eternal prayer

[illusions13]

Trying to keep it direct now.
Experiential.

I cant pinpoint an ‘I’ . It feels like its a thought, something being created by the mind. Doesnt feel real.

When I close my eyes there seems to be a presence of something though. An awareness of being. Something alive. But not tangible.

What is being aware? : nothing it seems. The awareness just ‘is’.

Is anything being aware? : no. it just seems to be a state of being without anyone being involved.

Is anything doing the being aware? There is no doing. It just is.

And its kinda relaxing, to not have to do anything about anything! :)

[BleedIntoOne]

This is great EP. You’re “crashing the gate” nicely, as we say around here.

So let’s continue to go deeper. Here is the Bahiya Sutra. Look through this lens and see what it points to—how everything looks through it.

In the seen, there is only the seen,
in the heard, there is only the heard,
in the sensed, there is only the sensed,
in the cognized, there is only the cognized.
Thus you should see that
indeed there is no thing here;
this, Bahiya, is how you should train yourself.
Since, Bahiya, there is for you
in the seen, only the seen,
in the heard, only the heard,
in the sensed, only the sensed,
in the cognized, only the cognized,
and you see that there is no thing here,
you will therefore see that
indeed there is no thing there.
As you see that there is no thing there,
you will see that
you are therefore located neither in the world of this,
nor in the world of that,
nor in any place
betwixt the two.
This alone is the end of suffering.

Take your time with it, several days if need be, and write what you noticed. What looks different?

[illusions13]

Hello Chris.

Have read the Sutra a coupe of times but not really spent time with it.
Will do so soon and revert.

Hope you are well.

Cheers,
EP

[BleedIntoOne]

Sounds good. Take your time with it and report back whenever you're ready.

Be well.

[illusions13]

Hello.
I am back. :)

I read up the background on Bahiya Sutra out of curiosity.
After reading I remembered you had asked me not to read stuff! :)

I was unable to connect with the sutra when I read it. I understand what it means but I didn’t feel anything.

But I did have some ‘real’ connection probably during a meditation session this morning.
Will recount it to explain the best I can. I hope it is relevant.

I was in some thoughtless silent state. Normally in such a state I hear the sounds coming from outside my house.
Earlier on, the brain would instantly start identifying, this is a horn, a car screech, a truck braking etc.
Over time it moved to no analysis of vehicles, just me hearing sounds from outside.
Today, for the first time, it felt like there were just sounds. There was no association with the ‘I’ or ‘me’.
The sounds just ‘were’!

I didnt think...’’I am listening’’.
All that came to mind was....there are sounds. Thats it.
No identification with myself.
Even if I tried...the I didn’t come up.

Then I tried to look for the self and I just felt an awareness...no self.
It was a blurry awareness.
But it still seemed to reside somewhat in my body limits but not clearly.

The sound just being sound, with no ‘’I’’ hearing them was very very clear. I felt it completely. And it felt quite interesting n nice.

This blurry awareness was quite confusing though. But the absence of I in that awareness was something I could feel a bit strongly, if not completely.

So thats what I experienced.

It might be a bit elaborate but I felt I should paint a clear picture for better understanding.

And still, when I read the sutra, after this experience...I don’t feel anything other than an intellectual understanding.

[BleedIntoOne]

Hey EP. Nice to hear back from you. And no problem that the sutra didn’t resonate, though the interesting thing is that the experience you described, is exactly what is written in the sutra itself. “in the seen, only the seen, in the heard, only the heard, in the sensed, only the sensed, in the cognized, only the cognized…”

So besides that pleasant experience you described, how have things been going for you with this exploration?

What have you been noticing? Anything different?

How’s the story of “EP” going? Or has the story been seen through? (Though it’s also worth noting that once the story has been seen through, for most, it continues to appear and reappear again and again, which is a-okay because it’s all just part of the process—of life’s unfolding.)

Just trying to get a gauge for where things are so we can continue from there.

Hoping this finds you well.

[illusions13]

Hello there. :)

Exploration has been very interesting. I noticed that at the start i asked so many qs and had so much (extra & seemingly irrelevant) stuff to say. It seemed important then.

