Hi Wendylon, great to see you here.

[Ilona]

Let's talk a little here :)
How is everything after our meeting? Any big or small shifts? Any questions?
Please share

Much love.

[Wendilon]

Hi Ilona,

It was lovely to be at the meeting and listen to you. I wish I had taken notes. It all feels vague and fuzzy but I know I want to go further and that you said some really interesting things.

I get that there is no person/Wendy (when I think about it) but, and I think I said this at the meeting too, I feel as if there is still a person because of how I feel (depressed, anxious, upset with my husband..) That bundle of uncomfortable feelings seems to point to a 'me' who is feeling them and trying to work out how to improve how she feels.

I really look forward to your response.

Much love,
Wendy

[Ilona]

Let's keep looking further.
What is this person that you are talking about? Is it real? Can it be touched or felt with other senses? If not, is it possible, that it has been imagined?

Write what comes up.

[Wendilon]

No, this depressed/anxious/irritated person can't be felt or sensed right now other than through remembering, thinking or talking about her. She's only in thought now so, yes, you could say 'imagined'.

Then again, I can predict that I will feel as if I am that person again--particularly just as I wake up tomorrow morning. In that moment, the uncomfortable sensations of depression/anxiety will point strongly towards the existence of a suffering person. I'm guessing that you will ask if this suffering person is real. I guess I have to acknowledge that that person will be imagined but the sensations will feel v real.

[Ilona]

Ok, this is mind trying to resolve confusion.
Let whatever comes up be ok. Don't try to run away from the feeling, sit with it. Embrace it. Those feelings that have been repressed for years are here to get released. Welcome them instead of resisting. If its anger- say hello to anger, say thank you for showing up. It's ok to show up. Give it a smile.

There is a huge difference if you alow space for the feelings to come and go as they please.

Ask you mind right now, what does it want do it can relax.
Write me the answer.

[Wendilon]

Part of the morning mental thinking is about how I need to fix the situation so that waking up stops being such torture.

The mind goes around in circles looking for either a different way to think about my life that will 'work', for strategies to change my family members' behaviour so they will stop depressing me and making me anxious, or it tells me that the only way out is through taking anti-depressants because it must be a constitutional thing beyond my control. The mind also says that I am weak and defective for feeling like this. I have been prescribed anti-depressants in the past and they did 'work' but it was then discovered that they suppress my bone-marrow functioning--a fairly rare side-effect but one that isn't desirable from a medical point of view.

You ask what the mind would need to relax. It would need to be reassured that the feelings will change and that the depression will lift and not linger for long. The mind is frightened mainly about this situation going on and on or getting worse.

If I'm perfectly honest, my interest in liberation probably fits into the first category above: the search for relief by thinking differently.

[Ilona]

I see that by looking for liberation you have a goal to fix what is not working.
It does not work this way.
What you see instead, that there is nothing to fix. It may sound strange for you now, but it's the truth. Everything is working fine, except that you can not see it yet. Waking up does not happen from illusion, but to it. You see that there is no one in control over anything. Life just happens.

Ask your mind, can it trust the process. It's not gonna take that long if you stick with it. That means being completely honest and answering here for at least once a day.

We are not looking for new way of thinking, not some new fancy beliefs that would replace old ones. Not for pleasant everlasting state. What we are digging here for is truth. Seeing things as they are, by unconditioning the mind.

So let's start digging.
Read this conversation
http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... r.html?m=1

It will help you see where I'm pointing to. Write what thoughts and feelings come up after.

Lots of love to you Wendy.
Just trust that all is unfolding perfectly.

[Wendilon]

Thank you very much for your response and the link to the conversation. I found it fascinating.

I'm curious about the idea of life living itself. It makes sense and I get short glimpses of feeling it too.

I keep obsessing and worrying about how to improve my relationship but if life is just living itself then I can just watch and see how it unfolds with no worries about not getting it right! I hated the fact that my parents got divorced when I was a child so have this idea that I must do whatever it takes to have a good/stable marriage for my kids' sakes. If there is no 'me' to control this, then letting go about it can happen.

I can also watch what happens in the mornings, again without a sense that I should be mastering mornings better.

