I am ready

[Sarah7]

Hey Dani

I can stay there, but not for too long, because a thought appears and then another one and then I suddenly realize i got distracted by thoughts. I feels like nothing. No concerns, no problems, but no happiness or joy either.

OK - I want you to keep checking in on this noticing. See if its ever not accessible. See if its ever bothered. Notice what is felt when there - see if thought tries to explain or label it. Explore that - get curious about it.

I will keep doing this for a while let's see what happens.

Cool - have fun! :)
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Hi Sarah,

I can stay there, but not for too long, because a thought appears and then another one and then I suddenly realize i got distracted by thoughts. I feels like nothing. No concerns, no problems, but no happiness or joy either.

OK - I want you to keep checking in on this noticing. See if its ever not accessible. See if its ever bothered. Notice what is felt when there - see if thought tries to explain or label it. Explore that - get curious about it.

Just wanted to let you know that I keep doing this, and it's surprising what I find. When eyes are closed, there is only a picture of my body there(thought), and apart from hearing and sensing there is nothing, no body, no north, nor south, not outside, inside, up, down, nothing.... and a feeling of floating in my stomach.
I;ll keep checking.

Best,
Daniel

[Sarah7]

Lovely. Let me know what else you notice, if anything! Hugs S xxx

[arunachala]

HI Sarah,

So i've done this practices for a while now, but everything is the same.
I am aware that there might be an expectation that something needs to happen, however the "no self" is not seen yet.

What should I do in this case now?

Thanks,
Daniel

[Sarah7]

Hey Dani
Don't forget I want you to keep checking in on this noticing. See if its ever not accessible. See if its ever bothered. Notice what is felt when there - see if thought tries to explain or label it. Explore that - get curious about it. Is this what you are been checking?
You say you haven't found no self. Do you find a self? If so where and how is it experienced?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[Sarah7]

Second post Dani! One above too!
Explore the expectation. What are you expecting to happen. Explore why this isn't it. Pick it all apart. What is it made up of?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Hi Sarah,

Kept checking on this noticing. The expectation that disturbs it is that I am expecting to be able to end the flow of thoughts (which, is of course a thought only). And then, because I see this expectation as a thought only, a feeling of frustration occurs.

Somehow, deep inside, I realize that I do not want this search to finish once and for all, because the "me, Dani, who is searching for something" will come to an end. And since I realize this is also a thought, the feeling of frustration and impatience grows.
I think I am afraid of the end of knowing, and the more I stay in this fear, the stronger an identity will be built around it.

I;ll keep doing it though. Trying to see what's behind this frustration.

Thanks and best regards,
Dani

[Sarah7]

Hey Dani
An exercise for fear, but you can replace the word for frustration too.

In order to know fear we have to know resistance. Fear is resistance and ‘I don’t like’. Turn towards this feeling of fear so completely, so fully, allow it into you without the slightest trace of resistance – then turn around and see what remains of the fear. Can you allow this fear so completely, even with the possibility that it might annihilate you? Can you see that what you essentially are already allows that so fully without the slightest resistance to it? For who or what is it a problem that there is fear? Is it a problem for a single thought? What is it a problem for after that single thought has gone as it will? Another thought? In between the 2 thoughts is there a problem? Only thought is worried or threatened.
What is the sensation itself – striped of story – ignore the thoughts – look to the sensation only. The sensation changes continually or vibrates. Go into it. How old is the vibration, how long has this fear labelled sensation been? Has it just happened, does it have a history this sensation (apart from what thought gives it). How would you describe this sensation? Is it ever changing? Is it painful? Is it a problem this sensation? If thought says its unpleasant is it really? Go to the sensations and check under the label and story. Is unpleasantness added by thought? Look as new born baby – you know nothing but the current experience – is it really unpleasant? Go to the sensation – turn down the volume of the thoughts – is it a problem? If you don’t think about it, do you know that this sensation is something labelled or called fear? Is there any inherent fear in the sensation itself? Go to the sensation located at the sole of your foot – would you call that sensation fear? Or is it just a tingling vibration? Now compare these 2 sensations – the neutral soles of the feet to the labelled sensation in the chest or where ever – whats the difference between them? Don’t refer to the labels – just refer to the sensations. Is one more intense? Like a headache? If you don’t refer to your thoughts is it unpleasant? Could you live with this sensation for the rest of your life? Can you see how the thoughts get mixed up with the sensation? Is there an ‘I cant’ in there – that’s a thought. Is there an ‘I don’t want’ in there – that’s a thought. Go past the thought to the body sensation. Can you detect interpretation of the sensation? Thoughts again. Can you see the labels thought is trying to add - like – ‘this is fear’, ‘this is unpleasant’ or ‘this has been here for so long’? None of these thoughts actually belong to the sensation. See the thoughts but place them to one side. Without these thoughts would you know these sensations were fear? Same with the body – pure tingling sensation with thought overlaid. Is there resistance in the sensation or is it in the thought? The constriction is caused by thought. The tension is caused by thoughts. What happens as the sensation is relieved of its labels?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Hi Sarah,

