Request to be guided to continue the process

[Alexw]

Hi Yuki,

My answer would be "a thought".

A thought... true if you refer to the separate, illusory self which arises as a conceptual structure in thought, yes.

Once the identification with this thought based, conventional self, is seen through, what remains? Anything? No thing but still something?

Some traditions speak of the Self (vs self), God, Tao, true nature whatever... is there something like that to be found?
Or maybe these terms are just a label for this knowingness, this presence, a way to name This that has no name, but is all names...

When you look or listen then there is no looker, no listener, no separate self listening... right..? but still, there is this presence that is not an object, that is more of an absence in which everything seems to arise...

When you wrote this last post... who wrote it? Who was the one writing it? You?
Who came up with the thought "I am a thought"?

Now... please tell me in all honesty:
What are you really sure of?
You know that you exist, right?
You might not know in which way, but you know that you are.
Agree?

So.. In which way do you exist? Are you only a thought?

Alex

[yuksaka]

Hi Alex,

Once the identification with this thought based, conventional self, is seen through, what remains? Anything? No thing but still something?

Some traditions speak of the Self (vs self), God, Tao, true nature whatever... is there something like that to be found?
Or maybe these terms are just a label for this knowingness, this presence, a way to name This that has no name, but is all names...

When you look or listen then there is no looker, no listener, no separate self listening... right..? but still, there is this presence that is not an object, that is more of an absence in which everything seems to arise...

What remains is just experiencing, or experience happening. I guess you can call this knowingness, presence, or existence. It's a knowingness without a separate knower, a presence without a separate thing being present, or a existence without a separate thing existing.

When you wrote this last post... who wrote it? Who was the one writing it? You?
Who came up with the thought "I am a thought"?

Thought just arose. There was simply writing happening. Hmm okay, so the whole experience of writing and thinking was being known. Therefore, there was a knowing of it. But this knowingness is not separate from the experience. Knowingness and the experience are one and the same thing.

Now... please tell me in all honesty:
What are you really sure of?
You know that you exist, right?
You might not know in which way, but you know that you are.
Agree?

So.. In which way do you exist? Are you only a thought?

What I can really be sure of is that there is experiencing happening. But...right.. who is it that is sure of it? I guess I could only say that it is the experiencing itself that is sure of its experiencing. So, I guess I could say that I exist as this experiencing, not separate from it...or in another words, I exist as the knowingness in this experiencing not separate from this experiencing. So, the certitude does not come from thought, but from the experience itself.

Thanks.

Yuki

[Alexw]

Hi Yuki,

Yes, I agree with what you say.

How does this translate into your daily life?
Are there any fears? What happens when you are angry with people or yourself?
Do these sort of happenings generate a certain doubt of what has been seen/understood?

Do you feel you have integrated this into your conventional way of being?
How do you feel right now?

Alex

[yuksaka]

Hi Alex,

How does this translate into your daily life?
Are there any fears? What happens when you are angry with people or yourself?

Fear, anger and confusion does come up in daily life, although they are in a more subtle form than before and they come up especially when I come into contact with other people. They are examined and found to be nothing but a specific story wrapped around the "I" and "others" and enforced by specific sensation in the body (as well as from the reaction of others).

Do these sort of happenings generate a certain doubt of what has been seen/understood?

Sometimes I do get sucked into believing in the story that is operating in these happenings. However, there is soon an examination and consequent recognition of the underlying story of separation. So, they are actually more of a chance to see the mechanism of separation in operation and to see the truth of what has been seen rather than to generate a doubt.

Do you feel you have integrated this into your conventional way of being?
How do you feel right now?

In many ways, I react to the things I reacted to before. But there is definitely a lightness to it because the underlying mechanism is seen and understood.

Thanks.

Yuki

[Alexw]

Hi Yuki,

A question from another guide:
So what is it that you have seen beyond any question? Please speak from the heart.

Alex

[yuksaka]

Hi Alex,

A question from another guide:
So what is it that you have seen beyond any question? Please speak from the heart.

What I have seen beyond any question is that "I" does not exist outside of thought. It is quite a shock (for an imagined "I") to understand now that all the suffering, the thick wall that I felt between me and the world, the rebelling against the conventional world, the contorted efforts to "get it", the seeking for truth, etc., in short, what was perceived to be "my life", have never taken and do never take place outside of imagination. Without the stories, what remains, and what has always and only been is just this experiencing. To the mind, that there is no person that experiences, no thing to experience, no world that is being experienced, no me or you in experience.....and yet there is and only THIS! is just a great mystery. Since the last post regarding what remains beyond separation, the mystery and perhaps even humor of this is quietly dawning on me (of course who is it other than the imagined "I" that finds this mysterious or humorous... but I hope you see my point). In many ways, things are the same as it always have been, but there is a sense of relief and lightness that I have not felt in recent years due to constant seeking.

Much gratitude for your guidance and for this process that is offered by LU.

Thank you.
Yuki

[Alexw]

Hi Yuki,

Thank you! The pleasure was all mine!

I think we have reached the end of our dialogue on this forum, but I would like to invite you to join the LU community on Facebook. There are many different groups and many great people that also have gone through this process and now form a living community on FB.
If you have a FB account, please send me a private message on this forum with a link to your FB page so I can add you to the LU Aftercare group (from there you can choose which other groups to join).

All the best and cu online,
Alex