the house of me

[blackh]

Hi Vikas,

So a thought arose that you shouldn't have reacted in a certain way, and that you shouldn't smoke. Can these "yous" be found as an objectively existing thing?

Isn't it clear that these thoughts are fiction, and that the "reflective self" is just a label for a certain pattern of thought content?

There is also a bad feeling associated with these thoughts. What exactly is it about the feeling that is bad? Look at the body sensation. Is that bad, or is it just thought claiming that it's bad?


Steve

[shivite]

hi steve

So a thought arose that you shouldn't have reacted in a certain way, and that you shouldn't smoke. Can these "yous" be found as an objectively existing thing?

no

Isn't it clear that these thoughts are fiction, and that the "reflective self" is just a label for a certain pattern of thought content?

yes, it is clear.

There is also a bad feeling associated with these thoughts. What exactly is it about the feeling that is bad? Look at the body sensation. Is that bad, or is it just thought claiming that it's bad?

its hard to accurately describe a "heavy heart". clearly, a thought is claiming its bad. i am not an expert, but its possible the body releases 'stuff' (hormones, etc) that makes the it lethargic or creates a headache.

[blackh]

Hi Vikas,

Yes, the body produces sensations when certain emotional thoughts happen. Wait till one of these contracted selfy feelings comes up.

Notice that the associated thought is trying to protect you.

Do you control your feelings? No, because there's no "you". So you're not going to be able to wish this feeling away.

So welcome the feeling and thank it for trying to protect you. (This is very important.) Notice the body sensation. If you ignore the thought story, is it really that terrible?

There will be a thought story going on about how dreadful everything is, which is fiction. It'll talk about how YOU did this, and now YOU feel terrible. So, notice it.

Now feel the sensation. Look at the world around you. Notice that right here, right now, no actual self can be found. In this moment, is there anything actually wrong?


Steve

[shivite]

hi Steve

this triggered a light bulb. Am at work and will write in detail later.

but in a nutshell - I have a desire to be better. I have a belief that I can be better thru reflective thinking. Mind over matter.

and hence, a reflective self has been created, etc, etc, etc ...

I think I need to move to a phase of "acceptance" of things as they are. yet, as i type this, its hard to imagine me getting to a state of mind of complacency ...

more to write later ...

but this desire to be better, the belief that one can be better is the key thats holding this process back

[blackh]

Hi Vikas,

Definitely! Processes of reflection and change do exist, but the experience right now can never be different from what it is.

Make sure you really do the exercise and report back - don't just think about it.


Steve

[shivite]

hi Steve ...

waiting for the feeling. Will report back after the exercise ...

thanks

[shivite]

hi Steve

been a while since i wrote. have tried to be in experiential mode as opposed to think mode. the intense self-reflection feelings have not returned, mostly because the circumstances that caused my reactions have changed.

however, on a few occasions have caught myself thinking about the 'future', as in security from a job perspective. Noticed that thoughts were making up stories of 'what might happen', etc. I tried exactly what you told me to do. which is, 'welcome the feeling and thank it for trying to protect me'. the very first time I did this, there was a strange reaction in the mind and body --- best described as 'confusion', as in not sure how to react to the expression of gratitude. I have tried to make this 'gratitude' a habit, as in 'thank the thoughts for their input', and have noticed that the feeling of confusion, which i felt the first time, has subsided.

I have reflected on the present 'moment' and find that there is nothing actually wrong in the present moment; and it could not be any different than it is.

more later ...

[blackh]

Hi Vikas,

Sounds like some insights and a bit of a shift. Confusion can be a sign of the mind letting go of illusions.

So tell me if any of these things are experienced as more than a mental fabrication/projection:

Is there a you that is the experiencer?
Is there a you that is the doer/chooser/controller?
Is there a you that does the thinking?
Is there a you in here separate from a world out there?
Is there a you that owns your life?
Is there a feeling or sense of self?


Steve

[shivite]

hi Steve

Is there a you that is the experiencer?
Is there a you that is the doer/chooser/controller?
Is there a you that does the thinking?