Thanks for this exercise, i have been using it over and over, both for fear and frustration and it has been very insightful.
What stroke me is that when only observing the bodily sensation, without the additional labels, the sensation is quickly disappearing, as it can't live in the body without being fed by thought/label.

Now I am in a point where I don't know what to do, since as I see an expectation of something to happen, I immediately see it as a thought only, then frustration occurs, then I see frustration as a label/thought only, and then I am left like this, with nothing to do, nothing to try because no method will take me anywhere, as any "destination" is just an expectation/thought.
So having no options left, but at the same time not feeling stuck anymore, I will just go with the flow for now.

Best,
Dani

[Sarah7]

Hey Dani

What stroke me is that when only observing the bodily sensation, without the additional labels, the sensation is quickly disappearing, as it can't live in the body without being fed by thought/label.

Wonderful. Now look and see if there is a thought that says 'use this as a way of not experiencing fear and frustration, of getting rid of fear and frustration'. Is that thought or something like it there?

Now I am in a point where I don't know what to do, since as I see an expectation of something to happen, I immediately see it as a thought only, then frustration occurs, then I see frustration as a label/thought only, and then I am left like this, with nothing to do, nothing to try because no method will take me anywhere, as any "destination" is just an expectation/thought.

Excellent! Where did you expect to be? What did you expect to happen? What makes this NOT it?

So having no options left, but at the same time not feeling stuck anymore, I will just go with the flow for now.

How do you feel?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Hi Sarah,

What stroke me is that when only observing the bodily sensation, without the additional labels, the sensation is quickly disappearing, as it can't live in the body without being fed by thought/label.

Wonderful. Now look and see if there is a thought that says 'use this as a way of not experiencing fear and frustration, of getting rid of fear and frustration'. Is that thought or something like it there?

Yes, indeed this thought is there. And then, also the thought "how lucky I am to know this"...

Now I am in a point where I don't know what to do, since as I see an expectation of something to happen, I immediately see it as a thought only, then frustration occurs, then I see frustration as a label/thought only, and then I am left like this, with nothing to do, nothing to try because no method will take me anywhere, as any "destination" is just an expectation/thought.

Excellent! Where did you expect to be? What did you expect to happen? What makes this NOT it?

My biggest most concrete expectation, which I was expecting to use as a recognition/sign of "arrival" was that thoughts would stop flowing. But now, I see that this is also a thought, so I just let it be, as I have nothing I can do about it.

So having no options left, but at the same time not feeling stuck anymore, I will just go with the flow for now.

How do you feel?

I was trying to name how do I feel about this for the past few days, but nothing seems to be accurate enough. I feel like I am in the middle of the ocean, without any reference point to guide me or without any purpose or goal to strive for. Like an accepted desperation somehow. Whatever I was looking for, was just a thought, and even if what is described is real, there is no way I can "know" it with my mind, so there is nothing that can be done here. At the same time, another thought comes, asking: "are you sure you have done everything correctly up to this point?" so I checked again our entire conversation, re-doing the exercises again. Then another thought " are you sure you are not just giving up too soon"? And to this, the answer is: "I don't know, how can I know." and so I just continue my life...

