wow, just typed a huge reply and site logged me off and lost the whole thing.
Let's try again. Maybe I can summarize.
Who puts it to rest, at what point does nature take over, or at what point do you take over from nature? Who takes over from nature? Who is using that conscious mind? Who owns it?
The ego is put to rest. Nature needs not take over, it was always in charge. It was the Ego's illusion that it had any control at all. The brain contains the conscious mind, I own the brain, when the brain dies, I die and so does the conscious mind. Now you got me philosophizing, but you gotta know, I speak from experience. I have had numerous out-of-body experiences where I saw the map to my consciousness quite clearly.
I don't know if you've awakened as you said, it's certainly not impossible. But if so, you seem to have hit snooze.
A bit aggressive don't you think. Pratitya, out of curiosity, what do you think awakening is exactly?
Now whether you're sleeping or snoozing, what you need to do is keep looking at all those places you put that "I". Look at your thoughts, or at the stuff you write, you know how to do both. And see where the "I" pops up, or where there is an image of "you" doing something. Catch those, and then check your experience to see if you can find this supposed "I" that the thought claims to be referencing. Right now, for example, who is reading this post? Whose voice is this in your head?
Do this everytime you catch a self-referential thought. Look at what is happening in that moment and where "you" is. Take as much or as little time as you need, do it as often as you need, let us know what you see.
I'm just going to go stream of consciousness here. What I'm experiencing when I read the above text is this. I'm taking a five year back-step just to answer these questions. I've already been there done that. Now when I start asking "I" questions, I get this jerking sensation in my core and out of the crown of my head, a giant spot light hits the inside of my head and I am catapulted into a resonating white/black infinite void where an overwhelming peace washes over me and a buzzing starts to dissolve my body until I'm free of it and just consciousness floating. Eventually I'll get pulled into orbit by some very real dream/drama, sometimes gruesome, sometimes angelic, and I'll get mired in the drama, getting sucked in deeper and deeper, and eventually I'll be reminded of the "I" question or some other spiritual practice and I'll again be jettisoned into the void. This all happens instantaneously, although sometimes it can feel like weeks. Tracking your thoughts is so amateur, breaking it down is for the novice, it happens so quickly for me, two mutters of a mantra and I'm off to heaven.
This self-referential loop is a paradox, there is no answer, no solution, you literally cannot solve for it. maybe you haven't taken it that far, maybe what I'm saying is too advanced for you. Take a computer and ask it to prove it's own existence, it will overheat and burst into flames. That's literally my internal experience of the question. It's a quick way to get high. Have a chuckle over the cosmic joke. But the high diminishes like any other high. The first high was the best. Are these guys beginners? They're still stuck in Maharshi-ism. Are they students posing as teachers? maybe I'm the teacher posing as a student. I don't have to prove myself to anyone, my awakenings are my own and non-transferable. If they don't understand what I'm saying it's probably because they haven't been there yet themselves. I feel like a reluctant messiah, Look at what they did to Jesus when he tried to teach. But then I'm reminded of my bodhisattva vow, no liberation till all is liberated. There is no you, no me, we are all here trying for the same thing. Be patient Buddhawarrior, answer the questions for the benefit of all sentient beings.
There is a part of me that is frustrated, but I'm not angry, a bit detached actually, like someone hired an actor to play the role of frustrated ranter.
But here's the deal. Stop asking silly questions. The "I" paradox is just the beginning. Yes, we've seen past it, so now what? Create a forum, create a hierarchy, those who are in's and those who are out's, have the in's haze the out's? Create a dogma, and then a religion?
This is a question for Ingen, Ilona, and Pratitya. What is your purpose here? Is it to be like computer program pointing back to the "i" everytime it's mentioned? Because that's old and unoriginal. Ingen said it best.
Oh please, that was lame. You can copy this sentence out of any vaguely spiritual book or website.
If you can't see past your own game, you will not get anywhere.
My goal here is to help and be helped. I have real experience, and real knowledge and have a lot to bring to the game. I Know I can help others and I know I can use the help myself. But what I want is real discussions, real solutions, opening up to each other and sharing our stories on the path. I'm done playing "I" games. I saw past that long ago. It's a great tool and I see it has been very helpful to many people here as it has been for me. But it's not the real thing. I have the rest of my life to live, and practical matters need practical solutions. If you are unconvinced by what I'm writing, it is probably because you haven't been there yourself. But being an automaton and asking the same questions will not help you, nor me.
anymore questions?
