Looking for a guide

[Rudra]

Is awareness what you are? Really?

I don't know how to put words on this. Feelings, perception, experiences happens, they appear like "objects" and disappear. The perception or,knowing of the objects just happens by itself. If this is what you call awareness, then awareness is. But I am not awareness in the idea of I am awareness aware of this and that. Objects appear and disappear within awareness. The sense of being a separate self also appears as an object within awareness. And, to quote Sal Poe, there is a knowing and this knowing knows itself.

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

I can find a sense of self, which is the idea that there is an experiencer, it is based on the interpretation that because perception appears "from" a certain point of view, that point of view must be owned by a self. This self is just a misunderstanding.

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

Even if "I" would love to find this one I just can't find it. Thoughts can only generate the illusion of control. For example, a thought can appear about what I will say in 5 min, even if I say something different, I can believe that I've been thinking before I speak. The truth is thoughts appear, talking happens and nobody is in charge.

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations?

Exactly. There is nothing that proves that there is a body :).

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

I don't understand. I don't know what the 5 sens are made for. They are just happening.

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?

No

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

Not a doubt, but it still happens very often that I make direct experience of the illusion of a separate self. Then after some time it's recognized again that it's just a thought running.So, when separation is not seen through, doubts can be believed in.

Also, all of this changes slowly my response to fear : now I look at what it protects and it always protects the idea of a separate self controlling this or that.

And perceptions seems to be stronger, like if life was experienced much more strongly. That's why I thought I was experiencing vibration or waves, it's just stronger perceptions.

I will go through the next 6 questions a bit later this week.

Thanks a lot for your support !!

[0kay]

It´s a pleasure, you are welcome.

[Rudra]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, no separate entity.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is a thought or a combination of thoughts that create the illusion that there is somebody in here controlling the situation and making choices. The illusion is given "density" by being associated with sensations / perceptions / emotions.

For me it starts when there is an experience which is judged to be negative and with the desire to change that experience. Actually, it is mainly with the experience of fear.

Fear rises. If observe in direct experience, then all is fine, it's just another object perceived. A thought / desire to resist the fear might appear and if not observed in direct experience as a thought, then it triggers the illusion of self, the fear becoming My fear, and Me having to solve the fear problem.

The same happens with positive experiences, instead of wanting them to go the desire it to make them last or repeat themselves.

Then, confusion is often linked with the illusion of self, at least for me. Not knowing what to do, feeling lost and confused.

So, the self is like a filter, it gives the illusion of somebody whose in charge, but it doesn't do anything. For example, I might think about what I will say to a person, in order to give myself the impression that I control my talking ability. In reality, it's only crap, all of it happens by itself.

Then, without anybody doing anything, the illusion stops and direct observation without the filter of self. I can see that the less it's believed in the less strong the illusion of self is.

The best time for the moment for direct observation to kick in easily is while I am driving. Suddenly, driving just happens by itself, the images change but nothing moves.

But I want to say that I can experience the fact that the illusion has not fully dropped, as the fear still has an impact everyday and because I usually wake up very much in the illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Overall, perceptions, feelings seem stronger, brighter. The difference is less confusion in general (even if the last 3 days have been a bit crazy with tons of fear and tons of Self).

Direct experience is recognized and re cognized for what it is. I can see that it's pointless to try to solve that Me problems because it's only problem is that it does not acknowledge direct experience. And in direct experience, no self = no problems.

Sometimes the body relaxes from the diminution of tension, as if less ME was light to bear.

I get less and less stuck in the Me story wanting to solve itself. In particular, I know that fear is only protecting an illusion.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The kick was when 0kay asked me to check if Direct Experience could be enough, if it could be that simple. To accept that it is that simple.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

So, before action there is an impulse to do this thing. That impulse appears that's all. It might be a response to another thing like if there is an itchy sensation in the leg then the impulse to scratch might appear.

So, basically there is nothing like free will or choice or control. All that can be experienced is the illusion of free will through the filter of Self.

Again, this is the aspect that triggers the most fear. The illusion of control is still enjoyed. :)

6) Anything to add?

To me it's like going back and forth the gateless gate again and again and again. Fear and control are the subjects on which I tend to have more trouble to observe through direct experience but it's better that in the past (during a silent retreat I had panic attacks). So, I guess it's the time it takes for the system to get used to function without the tension of the illusion.

[0kay]

Thank you, let's see if other guide have questions.
If there is something to look for meanwhile, please ask.

[Rudra]

Thanks. I continue to observe. The interesting thing is that behaviors I've tried to change in the past without success are seen as resistance thoughts against direct experience. Then direct experience changes those behaviors in the sense that it takes their meaning and their power away. They don't matter anymore.

Life is becoming quite intense, I have lots of energy. I don't sleep much but it seems to be ok.