Best,
Dani

[Sarah7]

Hey Dani

My biggest most concrete expectation, which I was expecting to use as a recognition/sign of "arrival" was that thoughts would stop flowing. But now, I see that this is also a thought, so I just let it be, as I have nothing I can do about it.

This is funny! A thought waiting for another thought! LOL. You say below words cant describe it - indeed! But they will have a go! I want you to watch and notice thoughts trying to grasp, trying to push you forward to the greener grass elsewhere but here. Each time you notice thought having a blah, blah, blah moment have a good laugh or smile! There is love there - each thought to protect, but protect what? :)

I was trying to name how do I feel about this for the past few days, but nothing seems to be accurate enough. I feel like I am in the middle of the ocean, without any reference point to guide me or without any purpose or goal to strive for. Like an accepted desperation somehow. Whatever I was looking for, was just a thought, and even if what is described is real, there is no way I can "know" it with my mind, so there is nothing that can be done here. At the same time, another thought comes, asking: "are you sure you have done everything correctly up to this point?" so I checked again our entire conversation, re-doing the exercises again. Then another thought " are you sure you are not just giving up too soon"? And to this, the answer is: "I don't know, how can I know." and so I just continue my life...

Have you read the quote at the bottom of all my posts?
Has seeking ceased?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Hi Sarah,

I took my time to answer your question, because the answer was not obvious from the start.

Has seeking ceased?

Honestly I don’t know how to answer this question.
Normally I would say YES, but I am still, from time to time, listening to some videos on the topic of enlightenment, despite the fact that I know it’s all thought made.
So in this case it would be a NO. But, If I ask myself "then what am I still searching for?", the first answer is "a method to get enlightenment". But instantly I realize that Is just a thought. So then what I am searching for is just "something to search for", because if the search ends, I am finished (this is also just a thought).
Then I feel frustration and fear. I look into it and I see it’s also a thought. it vanishes for a while, but this does not last for long, and the loop starts again. It’s like I don’t want to give up on something that doesn’t exist. It’s as ridiculous as it sounds, but it seems more powerful and persistent than expected.(implicitly I realize I was expecting something easy and powerless- a thought)
So, my answer is I really don’t know what is happening.

Best,
Dani

[Sarah7]

Hey Dani
You: Normally I would say YES, but I am still, from time to time, listening to some videos on the topic of enlightenment, despite the fact that I know it’s all thought made.
So in this case it would be a NO. But, If I ask myself "then what am I still searching for?", the first answer is "a method to get enlightenment". But instantly I realize that Is just a thought. So then what I am searching for is just "something to search for", because if the search ends, I am finished (this is also just a thought).

Me: Wonderul! Maybe I'm better asking have you any questions left? Or what are you waiting for?

You: Then I feel frustration and fear. I look into it and I see it’s also a thought. it vanishes for a while, but this does not last for long, and the loop starts again.

Me: is any state permanent?

You: It’s like I don’t want to give up on something that doesn’t exist. It’s as ridiculous as it sounds, but it seems more powerful and persistent than expected.(implicitly I realize I was expecting something easy and powerless- a thought)

Me: look into this too! It's kind of like peeling an onion Dani. One layer at a time. Did you see the below quote at the end/bottom of each of my posts? Does it make sense?

You: So, my answer is I really don’t know what is happening.

Me: excellent place to be!
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Hi Sarah,

Indeed, there is no state that is permanent.
I have read the quote, and it does make sense. But it is frustratingly simple and difficult to face, even though it is true.

The only question that I have and keeps on bothering me is "what was that which happened a while ago?"
And by that I mean the 1 week-long experience of no self, the feeling of real oneness, where I had no fear and no desire at all.

Now I am aware that it's just an expectation-thought, but it keeps bothering me: was it real? if yes, than how do I get it back? If not, then what was it? How come it seemed so real?

As I see now, everything around me, including ME is just a thought (a name and/or a form). So, my assumption is that it might have been real at that time, but just because I was clinging to it, it vanished. And now, it turned into the biggest trap, making me chase...well, a thought after all. (a thought chasing another thought-funny, isn't it)

That would be mainly it.

Thanks a lot Sarah for your effort and patience.
Seems like peeling an onion sometimes let's us with a bitter taste :D But you are a great guide for this!

Best regards,
Dani