Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

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leah
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:05 pm

Hi Xain,

Is it normal to feel frustrated/angry during this guiding / process? I really feel that way this evening - like I'm supposed to find something I'm not finding.
2) In 'seeing' is there anything else to be found other than 'what can be seen' (what you described above)?
I really don't get this question. I think you asked me to leave everything else out and address one sense at a time. I find myself thinking about the seeing - so thoughts. "It's black - what else am I supposed to find here?" or "there's a blob" sort of a thing.
3) Can anything be found that is performing a function / action called 'seeing'?
No. It feels like there should be something behind my eyes performing the function but I can't find an actual thing or anything that I could describe that would be performing the function.
3) Can a pair of eyes, a body, a brain, an 'I', a person called Leah be found that is doing 'seeing'?
No. The seeing is just there.

Am I getting this allllll wrong? And why do I feel like I'm going to explode? :-)

Love,

Leah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:46 pm

This realisation is very very simple - So simple that it is completely overlooked.
No deep analysis is needed here.
And why do I feel like I'm going to explode?
Because you think it's more difficult than it is - It isn't - It's easy, simple and obvious :) Relax
No. It feels like there should be something behind my eyes performing the function but I can't find an actual thing or anything that I could describe that would be performing the function
You are racing ahead and grasping for answers. Relax. Just follows things along simply, one step at a time and all will become clear.

Let's delve a little deeper into this to try to help you.

Here is an explanation of how it might go. I don't want to feed you the answers here, so if anything seems 'wrong' or 'incorrect' in what I am describing then please let me know. (It's important)

As I stated, I wanted you to focus on SEEING only, and only answer these question from what can be found using that particular sense. I don't want you to answer using the other senses - Nor do I want you to speculate on the answers using memory or thinking about what the answer might be. Just answer from what appears clear to you from using the one sense.

I ask you to close your eyes and you do so.
You then describe what can be seen - And you see blackness etc and you describe it.
This is your description of 'what is seen'. Ok, good.

Then I ask you if there is anything else to be found in 'seeing' other than what you described.
Clearly the answer must be NO, since if you could find it you would have included it in your description and you didn't.
Sound fair?

Then I ask you if there is anything you can find performing a function called 'seeing'.
Clearly the answer must be NO, since if you could find it you would have included it in your description.

Then I ask you if you find a pair of eyes, a body, a brain, an 'I', a person called Leah be found that is doing 'seeing'?
Clearly the answer must be NO, since if you could find it you would have included it in your description.

How does that sound?

Xain ♥

leah
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:15 am

Hi Xain,

Relax - yes :-)
I ask you to close your eyes and you do so.
You then describe what can be seen - And you see blackness etc and you describe it.
This is your description of 'what is seen'. Ok, good.

Then I ask you if there is anything else to be found in 'seeing' other than what you described.
Clearly the answer must be NO, since if you could find it you would have included it in your description and you didn't.
Sound fair?

Then I ask you if there is anything you can find performing a function called 'seeing'.
Clearly the answer must be NO, since if you could find it you would have included it in your description.

Then I ask you if you find a pair of eyes, a body, a brain, an 'I', a person called Leah be found that is doing 'seeing'?
Clearly the answer must be NO, since if you could find it you would have included it in your description.

How does that sound?
This all sounds EXACTLY right to me. I don't and can't find anything. I was just thinking there must be something else for you to ask again.

There is nothing else to be found in seeing other than what I described.
There is nothing performing a function called seeing.
I don't find a pair of eyes, a body, a brain, an "I", a person called Leah doing the seeing.

Thanks, Xain.

Love,
Leah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:42 pm

Great! Relax and smile - You're on the right track and exactly where you need to be.

If you want to, you can do the exercise with your eyes open and see if you have the same results.
Is there anything else to be found other than 'what can be seen'.
I want you to be confident of what you find.

Ok, so as you have discovered in the sense of 'seeing' there is no 'I' to be found responsible.
Nor can the body be found responsible.
In fact, no separate thing is found doing 'seeing' at all! - There is just 'what is seen'.

