Help a shift to seeing correctly

[yoyo]

. What is the forehead in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image (of a forehead), right?

So, can a thought come from a sensation?
Can a thought come from a mental image?

forehead is mental imagesensation even if i grab it to think on ur questions hahaha.cant feel a thought the just blink up for a nano second mental image is a thought form and cant create anything.
S
No sleep happened will see now
Warm loving thots of gratitude-:)Allen

[forgetmenot]

Good morning Allen,

I hope you had a restful nights sleep. :)

Can sight come from a sensation?
Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?
Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?

site and color not separate. mutually happening as each other.so no cant come from sensation .sensation is AE. image is thought and cant do anything.
Mental image is AE of thought. no thought can only appear as AE cant create anything.

Yes! Mental images are another form of thought, although visual/sight images are AE of colour.

. What evidence is there that what is called ‘darkness’ (sleeping) happens for a period of time?

none what so ever literally zero.only a thought story.cant even know "nothing" hmmm....slippery,absencse of AE hmmmm......AE always is,so cant be absent.

Yes! AE always is, so can never be absent. Here’s a bit of a twisty pointer! But I know you like them! :)

Thought would say that when the colour/image of a donut appears, that the hole has no donut and therefore is empty. Is the hole actually empty?

. What evidence is there that what is called ‘darkness’ (sleeping) happens for a period of time?

nothing and AE same. AE cant be without a(nothing) for it to appear hmmm... bad expression. ur explanation clearer. now see as one thing and thought splitting up so not separate. actually AE and "awareness" mutually arising as sameness

Yes experience (aka “awareness) and AE are one and the same. Experience appearing as AE.

Experience has nothing. Anything it supposedly has, it actually IS.
Does it have colour? No, it IS colour.
Does it have taste? No, it IS taste.
Does it have sound? No, it IS sound
Does it have sensation? No, it IS sensation
Does it have thought? No, it IS thought
Does it have smell? No, it IS smell
Experience is limitless.

Answer more tomorrow sleepy now

Haha….pun intended? ;)

. What is the difference between ‘believing’ and ‘not believing’?

believing % story not believing is story also but closer to truth either look and see or not. AE only tru and verifyable

Yep, checking with AE provides answers to questions! :)

There is no difference between ‘believing’ or ‘not believing, yes, they are both AE of thought. It's the content of the thought that differs. The 'believing thought - says something is ‘believed', the 'not believing’ thought says it is 'not believed'. So both are the same...the story is different. Plus there is no one/no thing that can believe or not believe!

What is the forehead in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image (of a forehead), right?
So, can a thought come from a sensation?
Can a thought come from a mental image?

forehead is mental image sensation even if i grab it to think on ur questions hahaha.cant feel a thought the just blink up for a nano second mental image is a thought form and cant create anything.

Terrific, Allen! You certainly are seeing the difference between AE and thought story very clearly!

Okay…so let’s just look at a few more ideas about the body.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question.

Love, Kay
xx

[yoyo]

.Thought would say that when the colour/image of a donut appears, that the hole has no donut and therefore is empty. Is the hole actually empty

no donut AE of color and hole AE of color the rest is thought story.although donut hole not very nourishing-:)

[yoyo]

. Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

tallness can not be known.no weight or volume.no shape or form.no boundry between skin and clothing.no boundry with chair.only sensationappearing every thing else is thought story asAE.word /label actually refers to a thoughtimage only.sensationthought AE of body reference.
Loveing thoughts
Allen

[yoyo]

.Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

wait no AE of body at all!!!!!!

[forgetmenot]

Hi Allen,

.Thought would say that when the colour/image of a donut appears, that the hole has no donut and therefore is empty. Is the hole actually empty

no donut AE of color and hole AE of color the rest is thought story.although donut hole not very nourishing-:)

Thank you for the laugh! No, the donut hole is not very nourishing at all!

But yes, the hole is AE of colour as well! Experience is appearing as a hole in a donut! Quite amazing! So nothing is ever ‘empty’, as everything is experience appearing as that ‘something’, even the so called silence!

It's impossible to say what experience aka THIS is, because divisions cannot capture indivisibility. Even the word indivisibility doesn't capture it. Abstractions can only refer to that from which they were abstracted.
The flour can't capture/describe the cake.
The sugar can't capture/describe the cake.
The eggs can't capture/describe the cake.
No parts can capture/describe the whole.

. Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

tallness can not be known.no weight or volume.no shape or form.no boundry between skin and clothing.no boundry with chair.only sensationappearing every thing else is thought story asAE.word /label actually refers to a thoughtimage only.sensationthought AE of body reference.

Beautiful! :)

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

wait no AE of body at all!!!!!!

YES!
The word/label ‘body’ is the AE of thought and not the AE of a body!
The sensation labelled as the ‘body’ is AE of sensation and not the AE of a body
The image/colour labelled as the ‘body’ is the AE of image/colour and not the AE of a body

So, yes…. there is no actual experience of the body at all!


Okay, so let’s check in to see where you are with all of this!

1. Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?
2. Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?
3. Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?
4. Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
5. Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?
6. Has there ever been a separate ‘self’ doing anything?
7. Is there any confusion at all, or anything you would like to address?

Much love to you,
Kay
xx

[yoyo]

. 1. Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?
2. Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?
3. Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?
4. Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
5. Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?
6. Has there ever been a separate ‘self’ doing anything?
7. Is there any confusion at all, or anything you would like to address?

1.yes*hmmmm....the thought "memory" or "remember what was seen "keeps appearing.Crap only blahblahblah only AE really happening
2.yes
3.absolutely not
4.no
5.nope
6.nope
7.yes thought story persistently arising wanting some meaning or some danger to be addressed.shit!! No sensation.only thoughts arising claiming separateness and remember experiences.its all thought in AE.may need more looking.blablahblah AE only known happening

[forgetmenot]

Hello Allen,

1. Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?