I like the idea of there being nothing to fix--strange as it sounds. I'm committed to being 100% honest (but not sure who this 'I' is who could control being committed to honesty). I'm also completely happy to answer at least once a day.

Thank you very much.

[Ilona]

Great answer, thank you Wendy.

You say that if life goes on by itself- take a look, does it?
Does a tree needs a grower inside it?
Do birds need managers to fly?
Does anything make it rain?
Just watch life for a day and tell me, what is not on automatic?

What do you control?
How do you do that?


Sending love.

[Wendilon]

All clear with the tree, the birds and the rain. Not so clear when it comes to me. I will watch life today and see what is not on automatic.

I weighed myself this morning and I've put on some weight. If I can control it, I'd like to eat a bit less today. We'll see how that goes (in the name of control).

Many thanks,
Wendy

[Ilona]

look at wendy as a human, not as me. :)

[Wendilon]

Some things were obviously on automatic today. I flushed the toilet without thinking about it; I did the dishes without having to pay much attention to what I was doing; the typing right now is happening without thought about my fingers.

Other things looked at first glance as if they weren't on automatic but if I think about it longer maybe they were also on automatic. For example, I decided not to have strawberries after supper and didn't but I'd also decided earlier to have a piece of chocolate before supper and then not have another one after supper. As it turns out, I did have another piece of chocolate after supper. In other words, the plan got carried out in one situation (no strawberries) but not in the other (chocolate twice as opposed to once). Superficially, a plan that was carried out makes it seem as if it wasn't on automatic. However, the plans themselves seem to have appeared out of nowhere and whether or not they got followed through seems to have been arbitrary. I didn't decide that I would follow through on one plan and not the other. It just happened.

When you mentioned looking at the day in terms of 'Wendy as a human and not as a me', I became aware of how much the day revolved around tending to my family. Made me think of myself as an animal doing its family thing--feeding, cleaning...

Life does go on by itself but I can't help but think that it must go on differently when there is a sense of being a controller. It must be more effortful with the idea of a self. Just having that thought of being someone with control must change how things get planned and that in turn must affect whether or not they turn out.

I've had moments of feeling less anxious and more fatalistic about my marriage issues today. Those moments happened when I've entertained the idea that it could just be that it really is all on automatic. Once again though, those times were on automatic. I didn't make them happen.

Then again, maybe even the illusion that life isn't on automatic is part of of life being on automatic. I'm getting in over my head with this thought as there are so many layers to it.

I hope I'm not overcomplicating this.

Many thanks,
Wendy

[Ilona]

You are doing great, Wendy, investigating and finding stuff out that has always been obvious, but never looked at.
When you have shower tomorrow, notice, that body washes itself no matter what thoughts are going on, it just happens.

When you make breakfast, watch that body carries all actions effortlessly, and that action has little connection to thought. Thoughts are labelling actions and I thought claims ownership. But look closer, can you find a doer in ANY action at all?

Dig deeper here, with curiosity.
Write what you notice.

Much love.

[Wendilon]

So far this morning, actions happened. Doer wasn't obviously there (unless I labelled what I was doing and then actions got claimed). Then again, it was pretty mundane stuff such as getting my son up and ready for school bus. It is habitual so it would make sense for it to all be pretty automatic. I'm about to get myself processed and will watch to see if it's all on automatic.

I woke up with a sore throat and feel annoyed about that. The one who feels annoyed feels like me. It seems that the 'me' is very identified with my likes and dislikes, my preferences. It really feels that 'I' don't like having a sore throat in the same way that it really feels that 'I' don't like my husband over-eating and smoking. My ideas of how things should run feel as if they come from me and define me. Maybe that's where the 'me' really lives--in my ideas of how things should be.

[Ilona]

That annoyance is here to show you something. It arises as a reaction to sensation of sore throat. Can you focus on the feeling of soreness and allow it to be here, observe it as a sensation, with curiosity. Where is it felt, what is the shape of sensation, what is the size? Don't push it away and label it as bad, just investigate it. See if the annoyance is still there if you don't resist that feeling.

After that, can you tell that annoyance comes from a me? Can it be just an innocent response to what is? Is it not automatic too?

Much love.