Ok . . .
So let's say a thought arises for you that says 'I am seeing'.
What is your opinion of that thought, after doing this first exercise?

Xain ♥

leah
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:25 am

Hi Xain,

I did the exercise with my eyes open. I saw a glass of water, table, notebook, pen etc. But I still couldn't find anything else apart from what I was seeing / what is seen. I couldn't find anything performing a function called seeing. I couldn't find a pair of eyes, a body, an "I", a person called "Leah" doing the seeing.
So let's say a thought arises for you that says 'I am seeing'.
What is your opinion of that thought, after doing this first exercise?
My opinion is that it doesn't make sense to me. What is meant by "I" If I can't find anything that is an "I" doing any seeing?
"I am seeing" - WHAT is "I"? My overall feeling is that it doesn't make sense.

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:47 pm

So let's say a thought arises for you that says 'I am seeing'.
What is your opinion of that thought, after doing this first exercise?


My opinion is that it doesn't make sense to me. What is meant by "I" If I can't find anything that is an "I" doing any seeing?
"I am seeing" - WHAT is "I"? My overall feeling is that it doesn't make sense.
Exactly!
So . . . could it just be a thought / an idea . . . and nothing more than that . . . a belief . . . as opposed to 'I am seeing' being assumed to be absolutely true . . . until you examine it more closely?

Move on in exactly the same way to Hearing.

Just sit for a moment and listen to the sounds in the room or outside.
Inquire:
1) Is there anything to be found in hearing other than 'what can be heard'?
2) Can anything be found that is 'doing' the function called 'hearing'?
3) Can a pair of ears, a body, a brain, an 'I' called Leah . . . be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what is heard'.

Xain ♥

leah
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:40 am

Morning Xain,
So . . . could it just be a thought / an idea . . . and nothing more than that . . . a belief . . . as opposed to 'I am seeing' being assumed to be absolutely true . . . until you examine it more closely?
Yes, it could! An idea, that feels like a good way of describing it. Like an afterthought or something...
Move on in exactly the same way to Hearing.

Just sit for a moment and listen to the sounds in the room or outside.
Inquire:
1) Is there anything to be found in hearing other than 'what can be heard'?
2) Can anything be found that is 'doing' the function called 'hearing'?
3) Can a pair of ears, a body, a brain, an 'I' called Leah . . . be found doing the hearing? Or is there just 'what is heard'.
I did the same with hearing. I was by the beach so lots of nice sounds :-)

1. No, there was nothing to be found in hearing other than what could be heard.
2. No, I couldn't find anything 'doing" the function called hearing.
3. No, I couldn't find a pair of ears, a body, a brain, an "I" called Leah doing the hearing. There were all the sounds but I couldn't find a THING that was doing the hearing. Mental.

Thank you, Xain. I'm so grateful for your time on this.

Love,

Leah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:42 pm

Thank you, Xain. I'm so grateful for your time on this.
Hey, no problem at all.
In fact, once you start 'getting this' you will be able to do with sort of enquiry yourself - It will assist you in many other areas of your exploration.
No, I couldn't find a pair of ears, a body, a brain, an "I" called Leah doing the hearing. There were all the sounds but I couldn't find a THING that was doing the hearing. Mental.
It's barking mad, isn't it :-)
Again, could it be just an idea / a belief / that there is an 'I' hearing?

Moving on to 'feeling' in the same way.
It may be best to close your eyes for this one, as the sense of 'seeing' is very strong and ties us in quite strongly to the belief that there is a world of objects 'out there' being experienced.

Rest your hand on a flat surface like a table or a desk.
Now I want you to 'go to' the feeling that we would normally call 'hand on desk' with eyes closed, and see what can be found.

1) Exactly how many things can you find. You can find 'a sensation' no doubt - Anything else?
2) Can you find a body (a hand) actively performing a function called 'feeling'?
3) Can you find an 'I', or a 'Leah' feeling something?

