eternal prayer

[illusions13]

Hello. I am back.
Bit under the weather.
Will get back to the qs etc soon.
Its been a while so I am a bit lost on it but will try get back into it properly
I think the main thing would be to respond from experience rather than thinking too much!

Will get back soon, thanks for your patience. :)

[BleedIntoOne]

Hello EP,
Nice to hear from you. No worries on the response. Hope you're feeling better soon!

I'm actually going to be traveling a bit myself, and have had some unexpected life stuff come up aside from that I have to attend to, so I'm going to have you work with the guide who brought me through this process in the interim. Her name is Ilona and she's actually the co-creator of Liberation Unleashed so you'll be in the best possible hands moving forward.

I'll of course check back in when I'm able to on your progress.

Wishing you all good things moving forward!

- Chris

[illusions13]

oh ok.
Well, I was rather comfortable interacting with you! :)

Thank you for putting me in able hands, I will continue the same way with Ilona as I did with you.

Before you dive into your life stuff, please let me know, do I need to wait for her to write to me or do I just carry on with our last conversation?
How do I go about this now?

Thanks for everything so far, its been a wonderful experience working on this with you.
I hope you are back soon and we can chat again.
All the best.

Cheers!

[BleedIntoOne]

Hi Ep,
Thank you for the kind words. It's been a real pleasure exploring all that we have together! But again, Ilona is amazing and I have no doubt you'll appreciate her very skilled guidance through this process.

I believe she'll look through our thread and pick things up here we left off. She may revisit a few things we already covered and approach them from a slightly different angle, but whatever she does, I promise it will always be in the best interest of helping you see through the illusion of a separate self!

I will check in as well when I'm able to, just to take a peak at how things are going. As I said before, you've done some great work here. Please stick with it and you'll surely crash the gate.

Love and gratitude,
Chris

[illusions13]

Thanks for being there Chris.
Truly appreciate it.

Will wait for Ilona to write.
And also to catch up with you soon.

Thanks & gratitude. :)

[BleedIntoOne]

All love EP :)

[Ilona]

Hi Ep,
I'm here to assist as Chris said. i haven't read the thread.
can you describe where you are and what you are looking for. we can start fresh. :)
sending love.

[illusions13]

Hello Ilona,

Nice to connect with you.

To be honest I dont really know where I am. :)

I am pretty certain that I am beyond the conceptual understanding of the non existence of the ''I'', I can feel it as an experience.... but am still not over the fence.
Doubts continue to persist and the last I answered some of the questions Chris had asked, I seem to have reverted to a lot of thinking based answers rather than the experiential.

Regarding what I am looking for...again, I cannot say I am 100% clear on it.
But given this forum is about shedding the concept of a self and I agree to it at both conceptual and experiential level (even from before starting in this forum in some knowing way)....that would be it as of now.

We had a bit of a break in between the discussions as I was busy with stuff and things got a bit vague in the process perhaps.

I hope to get back to it again with your help.
Looking forward to your guidance. Do let me know what next.

Cheers!

[Ilona]

I see! Thanks for reply.
So if you don't know what you are looking for, how can you ever find it. :) no wonder it went all vague.
What you need is focus. Find out for yourself, what is that you are looking for. Put your heart to it. When you want the truth no matter what, when there is readiness to see, then it's easy.
No one can do this for you, it's your own quest.

So my questions stands- what are you looking for.
Take your time and write when you know.

Sending love.

[illusions13]

ok, so I put my heart n soul in it.
Tried to keep it simple.

Honestly, still not very clear what it is I am looking for.
But I can say this with clarity, maybe more so after chats with Chris...
It really makes a whole lot of sense to me that life is just happening around us. What is, just is.
By associating it with an I,me and myself....it becomes pointlessly complicated and has no relevance either.
It feels very free to be able to see things as they are just happening ... not to anyone in particular.

But this state is not constant (quite far from it)...so what I am looking for is a way to reach a natural realisation that helps me stay in that state and see things for what they are. And to be in such a state without effort.

Thats what comes to mind rather clearly....nothing beyond.

Over to you now. :)

[Ilona]

great, thank you for taking time and looking into it.

you say

But this state is not constant (quite far from it)...so what I am looking for is a way to reach a natural realisation that helps me stay in that state and see things for what they are. And to be in such a state without effort.

that's right, no state is permanent. states always change. if you expect a permanent state of any kind, then you are doomed for a disappointment, because states change. one morning you wake up happy, next one you are sad. this is the flow of life, which is not fixed.

what would be that can stay in a state? that is a question to ask. what is that wants a particular state?

realization is not a state. it's recognition. it's knowing. it is available always here now. yes, thoughts sometimes appear that they tell the truth about how things are. but if you KNOW, that thoughts are stories and they are not reality, then what is the problem?

it's like if a kid realizes/ recognizes that Santa is not a real entity, next time he sees Santa, he will know that no matter how good make up the man will put on. the kid knows it's not real. still Christmas comes and gifts are enjoyed.

same with the i, once you KNOW it is empty, it is not an entity living inside the bag of skin, this can be recognised any moment.


there is another issue here of clearing all beliefs, that are still taking root in the belief of a separate being. that is a lot of work and conditioning does not get rewritten in one hit. but if you know that the conditioning is not something you own, then it's easier to clear it.

so don't look for a permanent state, but remember in each and every state to LOOK and SEE the reality.

Tell me, do you need an effort to simply BE?

[illusions13]

It totally makes sense, all that you said.
Realisation is knowing, not a state. Once you know...it really shouldnt be a problem.
It makes sense to not look for any permanent state but to remember to see reality.

So maybe the problem is that I am not convinced that there is no I even though I agree and understand and have also experienced it in different ways?
Or maybe that I get so sucked into the stories that i forget to look for and see the reality, as you said?

I did not quite understand this:
''but if you know that the conditioning is not something you own, then it's easier to clear it. ''

And no, there doesnt seem to be any effort in BEING. We just are.

[Ilona]

How about this: we get sucked into the story so we can SEE patterns at work. It's not wrong. It's part of process. And there is a lot of work to undo all that is no longer serving.

Can you really believe now that you are a separate from the whole life being, in charge of your little piece of life? With free will and choices independent of situation?

How do you experience separateness?

Is conditioning/ behavioural patterns/ character something you have? What does it stick to?

What is not ok?


Play with these questions and write what you find out.

Sending love

[illusions13]

Hmm...lot of work indeed. :)

Well, I cant believe I am separate....but at some level I am making decisions that do influence situations around me.
Maybe really small things...to further my story. So I could be in charge of maybe only that little piece. :)
A super basic example...I decide what subjects I will take in college, I study and work in that direction...which may be against a given situation and I might make it go in the direction i want?

Not sure if that explains what I mean well enough.

Conditioning/ behavioural patterns/ character .... I feel are generated by the ''I''. They stick to the I.

Hmm...what is not ok....getting a blank here...not sure what you are asking me to ponder on? Sorry.

[Ilona]

:) I'm asking the simplest question- what is not ok right now? No need to complicate that. Just see for yourself, what is not ok right this moment?
It's not a magic trick.
The blank is not an absese of answer it is the answer!
Look again through the day, multiple times. What is not ok right now. Once you find it, let me know.

Are your decisions influenced by certain circumstances? Would you make same choices in different circumstances?
Then how do you know if is you deciding?
Where did that choice for particular subject came from? Out of the blue? Independent of environment?
Look once more, where do these wants come from?

Keep digging.
:)