But the day I dropped the excessive thinking and focused on the direct experience the thinking kind of came down by itself in general.
The experience being experience seems enough in itself at times.

I tend to dwell on this concept a lot, and also try to apply. But there are too many distractions in life.

Re ‘the story of EP’....to be honest...I have been on this path in different ways before and already kind of know/understand/feel that this is a story.
From books, videos, meditation sessions...have had glimpses....but few and far between.
So its not entirely a new thing for me in that sense.

But till now...it was mostly ‘my story’. Now its becoming ‘a’ story.

But yes, mostly, its still a story that ‘I ‘have made up for ‘myself’!
As you said, ‘’ it continues to appear and reappear again and again’’....
The frequency is very high, the non ‘I’ moments are very few despite having experienced it to a certain extent.

At some level it still scares me a bit. The idea that there is no me. Feel like clinging to something.
Also, I feel, I enjoy my ‘I’ story. Then why should I give it up?
In fact it kind of makes the whole story more fun.
It does feel simpler and more peaceful without it but...there’s still that something that I don’t want to let go of. (Not that its an easy thing to do anyway)

[BleedIntoOne]

At some level it still scares me a bit. The idea that there is no me. Feel like clinging to something.

Can you see that it is the idea, the thought, that is creating this fear and actually has nothing to do with a “you” not existing? There is no you to not exist anyways, so when the fear arises, it helps to let it just come and again, recognize that the fear is a result of what is being thought.

We are afraid to lose our story because it has become so familiar and dear to us. What would we be without it? It’s worth taking the time to find out because what you keep looking for (so you can finally relax) is what you already are.

So the next time fear arises, bring it in for a closer examination. Look at the mechanics of it. Observe and study how it works.

What do you notice?

What is the fear protecting?

Curious to see what comes up for you here.

Also, I feel, I enjoy my ‘I’ story. Then why should I give it up?

No one is asking you to give anything up ☺ Life is still very much enjoyed one the illusion of self is seen through. In fact, most report back that the quality of life and enjoyment improves immensely with time. Pain becomes suffering when we attach a personal story to it while playing the game of “I.” Since you have experience studying different traditions/teachers, I’m sure you’ve hear that many times before.

So the question then becomes, how much suffering do I want to endure while playing the game? There is no right or wrong answer here of course and I write that rhetorically as something more to ponder than something you need to reply to.

[illusions13]

Hello.
Did a quick read through.
I like the qs n comments and want to spend time peacefully on this.

Bit busy hence will revert in a couple of days.
But am keeping the qs in mind.

Hope you are well.

Cheers! :)

[BleedIntoOne]

Thanks for checking in and please, take your time. I'd much rather you really explore what we're discussing instead of rushing through. Take good care and looking forward to hearing from you when you're ready!

[illusions13]

‘’What do you notice?
What is the fear protecting?’’

I do realise that the fear of losing the I is also a thought itself.
I can see that actually nothing changes on losing the I. It all stays the way it ‘’is’’!
So there is nothing to be lost really.
So the mind is probably trying to protect the concept that has become a habit.
Its protecting the I.

In addition to that though, when I am able to see that there is no I and just an awareness, the fear is also of the feeling that there is no proper understanding of the awareness.
Whereas I know everything about the ‘I’.
So there is a comfort in knowing the I and a fear of being something I don’t even know properly.
So maybe the fear would be less if I understood the awareness better.
Maybe thats the familiarity thing you said.
Dont know how clear I was on that point.

‘’Pain becomes suffering when we attach a personal story to it while playing the game of “I.”’’

Absolutely love this line! :)
Yes, have heard and felt before in different formats.
Been its never very long lasting, the understanding, the knowing.

‘’How much suffering do I want to endure while playing the game?’’

Thats something I have actually wondered at times, when i do realise that i am playing a part in my story. At times i also feel I am actually enjoying the suffering in some way, thats why i let it go on.
But that ‘clarity’ is not always there.

Again not sure if I was able to express properly.
But the q is a good one, I like it, seems important in the whole scheme of things.

