Anyone want to discuss anything?

[Rikki]

I've been out a year now and have some experience. Come if you have anything you'd like to ask..

[No I Matt]

Hi Rikki,

Yes, would appreciate some help with this.

[Rikki]

Ok Matt, great you're stepping forward and getting this done.

What do you know of what we do here, and what are your experiences?

[No I Matt]

Been reading up here and RT for a couple of months now. Began medititating 6 yrs ago, studing zen, then advaita. Have had a few 'glimpses' - these amazing 'A-ha' moments, what the buddhists might refer to as 'inferential cognitions of emptiness' - but they don't stick.

[No I Matt]

To provide a little more detail as to where I see myself, the following video that CFR posted shows an illustration at 2:22 into the video (and again at 3:30). See the tables appear to be different lengths, then he shows they are the same length. We know they are the same..but the mind won't let you see it that way again..

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_ask ... sions.html

"it's as if you haven't learned anything in the last minute...you can't look at this and say "Ok, now I see Reality as it is".

So, I'm not sure what I'm doing or not doing wrong. Or maybe "I'm" not doing anything wrong.

Thanks

[Rikki]

Ok so you aren't able to make it 'stick'?

Can you explain what it's like when you have these 'aha' moments, and what happens when you 'lose' it again please Matt?

[No I Matt]

The a-ha moment is like a moment of clarity where I 'get it' for a short while. The first time this happened I was just meditating next to my dad when he was in the ER, and I realized everything is happening as it is - without me to make anything happen. It's almost like the thought just pops into my head, I'm not trying to make it happen...seems spontaneous...but brief..lol.

More recently i've been focused on writing out the questions i've seen asked on this forum. The questions are about controlling thoughts, bodily functions, life events, etc. and my answers.

Also, I've thrown in subject-object investigations/emptiness teachings from the buddhists.

One a-ha was reading Chandrakirti stating that the 'I' is an imputed form. I got it. I was like 'Yeah! The 'I' is a mentation, that doesnt really exist! Its just a name given to a form"...and then "I'm" back.

So, ultimately, the a-ha's seem to happen upon what i would call intense investigation. I admit that i conceptually understand that "I" can't make it happen.Not sure if this requires more focus..more time..just not sure.

Thanks for your help Rikki. Bring the fire if you need to.

[Rikki]

Ok well you seem to be trying to 'get there' with thought. Working the angles so to speak and intellectualizing this.

There comes a time when you must leave that intellectual stuff aside and look where the arrow points you. Now, you say you've read/heard about 'I' but the difference is SEEING it yourself. Seeing that self is an illusion, not the belief that it is. Once it's seen, it can't be believed in again. Even if you wanted to.

What seems like a vast leap is really just a tiny step. A subtle change of perspective.

So is there a 'you' Matt? A self, a controller?

Don't think, look.

That's what's going to get you to see this. Only reply when you have looked...

[Rikki]

How's the looking going?

[No I Matt]

Frustrating..but had a bit of insight yesterday. Seeing that 'attention' - not 'me' - just goes where it wants. Its like it automatically follows any object or movement. "i" dont do anything to make it happen.

And if there's no me, then no-self is being seen and experienced right now. It seems like it just needs to be accepted i guess. Not sure. Still chewing on this.

[Rikki]

And if there's no me, then no-self is being seen and experienced right now. It seems like it just needs to be accepted i guess. Not sure. Still chewing on this.

It's not about accepting mate, not at all. It doesn't even need you to believe in it. Truth is truth without needing to be believed, ok? So drop that one.

I'm not even going to ramble on, let's keep the focus..

What happens when you try to locate 'me/self/a controller'?

Focus there ok dude...

[No I Matt]

Sorry for the delay..work got piled on.

What happens when you try to locate 'me/self/a controller'? Focus there ok dude...

Nothing happens when I try to locate a me. For a long time it was that I was looking for an 'I' or trying to look at what is behind the 'I-thought'. There was no answer, nothing there, but I was still looking..almost waiting for something to happen.

The other day, as I began to look again, my first thought was 'I am looking into this void/spaciousness'. Then, almost intuitively, there arose the thought 'who is looking'...then a subtle shift of 'its just looking' - it seems more like an answer or observation, than my previous looking.

Like you said though, it does still seem intellectual, like i have to try to follow the logic to get to that point. It doesnt seem like there has been that 'shift' yet.

[Rikki]

It's a very subtle shift. That's why you may be 'missing it'.

You start looking, then the mind jumps in and tries to understand, to intellectualize. Does that sound like what is happening?

If it is, realize that THAT too is just a thought. Some thoughts you're identifying with, others you can see them for what they are.

When you say you can't find this me/self/controller, that's good - there isn't one. So what is there? Well, you answered that, a void, space.

What did it feel like to gaze into that?

[No I Matt]

It's a very subtle shift. That's why you may be 'missing it'.

I spent most of the weekend looking and reading posts here and on RT. I think i noticed that I'm waiting for that moment of realization, that shift. I think I've been waiting for some type of 'mystical' or 'magical' shift. So I'm going to try to stop that expectation and waiting - or at least see it as something that is happening vs something that "I'm" doing.

You start looking, then the mind jumps in and tries to understand, to intellectualize. Does that sound like what is happening?

If it is, realize that THAT too is just a thought. Some thoughts you're identifying with, others you can see them for what they are.

Hmmm..not sure..will watch for that...and will try to see it as just thoughts arising..vs 'me' intellectualllizing - which I definitely have a tendency to do....analysis paralysis..lol.

When you say you can't find this me/self/controller, that's good - there isn't one. So what is there? Well, you answered that, a void, space.

What did it feel like to gaze into that?

The once or twice it happened it was peaceful, spacious, open - It was bad ass actually. It defintily seemed it happened without a 'me' there to experience it. It just was. But that was a brief moment and now 'I'm' back in the drama.

[Rikki]

I spent most of the weekend looking and reading posts here and on RT. I think i noticed that I'm waiting for that moment of realization, that shift. I think I've been waiting for some type of 'mystical' or 'magical' shift. So I'm going to try to stop that expectation and waiting - or at least see it as something that is happening vs something that "I'm" doing.

Definitely drop any expectation of what you think this is mate. Forget the word enlightenment or liberation too while you're at it.

What this essentially is, is looking at reality as it TRULY is. Without the mental filters getting in the way. That's liberation right there because the reality is, you aren't.

Hmmm..not sure..will watch for that...and will try to see it as just thoughts arising..vs 'me' intellectualllizing - which I definitely have a tendency to do....analysis paralysis..lol.

Yeah, trying to think it to death. But you won't find the answer in thought, although your mind would like it that way.

This is outside the mind if you like. Imagine switching your brain off, no thought, just looking at what is. Then switching your brain back on, and still having the ability to think when needed, but also seeing the mind as a tool and not as an identity.

The once or twice it happened it was peaceful, spacious, open - It was bad ass actually. It defintily seemed it happened without a 'me' there to experience it. It just was. But that was a brief moment and now 'I'm' back in the drama.

So thought took you over. That's what happened, you just got lost in thought again.

Thoughts can be very seductive, you'll start to look at one or two and see them for what they truly are, but then another one will grip you and pull you into identification again.

Just keep the focus on locating a self, and if you can't find one - great. What can you find?

Remember to drop expectation and just look at what is. It's that simple...