Pressing forward, what about the phrase 'I am feeling a desk' - What do you make of that from what you can find in the experiment?

Xain ♥

leah
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:28 pm

Hi Xain,
Again, could it be just an idea / a belief / that there is an 'I' hearing?
Yes, it totally could!
Now I want you to 'go to' the feeling that we would normally call 'hand on desk' with eyes closed, and see what can be found.
I put my hand on the wooden table outside. It's really sunny today so I found a feeling of warmth and also the rough the texture of the table. Also like a slight pulsating sensation on my palm.
1) Exactly how many things can you find. You can find 'a sensation' no doubt - Anything else?
2) Can you find a body (a hand) actively performing a function called 'feeling'?
3) Can you find an 'I', or a 'Leah' feeling something?
1. Just the feelings/sensations: warmth/texture of the table/pulsating.

2. At first it felt like I could find my hand doing the feeling - it really felt like the feeling was very closely linked somehow to my hand. But the longer I left it (my hand) there the more that went away and it didn't feel like it was related to my hand but there was just the heat/texture/pulsating.

3. No 'I' or 'Leah' to be found feeling something.

Love,

Leah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:19 pm

Good stuff.
At first it felt like I could find my hand doing the feeling - it really felt like the feeling was very closely linked somehow to my hand. But the longer I left it (my hand) there the more that went away and it didn't feel like it was related to my hand but there was just the heat/texture/pulsating.
With this inquiry, there may be a temptation (with eyes closed) to IMAGINE a hand feeling a surface. We are so used to thinking 'well that's what is going on', we generate an imagined image of the body.
But check carefully. Is there a hand and a table being found as two separate things in 'feeling' itself, one 'doing' the feeling, and the other 'being felt'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?

Perhaps the more you focussed on the sensation, the more the 'link' between an imagined body/hand and the sensation dropped away. You just focussed on the sensation itself.

I will let you check the senses of smell and taste yourself in exactly the same way if you want to - These are weaker senses so don't demand as much attention.

Moving on then, if I were to put all the senses together now - 'Seeing', 'Hearing', 'Feeling', 'Tasting' and 'Smelling' and call that 'Experiencing'; This one word used to sum up all the senses together, sit and have a look and see what you find now.

1) Is there anything to be found in 'Experiencing' other than 'The Current Experience'?
Really check for yourself - Don't rush this step - Look and see if this is true or not. Really make sure.

2) Can anything be found 'doing experiencing', or is the only thing to find 'The Current Experience'?
Again - Really check - Consider this deeply.

3) Is there a body or an 'I', a 'Leah' to be found experiencing right now (performing the function of 'experiencing'?
Concentrate specifically on anything you can find 'doing it'. Can anything be found?
Or is there just 'the current experience'?

So again, in a similar way as before . . .
Take the phrase or thought / idea / belief 'I am experiencing' - How do you view that phrase now?
What is this 'I' in the phrase?

You appear to be making good progress - Can you see how something is being completely overlooked here?
Certain thoughts and beliefs are taken as absolutely true without questioning them?

Xain ♥

leah
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:19 am

Hi Xain,
Is there a hand and a table being found as two separate things in 'feeling' itself, one 'doing' the feeling, and the other 'being felt'? Or is there just 'a sensation'?
This bit that you said here really helped. No, only a sensation.
1) Is there anything to be found in 'Experiencing' other than 'The Current Experience'?
Really check for yourself - Don't rush this step - Look and see if this is true or not. Really make sure.
No, nothing. Only the current experience.
2) Can anything be found 'doing experiencing', or is the only thing to find 'The Current Experience'?
Again - Really check - Consider this deeply.
No, again, only the current experience.
3) Is there a body or an 'I', a 'Leah' to be found experiencing right now (performing the function of 'experiencing'?
Concentrate specifically on anything you can find 'doing it'. Can anything be found?
Or is there just 'the current experience'?
I can't find anything 'doing it'. I looked and I couldn't find a body or an 'I' or a 'Leah' 'doing it'.
So again, in a similar way as before . . .
Take the phrase or thought / idea / belief 'I am experiencing' - How do you view that phrase now?
What is this 'I' in the phrase?
It doesn't make sense in the way it's made sense before - in that there is no 'I' in the way I've thought of 'I' all this time to be doing any experiencing. But it does make sense in another way - like it's a convenient way of describing what's going on. So then it would just be language.