A last random thought....when we lose the I and just are, I get a feeling that we all are one. The essence or the awareness that is there, its the same everywhere, in ‘everyone’. Its all one in that sense.
Maybe not related to current discussion but its interesting. :)

[BleedIntoOne]

So maybe the fear would be less if I understood the awareness better.

This is so tricky. I completely understand what you mean here, but can you see how it’s the “I” continuing to assert itself. “I” need to understand. Why? What is there to understand? It’s in trying to understand, which is to say, going back into the mind to think about what’s happening and why, that we’re taken out of the direct experience.

This is of course natural. It’s what the mind does. But there is no answer the mind will ever receive that will suffice. The mind must be gone beyond in order to truly experience no-self because the mind is simply a labeling machine. Not badmouthing the mind here because it certainly serves an important service, but it’s also what keeps us trapped in seeking, trapped in trying to understand, and always just one step away from directly seeing truth.

At times i also feel I am actually enjoying the suffering in some way, thats why i let it go on.

Absolutely. The “I” will grab onto any identification it can to hold on. Joy, sorrow, suffering… as long as it’s “mine” there is a very odd sense of familiarity and safety in that. Giving up the “I” attached to those things is scary, it does create fear like you mentioned. But remember, fear is simply a sensation that should not be avoided but rather noticed and felt.

Here’s a wonderful practice for working with fear that I was given while going through the process myself.

When fear comes up, bring awareness to it and as counterintuitive as it may feel, thank it for being there. Allow it to be there for a moment and let it be okay that it’s there. Then, look behind there fear. Is there anything there? Does anything show up? If so, look behind that too. What’s there? This isn’t about analyzing but rather, exploring with curiosity. What is hiding behind the sensation of fear?

What often happens as a result of this practice is that the mind will see there is nothing to fear so it’s protection mechanism can then stop protecting that “nothing”. Remember, the image of “me” is a mind creation, and when that image is questioned, it’s natural for the mind to want to protect it’s creation. But there’s no reality to it and once that’s seen, truly seen, the mind will relax.

A last random thought....when we lose the I and just are, I get a feeling that we all are one. The essence or the awareness that is there, its the same everywhere, in ‘everyone’. Its all one in that sense.

This is it exactly. I love the phrase my guide used, it’s all just life-lifeing. It’s all one movement. We’re as much an extension of that life as the trees and birds and mountains and so on. It truly is all one. When you get a chance, spend a little time in nature, whether it’s the woods, a park, anywhere that has trees etc. Watch the way it all wiggles and moves. No effort. It’s all just happening exactly as it should. Just like the physical organism we call a body. We don’t make our hair or nails grow, just like the tree doesn’t make it’s branches grow. It’s all just a natural part of the one movement of life. Enjoy it!

Take some time with this and let me know how the fear exercise goes for you as well as your time in nature. You’re doing wonderfully in this exploration.

[illusions13]

Hello there!
Sorry, I have not been able to get on to this for a while.
Very busy these days.
I dont want to give knee jerk responses hence waiting this one out.

I hope thats ok.

Cheers!

[BleedIntoOne]

No problem at all. I appreciate you giving it your attention when you have time rather than quick replies!

Be well and look forward to hearing from you when you're ready.

[illusions13]

Hello.
Sorry for the delay but life just happened...as it is meant to....as I am learning here... :)

Agree....there is this need to understand...and when i think about it....i see no reason why anything needs to be understood.

‘’ there is no answer the mind will ever receive that will suffice’’

Makes sense but hard to get over. Its such a deep set habit.
But i am trying to stick to the ‘’seeing’’ rather than involving the mind.

I tried the fear exercise & its obviously the mind latching on to the I.
When i drop that and go beyond, there is a ‘nothing’. But I see that this nothing is not the real nothing but another label given by the mind, analysing the beyond.
And then that nothing creates an apprehension inside...some lower level of fear I guess.
So I guess i have some work to do on that front. :)

Nice note on the just being a natural part of the one movement of life!
Unfortunately did not get a chance to spend time in nature, theres not much around where i live.
So this exercise is still pending.

Not much to report this time! :)

On a parting note...wondering (yes, that doesn’t seem to stop :)).... why were humans given this big brain that makes us think so much, if the whole point was to just exist naturally?!

Looking forward to your response .