nonduality

[rainbow12]

What brings you to Liberation Unleashed?
love of the nondual truth, love of freedom, love of life, love of love, love of being, love of everything, love of the illusion, love of the trickless trick, love of people, love of animals, love of communicating with other like minded lovers of nonduality. Love of forums, love of forums like this one.

What are you looking for? What do you expect from this?
love of sharing freedom, love of being in love with life, love of being able to talk to others who are in love with life, love of people who take time out to discover the truth of their being, love of people who take time out to know themselves, love of people who are intelligent and humble who realise they are a gift to life, love of people who know how to live life lovely.

What is your background in terms of seeking and inquiry?
stopped seeking when I realised there was nothing to find, been seeking all my life, was born to seek, I knew I had to seek the truth, I knew life was not going to give it to me, so I had to find it myself, I found myself in seeking, I found there was no separate me, there was just everything all at once, love listening to nondual speakers, love being close to them all the time, it's like being in the arms of the true beloved, no one in the material world can give that kind of love. Nonduality is the only real love.

How ready are you to question your beliefs about who you are and see the truth no matter what? 11

[rainbow12]

I get that everything is interconncected, that it's all oneness. But does anyone know how oneness actually works?

Most people tend to forget about the intention and attention that is always existent in the mind. How is it that I can experience the intention of moving my arm and it moves, but my intent on moving a ball requires me to intend to move my arm first? Why can't I move the ball like I move my arm? Why is my body a proxy in manipulating the rest of the world?

[Nexus]

Hey Rainbow,

My name is Philip and I would like to offer to take you through a few pointers in the Gate.

I get that everything is interconnected, that it's all oneness. But does anyone know how oneness actually works?

Oneness does not need to work because it's so is.....there is nothing outside it to determine anything. Oneness the concept is very different from 'oneness' reality. There is no way of understanding 'oneness' nor is there any need to because it is so just 'this'. See any attempt is a lame duck. The wonderful part of all this is that there is no escape from it or too it....totally impossible as in there is no where to escape to, in this realisation there is utter freedom to be what ever comes up, knowing that all is as it could be and should be. This does not solve your problems as so called problems are just different arrangements of the deck chairs on the 'Titanic'.....ie they appear important in that relative perspective.... and different configurations seem to have better outcomes and make people more or less happy.......but it don't stop the ship going down.

Cheers

Philip

[rainbow12]

Hey Rainbow,

My name is Philip and I would like to offer to take you through a few pointers in the Gate.

I get that everything is interconnected, that it's all oneness. But does anyone know how oneness actually works?

Oneness does not need to work because it's so is.....there is nothing outside it to determine anything. Oneness the concept is very different from 'oneness' reality. There is no way of understanding 'oneness' nor is there any need to because it is so just 'this'. See any attempt is a lame duck. The wonderful part of all this is that there is no escape from it or too it....totally impossible as in there is no where to escape to, in this realisation there is utter freedom to be what ever comes up, knowing that all is as it could be and should be. This does not solve your problems as so called problems are just different arrangements of the deck chairs on the 'Titanic'.....ie they appear important in that relative perspective.... and different configurations seem to have better outcomes and make people more or less happy.......but it don't stop the ship going down.

Cheers

Philip

Thanks for your reply Philip. much appreciated.

[Nexus]

OK Rainbow,

I need a name! Or is it rainbow?

Its ironic all of this. In this seeking we are all looking for what might solve our problems...and theres nothing wrong with that but the irony is that in this realisation that things are as they should be it leaves you nowhere even close to achieving that. Its not that problems aren't real in the sense that they present as pain and potential loss etc etc. The real suffering seems to be the resitance to what is...ie the Buddhist call it 'desire'. The expectation or the wanting or the demand that this should not be as it is and a lifetime is spent trying to fix it or change it.

Philip

[rainbow12]

OK Rainbow,

I need a name! Or is it rainbow?

Its ironic all of this. In this seeking we are all looking for what might solve our problems...and theres nothing wrong with that but the irony is that in this realisation that things are as they should be it leaves you nowhere even close to achieving that. Its not that problems aren't real in the sense that they present as pain and potential loss etc etc. The real suffering seems to be the resitance to what is...ie the Buddhist call it 'desire'. The expectation or the wanting or the demand that this should not be as it is and a lifetime is spent trying to fix it or change it.

Philip

Yes, thank you.

Wanting things to be different than what they are is the cause of any suffering. Especially wanting events to be other than what has already occurred. So knowing that life is not personal is the Nondual message and it is of course the peace that we're all looking for. What I find frustrating is not being able to convey the Nondual message to my family and friends, I find my views differ and that in and of itself can be quite isolating. but it's well worth the price in any case.

[rainbow12]

Dear Philip, I would like to ask you a question regarding the famous quote by Rene Descartes...''I think therefore I Am''


I will wait for your consent.

And you can call me rainbow.