Love,

Leah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:53 am

It doesn't make sense in the way it's made sense before - in that there is no 'I' in the way I've thought of 'I' all this time to be doing any experiencing. But it does make sense in another way - like it's a convenient way of describing what's going on. So then it would just be language.
♥ Yes! Exactly!

There is nothing inherently wrong the phrase or idea 'I am experiencing' . . . but it's only a description!
It's a language convenience.
We assume these ideas and beliefs are absolutely true, but when we look we see they are not accurate in the way we thought they were. 'Eyes are seeing', 'Body is doing the feeling', 'I am hearing' . . . all just convenient ideas for communication. But nothing more than that! No 'real I there as you've thought there was all this time!

Well done!

Let's go even deeper now.

We've examined the senses, so the next one to do is choice and control.
Approach this is exactly the same way as we have done with the other exercises - It's the same thing.

As you sit there, choose one of your hands - It doesn't matter which one.
When you feel you wish to, raise that hand in the air.

Do this exercise as many times as you like, but each time inquire:

1) What can be found that is in control of the hand rising in the air?
What can be found making the muscles contract and the limb move?
What is making it do that?
Don't try to think what the right answer might be but instead use the senses and try to FIND what is causing that to happen.
2) Can an 'I', a Leah be found that is doing that? What can be found?

What about the phrase 'I am moving the body', or 'I am in control of this hand'.
What is this 'I'? Something that can be located? Or just like you said before maybe, a convenience of language?

Xain ♥

leah
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Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby leah » Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:20 pm

Hi Xain,
1) What can be found that is in control of the hand rising in the air?
What can be found making the muscles contract and the limb move?
What is making it do that?
Don't try to think what the right answer might be but instead use the senses and try to FIND what is causing that to happen.
I can't FIND anything. I'm looking for an actual thing to be found, I can't. There's the movement but I can't find a 'thing' that's making that happen.
2) Can an 'I', a Leah be found that is doing that? What can be found?
No. No 'I', no 'Leah' to be found doing that. What can be found is the movement of my arm.
What about the phrase 'I am moving the body', or 'I am in control of this hand'.
What is this 'I'? Something that can be located? Or just like you said before maybe, a convenience of language?
Since I can't find an 'I', a 'Leah' or any other thing that's making it happen, there's a sense that it's an automatic process (brain/neurones/impulses?? - no idea) and that 'I am moving the body' is just again a convenient way of describing that process.

Love,

Leah

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:13 pm

Since I can't find an 'I', a 'Leah' or any other thing that's making it happen, there's a sense that it's an automatic process (brain/neurones/impulses?? - no idea) and that 'I am moving the body' is just again a convenient way of describing that process.
Well did you actually find brain/neurones and impulses? Or are these ideas about what might be responsible?
You say no 'I' / 'Leah' was found either - So could 'I am moving my arm' or 'Leah is making this body move' but just an idea too? Nothing more than a language convenience?
Could the arm rising simply 'be happening' without a separate 'I' doing it?

A further consideration in this exercise.

1) What can you find CHOOSING the hand. What exactly is making that choice.
Again, try not speculate or guess - Instead try to FIND what is making the choice.
2) Do you find a brain, a body, an 'I' / Leah that is actively doing a process called 'choosing'.

If not, what could this mean?
Is there an 'I' here right now making the body move?
Is there an 'I' here right now making choices?

Xain ♥

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Xain
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Re: Ready for a guide and would be grateful for your support

Postby Xain » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Everything OK?
Our arrangement was to reply at least once each day.
If there is fear or confusion arising, just let me know.

Xain ♥


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