1.yes*hmmmm....the thought "memory" or "remember what was seen "keeps appearing.Crap only blahblahblah only AE really happening

You will have to explain this succinctly and as clearly as possible, so we can have a look at what is going on.

7. Is there any confusion at all, or anything you would like to address?

7.yes thought story persistently arising wanting some meaning or some danger to be addressed.shit!! No sensation.only thoughts arising claiming separateness and remember experiences.its all thought in AE.may need more looking.blablahblah AE only known happening

Same with this one. I need to know what story is continuously appearing so we can have a look at it and get it sorted. So, succinct and yet very clearly....tell me what's happening.

Love, Kay
xx

[yoyo]

. 1. Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?
2. Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?
3. Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?
4. Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
5. Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?
6. Has there ever been a separate ‘self’ doing anything?
7. Is there any confusion at all, or anything you would like to address?

Its been seen clearly and many many many times an "i" thought arises with thought stories about evidence confirming separation and stories of memory and then an "i" responsible for initiation. And an "i"that wants to see clearly.wow crap then when looking can clearly see no "i" and memory only a thought appearing now.separation only story.and evidence only thought story.so back and forth

[yoyo]

. 1. Has it been clearly seen that there is no separate individual (“I/me”), and never has been?
2. Has it been clearly seen that there has never been a separate individual that could control or own life or anything?
3. Is there any chooser or decider of any kind?
4. Is there a separate individual/entity of any kind whatsoever that could be responsible for anything at all?
5. Is there a separate entity that started this investigation?
6. Has there ever been a separate ‘self’ doing anything?
7. Is there any confusion at all, or anything you would like to address?

So answering " thought cant do anything "becoming right answer to say instead of emediate knowing

[forgetmenot]

Hey Allen,

Its been seen clearly and many many many times an "i" thought arises with thought stories about evidence confirming separation and stories of memory and then an "i" responsible for initiation. And an "i"that wants to see clearly.wow crap then when looking can clearly see no "i" and memory only a thought appearing now.separation only story.and evidence only thought story.so back and forth

Terrific! Sometimes your shorthand writing isn't very clear to me! :)

So can you see that there is never a time when AE is not clearly seen?

A thought may appear saying "I am not clear about this", or "this story about an 'i' keeps on appearing", or "I am confused", or "I'm not sure if I really saw that now or not" and so on. And do these thought point to AE or do they point to thought story? Aren't you 'aware' of every thought that appears? Is there ever a time when you are not 'aware' of thoughts appearing? You always know exactly 'what is' by being directly aware of what is. You aren't the least bit confused or deluded - it's just *thought* that doesn't know what the hell is going on! :)

When we started this exploration I asked you 5 questions.

1. How will life change?
2. How will you change?
3. What will be different?
4. What is missing?
5. What would you like to achieve or obtain by this conversation?

Your answers were:
#1 more freedom maybe more intense somehow
#2 if no self then maybe more connected,less worrying ,more peaceful
#3. Reaction to fear reaction to feelings and pain
#4 joyfulness,gratitude
#5 patience with the pointing and guidence after seeing,also any insight with a spouse who is concerned and nervous

So, in respect from the beginning to now...what has changed?


Love, Kay
xx

[yoyo]

. So can you see that there is never a time when AE is not clearly seen?

actually just have to LOOK it is always clear. Yes only thoughtstory appearing yes yes!!

[yoyo]

. So, in respect from the beginning to now...what has changed?

1. Only watch tv when wife and i r sharing company.rather LOOK at AE of thoughtsmelltastesensationcolorSound.Notice suffering in apparent others believing stories.crap that is just a thoughtsory appearing now..MUCH More relaxed ,much less reactive to drama if at all.shit another thought story of AEof colrimagesound being labeled drama.sensations labeled "feelings" appear and clear much quicker seemingly.
2.not arguing with reality much at all.not much point to ithmmm...reality another thoughtand who to argue !!
3.everything different and still the same hard to verbalize
4.thoughts of belief is diminished greatly and relience on AE truth being seen more much more
5.whatever comes this way.and spouse is just colorimage labeled wife.want to look more at apparent separation.crap "wife" is a thought label also.no wife.
Redo...
1.life is thoughtstory
2.you is thoughtstory
3.difference is thought story
4.nothing can possibly be missing AE is itself and all
5.no me to achieve and you and conversation is story
Love allen-:)))))

[forgetmenot]

Hi Allen,

The story of separate things and separate people will continue to appear, as will emotions, reactions and so on. All you can do is to continue to LOOK but allow the stories, because you are aware that they are stories...but the stories aren't going to disappear. Yes, you will notice 'suffering' in others and see how they are caught up in the story of separation, of being a separate individuals who are living a life that is full of ups and downs ie drama! Just notice everything and just keep on LOOKING.

I think for this exploration though, you have seen through the idea of there being a separate individual. If you like we can continue on investigating further in another area of the forum. But for now, it's time to give you the last lot of questions and to close this thread :)

So, can you answer these questions and give as much detail as you can please. In Q5, please answer all the questions and please PROVIDE examples. It has been an absolute pleasure walking with you to the gate. Your absolute willingness to LOOK has been a delight. Once you have answered these questions, I will let you know what the next steps are! :)

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) a) How does it feel to see this?
b) What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

With much love,
Kay
xx

[yoyo]

. 1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

" was there ever "is a thought story only appearing NOW."self "me"l"r thoughts appearing now and there is no "anywhere" only this now.shape and form is colorimage and can only appear as it appears no otherway