one thinks thoughts, they still arise for most of us. A thought arises that I not like the place in which I work, this may cause steps to be taken to retrain and get a better job. There is no doer needed for any of this. Thoughts arise in response to experience, they are evaluated, and action arises in response to this.

In terms of what I am responsible for. Technically there is no self to be responsible for anything. However, that doesn't mean that all my responsibilities will be snubbed. In response to the duties I am given, actions will automatically be taken to carry those out. I am helping raise my niece. Just because there is no self it doesn't mean I would sudden;y abandon her, or just not put any effort into raising her well. Rather, I will raise her as is needed, just without believing in the illusion that there is a phantom I responsible for it. When raising needs to be done, it will be done, and actions will arise in response to what the situation calls for.

Thanks Damon :)

Jett

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

Postby Damon Kamda » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:44 pm

Hi Jett,

Wow, thanks for taking the time to write that beautiful post. Seems quite clear to me that the essential point of this forum has hit home, so to speak. This shedding of layers is a process that will go on and on. It' s quite beautiful really.
These questions don't matter to me because this is, right here, right now. The rest is just concepts.
Yes!

Isn't it funny that the end of seeking doesn't mean that we have found what we were looking for?
Seeking ends because the questions we've been asking stop making sense. The questions dissolve.

I will ask some fellow guides to read our exchange here and see if they have any additional questions. If so, I'll post them here...

After that, you'll get access to some other parts of this forum as well as our facebook community (if you're into that sort of thing).

Enjoy your weekend!

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Jett
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Re: Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

Postby Jett » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:06 am

Hi Damon,
Wow, thanks for taking the time to write that beautiful post. Seems quite clear to me that the essential point of this forum has hit home, so to speak. This shedding of layers is a process that will go on and on. It' s quite beautiful really.
Thank you for reading :) Yes, that is the impression I'm getting. Its like, layers will continue to shed, but all the urgency has been taken out of it now. I am just enjoying the ride, so to speak.
Isn't it funny that the end of seeking doesn't mean that we have found what we were looking for?
It is! Its like the Rolling Stones lyric, 'you can't always get what you want. But sometimes you just might find, you get what you need' =) You get what you get in the end, and usually it is what you need.
Seeking ends because the questions we've been asking stop making sense. The questions dissolve.
That's such a good way of putting it +) I love that Damon, perfect!
I will ask some fellow guides to read our exchange here and see if they have any additional questions. If so, I'll post them here...

After that, you'll get access to some other parts of this forum as well as our facebook community (if you're into that sort of thing).
Thank you for doing that :) Let me know. And yes, I would absolutely be interested in Facebook, other parts of the forum etc. :)

Jett =)

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Damon Kamda
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Re: Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

Postby Damon Kamda » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:31 pm

Hi Jett,

The other guides have no further questions for you. There's some administrative issues, so it's taking a bit longer to process than usual, but you will shortly have access to the "Unleashed" part of this forum as well as our FB groups.

I'm no longer active on Facebook, but I can be contacted here on this board.

It's been a pleasure working with you here. Enjoy the ride!

Warm regards!

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Jett
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Re: Looking for guidance - want to make progress!

Postby Jett » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:31 am

Hi Damon,
The other guides have no further questions for you. There's some administrative issues, so it's taking a bit longer to process than usual, but you will shortly have access to the "Unleashed" part of this forum as well as our FB groups.
No worries, and glad to hear it :)
I'm no longer active on Facebook, but I can be contacted here on this board.

It's been a pleasure working with you here. Enjoy the ride!
Its been a pleasure for me too! Thank you, so much, from the bottom of my heart for guiding me! =D I have so much gratitude for you Damon, and I can't thank you enough :)

Jett :)


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