[Nexus]

Rainbow,

The phrase "I think therefore I Am" is often pulled apart by 'Non-Dualist's' as false and misleading but in many ways it could be interpreted as the thinking being the source of the belief that 'I' am a separate autonomous 'me' that is the doer and author of all the thinking and action and decisions made within the realm of this 'mind/body organism'. So without the belief in that thought what is there? At the end of the day these are all concepts and thus limited by that. What is worth inquiring into though is that which is prior to thought ie that which is known before thought seems to step in and process and interpret.

What is that 'knowingness' that knows the statement, the words "I think therefore I Am". What is that?... as in the screen that the movie is shown on. Even though the movie is full of drama and death and explosions and love and peaceful palm trees. All you are even seeing is the screen and the screen is flavoured by the movie but it all ways remains unchanged and the same. Without the screen.... the light of the projector is invisible and projects out into the vast blackness (in my metaphor that is). The screen is the 'knowingness'..........what ever that is?

Philip

[rainbow12]

Philip..thank you for the wonderful reply.
It's reminded me of the ''belief aspect'' without which, as you've mentioned.. what is here?

Thanks for clearing up some confusion in me over the whereabouts of the 'I' in which thoughts appear...I see here the 'I' is nothing other than a belief which is nothing particular in of itself. This to me is the irrational side of nondual thinking, whereas the mind always seeks for evidence, rationality and logic. Even though a rainbow has no actual location or independent existence.

Thanks for all the work you do, and the free giving of your wisdom and time, much appreciated.

Rainbow.

[Nexus]

Hey Rainbow,

This forum is not really a place to just discuss non-dual ideas....its where fundamentals can be challenged. So where are 'you' at? When there is deep enquiry to the source of you... what do you see? Is there a rainbow at the end of the rainbow? Tell me something I don't know.

Philip

[rainbow12]

Hey Rainbow,

This forum is not really a place to just discuss non-dual ideas....its where fundamentals can be challenged. So where are 'you' at? When there is deep enquiry to the source of you... what do you see? Is there a rainbow at the end of the rainbow? Tell me something I don't know.

Philip

Hi Philip.

You ask where am I at'? ...in answer to that question.. I would say I'm at the ''what is'' without an identity stage. To me, there's just everything which is equal to no thing ...and that ''things'' have artificially manifested as mere thoughts & beliefs which have no location or independent reality apart from 'what is'... although the thoughts & beliefs do apparently appear to be sourced from within a localised entity named ''I'' or 'me' .. but I've since discovered even that phenomena to be as empty as the thought/belief itself...which blows apart any idea there is a local source of any ''I'' existing.

I see that the the physical world is real enough, and that it is what it is without doubt, yet I don't see it has having or belonging to an owner or knower outside of this already ''knowing''... And that the only identify/able.. knowable thing that can know itself is a thought/ belief/ or word itself ie: the attached meaning.. all of which are ACTUAL ''fictions''

So from this we can see that ''identification'' is nothing more than a ''fictional story'' about reality ...when in true real reality..reality cannot be touched or seen or known by any thing apart from what it actually is before it is identified.
It simply IS without having any identity. The world is simply an empty screen on which dreams and stories APPARENTLY appear and disappear and re-appear endlessly....

[Nexus]

Hey Rainbow,

Nice to hear from you again....

And that the only identify/able.. knowable thing that can know itself is a thought/ belief/ or word itself ie: the attached meaning.. all of which are ACTUAL ''fictions''

I think labelling something a fiction or not a fiction can be a distraction. Everything that is known is real... because it is nothing but pure knowingness, its just that the accompanying thought that arrises in that moment (which is also real) comes to a conclusion that seems to be based in a limited relativity and does not follow through as true in what it is implying, yet it is believed.
Where does that leave things?.....The most vital element in this inquiry is 'seeing', seeing reality.... so nothing changes its just that the seeing realises that things are not what 'you' thought they were. In that simplicity everything changes....and yet there is "chopping wood and carrying water" as before, but something has opened up....The seeing is the end of seeking for something, something other than this.....seeing is the end of trying to work out what is fiction and what is not, it is the end of all that because it is seen that this is all there is and it allowed because it

is

. It too late to reject anything.

Philip

[rainbow12]

Where does that leave things?.....The most vital element in this inquiry is 'seeing', seeing reality.... so nothing changes its just that the seeing realises that things are not what 'you' thought they were.

Thanks philip, I do understand this.

Seeing/knowing is real, and so cannot be unreal in the fictional sense.

Here ..there is a direct seeing/knowing... which cannot be a fiction... fiction is just an assumption made by the idea there is a 'you' to make that assumption? ...Here it is seen that any idea formed about what is reality can never effect this direct seeing/knowing that is already the case.

I've heard it said by some nonduality speakers that there is one Self looking through every single body simultaneously. And that is the only Self there is. The single body is just an instrument for Self/beingness to experience/see/know itself. The body instrument is not the one being alive, or having a separate existence, the aliveness of being is all oneness experiencing itself through the body machine...and that the machine doesn't look or know, it is that which is being looked through and known in the experience?