No. the experience/doer/thinker is a product of thought.

Is there a you in here separate from a world out there?

the separation exists in thoughts alone.

Is there a you that owns your life?

no

Is there a feeling or sense of self?

No

[blackh]

Hi Vikas,

Thank you for your answers.

I'll ask a few more questions just to make sure...

How does it feel to see that there's no self?
What are the differences compared to before we started this dialogue?
Do you have any doubts about it?

If you have an area of doubt we should look at it, especially if you feel that it's too much of an intellectual conclusion rather than something you really see.

If not, we could consider going to final questions. This is a standard set of questions we ask one the person has seen through the illusion to allow other guides to check the guide's work. One they're happy, that's the end of the formal guiding process. So we should only do this when you're sure.


Steve

[shivite]

hi Steve

How does it feel to see that there's no self?

I feel less fear and anxiety especially as it relates to the future.
Thoughts accept that there is no self and most of the feelings generated are of calmness.
There is no noticeable difference in input processed through senses – eyes, nose, ears, touch, etc. however, the feelings generated are of peace/calmness/oneness.
I feel humility.

What are the differences compared to before we started this dialogue?

People tell me that I have changed. Specifically, they say that I am more open, sharing, at peace and happier.
I can see thru the stories thoughts create.
I can see that the “reflective self” is nothing but a creation of thoughts.
When asked for input, or sometimes even proactively, I give my opinion to other people on personal matters; while in the past I would have thought to myself that this is none of my business.
My interactions with friends and family are engaging and not superficial.
I feel less judgmental and more compassionate towards all living things.
I used to live in the future, 2 steps ahead of the present moment. I now appreciate the present moment for what it is.
I can see that there is no control. Thoughts are like bodily functions.

Do you have any doubts about it?

Not really.
but a question: is it right to feel humility?
i think you are going to ask me: "who feels humility?"
my answer is that it is a feeling of being nothing significant in relative terms to the vastness of creation.

If you have an area of doubt we should look at it, especially if you feel that it's too much of an intellectual conclusion rather than something you really see.

its both an experiential confirmation and an intellectual conclusion.

[blackh]

Vikas,

Sounds like the no-self stuff is working great!

There is no noticeable difference in input processed through senses – eyes, nose, ears, touch, etc.

Nothing is really expected in this area. It's just that for me, the world sort of looked and felt different in some way that can't be described. Since I said this I've come to understand that this stuff is very individual.

but a question: is it right to feel humility?
i think you are going to ask me: "who feels humility?"
my answer is that it is a feeling of being nothing significant in relative terms to the vastness of creation.

I won't ask that question. :) Yes, I think a feeling of humility is common. I feel that way. How it manifests for me is that I feel like there's no "I" that's entitled to all sorts of things, and so I accept and appreciate and feel grateful for everyone and everything.

its both an experiential confirmation and an intellectual conclusion.

The main issue is if it's only understood intellectually but your life still sucks. That's clearly not the case for you.

Another thing that can happen is that an old concept "self" is replaced by a new concept "no self" and you end up in a bigger cage instead of being free. It's really important to take life as it is and treat concepts as useful fictions only. You seem to be fine in this regard too.

I'll run you past my fellow guides so they can check my work to make sure I haven't missed anything.


Steve

[blackh]

Vikas,

Can you tell me a bit about how the shift happened for you? How was the belief in the seperate self seen through? What was it like to see this?

This is just to make sure we've got everything covered.


Steve

[shivite]

hi Steve

there were many shifts/discoveries/experiences along the way, but the last shift was seeing that the "reflective self", i was clinging on to, was nothing more than a product of thoughts. the reflective self was almost additive; one to rely on for security, comfort, etc. seeing this thru was triggered by putting your advice, "to thank the thoughts for their input", into practice. Initially, there was confusion; "who is thanking whom"; thoughts like "listen to me, don't thank me". gradually, the reflective self has taken a back seat. it just is.

[shivite]

that should say "addictive" instead of "additive"