[Ilona]

Hi Rudra,

I will be taking over here from Okay and continue chatting with you.

you say:

But I want to say that I can experience the fact that the illusion has not fully dropped, as the fear still has an impact everyday and because I usually wake up very much in the illusion.

how do you imagine that illusion of self drops, what would need to happen? what is the i that is trapped in illusion'?

I get less and less stuck in the Me story wanting to solve itself. In particular, I know that fear is only protecting an illusion.

yes, the fear is protecting the illusion. can you ask the fear to come closer, really feel it, watch it in the body, then look behind it, what is there?

take a peek and write what you find out.

sending love.

[Rudra]

Hi Rudra,
I will be taking over here from Okay and continue chatting with you.
how do you imagine that illusion of self drops, what would need to happen? what is the i that is trapped in illusion'?

Hi Ilona
Glad to continue.
I imagine that the fear is less present (and seen for what it is, which is not fear) and that the idea of "I am doing this" is most often perceived for what it is. It would not change anything about what's happening. It would not change anything about what I am as I am nothing that I can perceive.

There is no I trapped, the illusion is like a filter that makes the illusion of an I that is trapped. So, I guess the illusion drops when it drops, it is just seen more and more for what it is. It's like changing a strong habit, it just takes time and, in this case, there is nothing that can be done to change the habit, it has to be seen again and again for what it is until it has no more juice.

I will say more about fear tomorrow, after I've spent time with it as you mentioned.

With love,

Manou / Rudra

[Ilona]

So, I guess the illusion drops when it drops, it is just seen more and more for what it is.

yes, it is seen as an illusion and it is no longer convincing. that's all. the show continues, but it is not taken too seriously.

looking froward to read what you find behind the fear.

sending love

[Rudra]

Ok, first observations :

- As I mentioned earlier, in direct experience, fear doesn't exist. It is just the naming of various sensations.

- Now, triggered by your advise, attention went closer to the sensations. The sensations became more intense or were felt more intensively and the closer attention gets the less the sensation would be perceived as negative.

-Behind fear there is overwhelming sensations, like the raw flow of life. It's like being on LSD (even if I've never had LSD ;) ). Absolute loss of the illusion of control lies there. It's death but it's a very happy, joyful, crazy death.

It has to be observed more and more (first I could only observe that deep relaxing in bed, now it happens during daytime).

With love,

Manou

[Ilona]

- Now, triggered by your advise, attention went closer to the sensations. The sensations became more intense or were felt more intensively and the closer attention gets the less the sensation would be perceived as negative.

very nice! you can see that any sensations, when focused on them transform, that's the power of applied focus. whatever focus goes on, that intensifies and becomes more detailed.

-Behind fear there is overwhelming sensations, like the raw flow of life. It's like being on LSD (even if I've never had LSD ;) ). Absolute loss of the illusion of control lies there. It's death but it's a very happy, joyful, crazy death.

look at fear as at a protection mechanism, it is only trying to help and protect. it's bringing up sensations that give a signal to turn away, run, evade. so look behind it again, does raw flow of life need to be protected?

It has to be observed more and more (first I could only observe that deep relaxing in bed, now it happens during daytime).

excellent. write about what has changed in your normal everyday ordinary life since you started this conversation. just look back and see if anything looks different now.

sending love

[Rudra]

so look behind it again, does raw flow of life need to be protected?

No, it doesn't. Not easy to observe as it triggers all kind of stories. I would say fear protects "ME" from the raw flow of life. And, I guess that as long as fear has an influence it means the "ME" story is running more or less fully.
That's why it's so demanding to go behind fear.

I like your description of fear very much. It's exactly that, a signal to run away. An urge to escape.

I must say that today I feel a bit fucked up and there is a lot of negativity, doubt, losing faith in the process. So, I guess "I" want to go through the gateless gate...

About what have changed I'm not sure because of the negativity. I'll see again through that.

Love,

[Rudra]

Here we are, tons of I stories... I getting crazy with this.

I must say that I'm still completely paralyzed by fear. I haven't done anything for one month.

I've learned fear management exercises recently, they are helping me being active in spite of fear. But they seem a bit contrary to direct experience as it's a way to get away from fear not to go behind. So, I stopped those exercises (mostly it is the haka from the Maori).

Now I'm exhausted (I don't sleep much), confusion, etc...

[Rudra]

What happens is that fear becomes overwhelming and I forget everything about direct experience or whatever....

And then, if anything negative happens, it freaks me out because perception is very sensitive and focus is strong...

Not the first time I'm here. Then I really want to run away and turn the speakers off.

[Ilona]

Yes, the fear protects 'me' from being found out what it really is.
Here is an article that I think will be helpful for you.

http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... ation.html

After you read it, have a look again, what is behind the fear, that needs to be protected and from what?
Is there a feeler of fear?
Is there a perceiver of sensation?
What do you find?

Ps. Direct experience is simply what is happening here and now, always. Just that. There is nothing to fear in the moment, or is there?

Sending love

[Rudra]

Hey,

Thanks for the text. It takes me a little time to digest all. I will answer to you tomorrow.

Love,

R-M